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| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 885 Registered: 11-2005 |
The reasons given by Mrs. E. G. White for her disfellowship from the Methodist Episcopal Church in Chestnut Street, Maine, U.S.A. in September, 1843 (shortly before the first failure of William Miller's time setting) is one of the two earliest examples, based on contemporary documents, of Mrs. White's failing of prevarication. Prevarication is to act or speak evasively; to circle around the truth but not tell quite the whole truth; to state something so that superficially it is true, but information is withheld which causes the hearer to gain a false impression. Regarding the disfellowship of the Harmon family, which included herself as a girl of sixteen years, Mrs. White insisted in her biographical memoirs ("Spiritual Gifts," Vol. II, pp. 21-26) published in 1860 that the reasons for the disfellowship were:
The full truth of the matter is that the Harmon family was disfellowshipped for believing and teaching, in particular in the Methodist class meetings, the heretical time-setting doctrines of William Miller whose five "prophetic periods" all terminated in October, 1843. At that time the gospel dispensation would end, probation would be closed and the Day of Judgment would occur. See the full statement of the Stewards and leaders of the Chestnut Street M.E. Church. See http://www.truthorfables.com/Reasons_EGW_Harmon_family_disfellowshipped.htm What did the Methodist Church have to say? As you can see from the enclosed photocopies of the original church records all the members of the Harmon family were dismissed in September, 1843 from Chestnut Street Church on the grounds of breach of discipline. You will note too that Robert, Sr., Eunice and Sarah include the phrase under, peculiar circumstances. The reason for their dismissal was not that they preached the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is a tenant of our orthodox faith which is confirmed from the Articles of Religion 1784. Their dismissal was occasioned by their breach of discipline in proclaiming the views of William Miller's time setting. I read these entries to mean that after much quiet counsel to refrain from their disruptive behavior in church meetings the members of Chestnut Street Church took what they believed to be their only recourse, to dismiss the Harmon Family. See http://www.truthorfables.com/Methodist_Church_Letter.htm The truth is the road to freedom. Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 11 Months, and 18 Days since October 22, 1844 | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1601 Registered: 9-2006  |
Gilbert, Thank you for repeating this thread. I have had the feeling for the past couple days that I needed to review this, I suspect it has to do with rebellion, self justification and a particular warning in the Bible. Timothy II 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; Timothy II 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. Timothy II 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. What happened back there when these people refused those whom God had put over them for their own good? For example, the church I attend, I feel that I must come under the rule and authority of my pastor and elders and be submissive, I have been placed there for my own good, if I am rebuked because of something I teach, I must come under the authority and leadership of that church, it is not necessary that they be right on every single point of doctrine, they carry the message of salvation, the Pastor has been appointed to watch over the flock of which I am a part. Many of you may not agree with this, but I am satisfied in time that you will. Those people back there refused to bring themselves under the authority of sound doctrine, although I feel sure the particular church was gentle enough at first, they left the church no choice but to guard sound doctrine, it is Jesus own words that we can’t know the day nor the hour of his coming. Was the Methodist church correct on every single point of doctrine? I doubt it, but that didn’t reduce their authority and obligation to watch over the flock of God. What does God think of rebellion? Samuel I 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. Just read the first sentence. Never mind the prophets words for Saul in particular with the last sentence. So now look what happened! A whole religion based on nothing but thin air and I believe at this time that is what resulted from a family that refused to be corrected and taught sound doctrine. You think God ain’t serious folks? Look at the untold numbers of people that has come under false teaching because of one instance of rebellion and have missed the blessing God intended. Kings II 9:22 And it came to pass, when Joram saw Jehu, that he said, Is it peace, Jehu? And he answered, What peace, so long as the whoredoms of thy mother Jezebel and her witchcrafts are so many? What peace can a church have that is born in rebellion I just want to ask? Did any of you have peace there? Did any of you find peace and rest in that organization? I have the feeling this morning that right there, when they refused to come under the authority of those over them, refused sound doctrine and introduced to themselves fables was when the Adventist church was born. That is why I felt to revisit this. It is a very serious thing to rebel against sound doctrine. Nahum 3:4 Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the wellfavoured harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that selleth nations through her whoredoms, and families through her witchcrafts. Have a look at that one, the Adventist sell their sons and daughters to that mistress! Boy am I hittin it hard. Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Lookit, variance is listed along with witchcraft, heresies, but they did not repent of variance, but forced the church to expel them, de-fellowship them, think of the heartache that had to have caused those folk who had the responsibility to shepherd the flock of God at that time and place in history, but instead of gentle reproof bringing the desired result it was like wringing the nose of a junk yard dog. I am beginning to see the focus of what God has been bringing me into all these five years I think and it is not to give ministry to the one’s who are still steeped in the rebellion and refuse the truth that started so many years ago. These people have an obligation to come under the authority of the word of God and sound doctrine the same as any body else. They can wiggle and squirm and justify Ellen, Justify wiggling around plain scripture, waggling around their strange doctrine of investigative judgment, soul sleep, E.G superceding the Bible, sound as evangelical as they can make themselves sound and it ain’t gonna change nothin. Putting them into the evangelical churches is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I am done with feeling sorry for them other than any other sinner that hasn’t accepted the Lord and his word, I will evangelize them if I can, but I will not make a difference for them because of purposeful rebellion and ignorance, if they want to hang onto that there’s nothing I can do. I guess I’m just about done preaching, ya’ll have at it. It’s a good thing I don’t have a buncha Advents before me this morning, I would have plastered their ears down for them. River | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 531 Registered: 11-2004 |
Interesting link. I never realized Ellen's twin sister never bought into Millerism or SDAism and she was only 16 when her family was kicked out the the Methodist church. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6986 Registered: 12-2003  |
Wow. I just went to that link above, Gilbert. Amazing. I also didn't know that Ellen's twin Elizabeth didn't fall for Millerism or for Adventism. River, your post above is profound. You have made a powerful and accurate assessment. It's hard to see it this clearly when you're close to it--even when you're a "former". Intellectually I know you're right...but without your (and others') clarity from a slightly more objective position, I have trouble entegrating my objective evaluation with an emotional "owning" of the reality. I guess it's a little like the psychological "splits" people develop when they undergo abuse: they may objectively "know" what happened, but because the trauma was prolonged or intense, they split off from their feelings about it. They were taught that the abuse or the lies were "normal", and they never develop the appropriate responses of fear and anger that protect them from further abuse. I am becoming aware that my own feelings about the reality of Adventism was, in some ways, much like that. I appreciate your analyses, River, from a "never-been" persepctive. Your insights have been helpful to me in beginning to acknowledge at a more integrated level (not just an intellectual analysis) exactly what I was part of. I praise God for finding me and bringing me to Himself when I had no idea how darkened my understanding was. Yes, He found me when I was Adventist. No, He didn't leave me there! He is worthy of all our praise. Colleen | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-1999 |
River, you made some excellent points. The points you made are exactly the reason I became a very angry former adventist (for a while). My first anger was at EGW when I began to see her writings for the obvious lies they were. Then I was briefly angry at myself for ever believing any of it in the first place. That anger progressed to my parents. (Surely they had had doubts which they only suppressed and didn't pursue.) Then, my anger centered on my father--he joined the Adventist church when I was 10. (Why had he bought the lie? Why had he not stood strong in the Gospel message?) A resentment settled on my great-grandmother she was the relative that first joined the Adventist church and caused all the rest of us to be "born into it". Then, I was mad at God. Why did he allow me to grow up in this legalistic religion? I wallowed in self-pity for a while. It's not fair!!! My teenage years were a nightmare because of SDA beliefs. I was so weird because of the church I was "born into". I would have loved to have taken ballet. I desperately wanted to be an ice skater or a gymnast. Couldn't do it. Too many events happened on Saturday. For a while bitterness was like a cancer eating away at me. All the things I wasn't allowed to do in my high school years (cheer leading, pep squad, band, basketball, etc..)were impossible to go back and claim as a 30 something adult. I stepped out of Deception and into Grace only to be taken over by Anger, Bitterness and Resentment. (Out of one trap and into another.) In reading Rivers post about EGW, the first text which came to mind was from 2 Thes. 2 "...they refuse to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion so they will believe the lie." I don't feel sorry for the Adventist. Not at all. I no longer blame EGW for it all. Every single person in that organization has been given the opportunity of "TRUTH". God has brought it before them front and center and each and everyone of them that remains has made the decision to reject the truth. They have chosen, individually, to accept the lie and suppress the truth. | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 249 Registered: 5-2007 |
Had egw been present at Adam and Eve's fall from grace, the serpent could have used egw to spin his lies into "present truth". Obviously egw was used to spin Wm. Millers timesetting lies into "present truth" and "progressive revelation". | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6993 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lori, I agree with you. While I know that it takes sometimes years to process and acknowledge all the cognitive dissonance, bottom line: I HAD the Bible. To be sure, I understood the Bible to mean something OTHER than what it really said, but I know that God does bring truth within every person's ability to grasp. As Geoff Drew said in an article in Proclamation about a year ago, he now doesn't blame Adventism for his years in misery. He now sees the responsibility as his own. He had the Bible; he is the one who didn't submit to it. Your seeing Adventists in the 2 Thes. text, Lori, is ultimately true. To be sure, those who teach false doctrines will be judged more strictly than those who are led astray, but ultimately every individual is held responsible for either supressing the knowledge of God or embracing it. Romans 1:18-20 confirms this as well. I have watched relatives of mine go from uncertainty when confronted with certain Biblical truths to a complete resistance to knowing, privately chanting the mantra "To the law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to these, there is no light in them." To them the quote means the Decalogue and EGW. Period. They believe it, and that settles it. No amount of Bible-quoting or reading or discussion will sway them. We continue to pray for a miracle. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2208 Registered: 10-2004  |
Colleen, some Adventists even misquote Isaiah 8:20 as, "To the law and to the testimonies..." They really do think that it means the Decalogue ("the law") and Ellen ("the testimony/ies"). Incredible. Jeremy | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 539 Registered: 11-2004 |
Funny thing, - the "To the law and to the testimony" - the "law" in this verse is torah. I certainly don't see how one gets the decalogue out of this when you look at what the Hebrew word says. |
