| Author | Message | ||
| Mrzkingdom Registered user Username: Mrzkingdom Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2007 |
Listen to this. I have been gettting numerous emails about this from SDA's. http://www.lightsource.com/ministry/the_potters_house/20070620/ | ||
| Jonah Registered user Username: Jonah Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2006 |
Hi Mrz Kingdom Glad to see you here in the general forum. LOL. | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 117 Registered: 1-2007 |
Mrzkingdom I watched and thought he was great and dealt with the subject wonderfully. What are the emails from SDA's saying? Blessed (Message edited by blessed on October 03, 2007) | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 358 Registered: 11-2005 |
Mrzkingdom, I, too, have recieved this link in my email from numerous SDAs. Attached to it was this message: This is why we must be very careful who we listen to in our homes, car, etc. TD Jakes is speaking boldly and unbiblically against Sabbath keeping. Listen for yourself...but I challenge you to know the ends and outs of why we believe what we believe. "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20. Grace | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2185 Registered: 10-2004  |
Just to let everyone know who is not aware, T.D. Jakes is a Oneness (modalism) preacher, which means that he does not believe in the Trinity. Just like the Adventists do, he'll use the word "Trinity" while redefining it and actually denying it. Jeremy | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 128 Registered: 6-2007 |
I just watched that video. Very interesting. I am asking myself what would have happened if I had seen that 2 years ago, 5 years ago, 10 or even 20 years ago. Would I have listened? Would I have understood? Probably not... I was brainwashed. All of my life I viewed people who went to church on Sunday as "Sunday Keepers". I was right, they were wrong and how dare they claim Sunday as their sabbath? I never read anything, saw anything, heard anything or talked to anyone who told me other churches did not "keep" Sunday. I had absolutely NO concept of the sabbath as a shadow of Christ, NO concept of old and new covenant. I still cannot even begin to understand my own thinking for my entire life. How did I not see the truth? I am not big fan of Jakes, but I don't disagree with anything he said about the Sabbath. The only tiny little thing I didn't like was when he said his sunday school teacher pointed out that Sunday was now the christian sabbath. He did not appear to agree with that statement however. I am just sitting here wondering what I would have done with that information if I was given the opportunity in the past. If I am going to be honest, I'm sure I would have just pronounced him wrong and never gave it another thought. If I would have opened my Bible and studied for myself I would have found out a long time ago. It's still just so hard for me. Even watching that video makes me scream to myself "how could you not see the truth all your life". Once again, I ask God for peace, I will not sit here and try to understand the past, I will move on and be thankful every second of my life that I am out of that church. I'm going to go outside and water my flowers and think nice thoughts.  Laurie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6923 Registered: 12-2003  |
Laurie!! I'm laughing, and I SO understand! The embarrassing feeling of having been completely BLIND makes me feel like cringing. But God redeems even this--and I'm convinced He gave us flowers to water partly to provide us with persepctive. I resort to watering my flowers, too, when I need to think nice thoughts! I also liked the way Jakes preached about the Sabbath...but I did watch it with the caution in the back of my mind that he doesn't teach orthodox Christianity. He was right about the Sabbath, though, and he did a good job! Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1576 Registered: 9-2006  |
Didn't know Jakes was a oneness Jeremy, where do you get all this info, you must have a large noodle to hold all that, I think mine is shrinkin. River | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2188 Registered: 10-2004 |
Wait a second, the SDAs are spreading Jakes' message on the Sabbath for him? Hehe, I wonder if it might have an impact on some of them. Jeremy | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 247 Registered: 10-2006 |
For what it's worth, T.D. Jakes has written several books and his ministry has helped hundreds if not thousands of destitute young men find Christ. His doctrine may not be agreeable on some tenets, but he definitely knows who Jesus Christ is, and that is always his focus (at least in the books I've read}. steve | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1084 Registered: 10-2002  |
I haven't read much of Jakes or listened or watched his ministry. I haven't heard him teaching on the Oneness thing, and I haven't scrutinized his words & works to see how much it influences things. That said, I'm always a little hesitant of things that are marketed too widely. However, I read "Naked and Not Ashamed" and well, I think it should be standard reading for all Christians. What it covers is so fundamentally important that I don't have words to express it. | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 146 Registered: 4-2004 |
From what I've read of Jakes regarding the Oneness position, I think he tries very hard to conceal his true belief. I've read several interviews in which he was specifically asked about his position on Modalism and he seems to beat around the bush. His statements almost appear Trinitarian but he seems to refuse to deny Modalism. Dane | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1087 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dane, that thickens the plot. Is it possible that he's avoiding offending his denomination? I think we all know a little bit about being in that kind of position. Maybe we should be praying for Jakes in this regard? That he come out in the open and help his people face their mistake (and face it himself)? | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2190 Registered: 10-2004 |
Actually, Jakes' church (The Potter's House) is a non-denominational congregation that he founded himself in Dallas, Texas. See: here and here. Apparently, however, he is associated with "Higher Ground Always Abounding Assemblies," according to this link and this link. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on October 04, 2007) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1585 Registered: 9-2006 |
It looks as though he explained himself satisfactorily in the link you provided Jeremy. It appears from his statement" purposely ignoring opportunities to be divisive." is the reason he has been silent on the subject. Jeremy, here hoping that he does have some impact on Adventist. River Ramone, it appears from his explanation that he is not trying to avoid offending his own congregation but is an advocate for the uniting of denominations in Christ, isn't that what you have been Advocating? | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2197 Registered: 10-2004 |
River, It looks like Jakes is even more deceptive in trying to make people think he believes in the Trinity than the SDAs are. Not only does he use the word "Trinity" four times in the article, but he even uses other terminology to make people think he is Trinitarian. The bottom line, however, is that he is Oneness, which teaches that the Son of God is not eternal--in other words, that the Son of God did not exist until the Incarnation, and that He is a mere created human indwelt by "the Father" (God). This is Gnosticism/Nestorianism and is a denial of the deity of Jesus Christ and the Trinity. See this link for more on this teaching: http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2858995/k.BF9A/CP0603.htm Here is a very disturbing quote from Jakes' article:
And the rest of the paragraph is just as disturbing:
River, you wrote:
Even if that were true and he really was Trinitarian, his reason would still be absolute hogwash--when it comes to essential Christian doctrines such as the deity of Jesus Christ and the Trinity, we MUST be "divisive." And we most certainly should not be "silent" on these teachings just so we are not "divisive" to those who would dare to pervert Christianity itself and deny these doctrines and still call themselves "Christians." Should we also be "silent" about the Trinity so as not to be "divisive" with the Mormon and Jehovah's Witnesses?? River, you also wrote:
I am shocked that you would say something like that, River, when we are talking about essential Christian doctrines such as the deity of Jesus Christ and the Trinity. Are we really supposed to "unite" Christian denominations with cults such as the United Pentecostal Church and other Oneness groups that deny these essentials of the faith? Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on October 07, 2007) | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1107 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jeremy, the first quote you called "disturbing" is not. It is a simple statement of the Incarnation. River is right in this case, Jeremy. We must be divisive when things are clearly disturbing, but you're stretching it here and reading more into it than is there. He hasn't said things as "out there" as Mormons & JW's, so the comparison is off. The proper thing to do is pray for Jakes that he wholly gives up the Oneness thing, and that he helps his denominational roots do the same thing. It is obvious that he sees problems in the Oneness thing, but that he is unwilling to be divisive about them. His love has been used by God greatly, but perhaps he can't see how the issue can be handled in love without being unlovingly divisive. I think picking apart statements such as the first one he made above is exactly what he rightly is trying to avoid. But there is a better way. | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 337 Registered: 7-2005  |
Grace, you wrote that you received the above email from SDA's with an attached message that includes this phrase: "TD Jakes is speaking boldly and unbiblically against Sabbath keeping." Now, I would like to ask the person who made that assertion this question: Exactly how is Jakes speaking UNBIBLICALLY? When one makes an assertion, one must be prepared to back up that assertion with sound logic and reasoning. I would really like to see their reasoning for that assertion. Honestwitness | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 338 Registered: 7-2005 |
Laurie, you wrote: "All of my life I viewed people who went to church on Sunday as "Sunday Keepers". I was right, they were wrong and how dare they claim Sunday as their sabbath? "I never read anything, saw anything, heard anything or talked to anyone who told me other churches did not "keep" Sunday. I had absolutely NO concept of the sabbath as a shadow of Christ, NO concept of old and new covenant. I still cannot even begin to understand my own thinking for my entire life. How did I not see the truth?" Thank you for posting this description of how sheltered you were growing up in Adventism. You have given me further confirmation that I am doing the right thing by continuing to attend the SDA church (as a frequent guest of my husband), while at the same time faithfully attending the Mainstream Evangelical Protestant church I attend on Sundays (as a member). Little by little, I've been given opportunities to share my views with the SDA's I see each week. They are all aware I'm going to both churches, but they don't usually say anything to me about it. I can only imagine what they must think. But at least I'm making them think. I trust the Lord that He will use me to present a visible example of someone who is a "Sunday-keeper." But you are correct, I am not really a Sunday-keeper. As T. D. Jakes put it, "I worship God on Saturday...and Friday...and Tuesday...and Wednesday...etc". Honestwitness | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1590 Registered: 9-2006 |
Hey folks, I am going to leave T.D. Jakes in God's hands. Just a gentle reminder that the thread is on Jakes sermon, I listened and I think it is a great message on the rest we can have in Christ, if the Adventist listen to it I praise God for it. Mrzkingdom, thank you for the link, please let us know what the e-mails said, nothing private you understand, just how they talked about the message in general. River |
