| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 882 Registered: 11-2005 |
I recently stumbled across the following website where another faith is trying to establish an honest dialogue with Seveth-day Adventism. As part of this process they are trying to understand exactly what Seventh-day Adventism teaches. How many of these bullet points do you feel correctly represent the real Seventh-day Adventist belief system as upheld by Seventh-day Adventist leadership? Does this sound like the Seventh-day Adventist belief system that you came out of? Do you feel like this correctly represents Seventh-day Adventism as portrayed by Fundamental Beliefs.? Do you know of any Seventh-day Adventist pastors who have been disciplined for actually putting into practice any of the beliefs communicated below? Do you feel like the Seventh-day Adventist Church is being open and honest, or are the playing "word games" with the intention of creating a complementary false impression? From http://warc.ch/dt/erl1/22.html Adventist Clarifications 1. Adventists have grown in their understanding and articulation of doctrine. Therefore, some expressions of their teachings found in earlier publications do not accurately represent their present positions. However, some criticisms levelled against them derive from misinformation and have never been true. In each of the following paragraphs, we express a frequently-asked question ("Q") followed by a brief Adventist reply ("A"). 2. Q: Do Adventists set dates for the second coming of Jesus? A: The Seventh-day Adventist Church was organised in 1863, and has never set such dates. It has officially and publicly rejected all such practices, as with attempts to attach significance to the year 2000. Occasionally, an Adventist preacher or writer may have set or implied dates for the second Advent, but they have acted without official endorsement or authority. 3. Q: Do Adventists believe in Christ's complete atonement on the cross? A: Adventists believe that the death of Christ on the cross provided the once-for-all atonement for sins, all-sufficient in its efficacy. Their distinctive view of the high priestly ministry of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary teaches that he is applying the ongoing benefits of his atonement, not adding any value to it. 4. Q: Are Adventists legalists? A: Adventists hold to the Reformation principle of grace alone, faith alone and Christ alone. They teach and preach that as saved people the Lord calls all Christians to holy living. This includes obedience to the Ten Commandments, with Sabbath observance; however, they understand obedience to be the result, not the ground, of salvation. 5. Q: Do Adventists add to the canon of Scripture? A: Adventists believe that the biblical gift of prophecy was manifested in the life and ministry of Ellen G White. They regard her writings highly as providing ongoing counsel, devotional material, and biblical reflection. However, they hold firmly to the principle of sola scriptura, teaching that the Bible is the rule of faith and practice that tests all other writings, including those by Ellen White. 6. Q: Do Adventists believe that they are the only ones who will be saved? A: No. Further, although they understand themselves to be given a particular mission, this is within the larger context of God's activity through many agencies. Their Working Policy states: "We recognise every agency that lifts up Christ before man as a part of the divine plan for the evangelisation of the world" (O100). 7. Q: Do Adventists neglect the social implications of the gospel? A: Adventists have always been engaged in social betterment as part of their understanding of the gospel. They have been reluctant, however, to engage politically in challenging societal structures. The truth is the road to freedom. Gilbert Jorgensen It has been 162 Years, 11 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 1844 | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 134 Registered: 6-2007 |
Gilbert You asked: How many of these bullet points do you feel correctly represent the real Seventh-day Adventist belief system as upheld by Seventh-day Adventist leadership? Does this sound like the Seventh-day Adventist belief system that you came out of? Do you feel like this correctly represents Seventh-day Adventism as portrayed by Fundamental Beliefs.? Do you know of any Seventh-day Adventist pastors who have been disciplined for actually putting into practice any of the beliefs communicated below? My answer is None, No, No, and No. More lies, more word games. Laurie | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 487 Registered: 12-2004 |
Gilbert, The answers given above, do not reflect current or past Adventist positions. I agree with Laurie, in that none of these answers are accurate. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1592 Registered: 9-2006  |
I could find none of these answers to be correct. (See Lauries answer for the rest of the question's.) River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4370 Registered: 3-2004  |
Gilbert, My answer to each of those questions is a resounding NO. Just more word games by the SDA. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6950 Registered: 12-2003  |
Agreed. They're all word games. (I'm just aghast that they deny ever having set dates. They're "safe" because the church was organized after the founders set dates, had visions, set more dates, established the "shut door", opened the door, and said God deceived people so they'd be ready. This was the foundation of the church that officially organized in 1863.) Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1593 Registered: 9-2006 |
Gilbert, Do you think you could give me a pointer back to where the Methodist church expelled the Whites? Somehow I think this holds something that I need to think about. River | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 92 Registered: 2-2007 |
Pretty, sweet words...much like cotton candy which melts as soon as the water or heat gets on it.... | ||
| Wally Registered user Username: Wally Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2002 |
Gilbert, thanks for providing this link - I am troubled when the SDA church says they embrace the principles of the Reformation - particularly that of sola scriptura - with elements of their fundamental beliefs coming from the writings of EGW, they don't seem to have an adequate understanding of what sola scriptura is. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 897 Registered: 1-2003 |
It's all crap. I would like to know who wrote those lies! | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 883 Registered: 11-2005 |
Pheeki, You said, "I would like to know who wrote those lies!" It is right there on the bottom of the web page at http://warc.ch/dt/erl1/22.html I say, "Shame on them!" Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 884 Registered: 11-2005 |
River - here you go: http://www.truthorfables.com/Reasons_EGW_Harmon_family_disfellowshipped.htm http://www.truthorfables.com/Methodist_Church_Letter.htm | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6954 Registered: 12-2003 |
These are some of the biggest names in Adventism in N America today. They totally know how they are rationalizing their answers. There is a "split", almost like a psychological dissociation, in Adventists' thinking about themselves. On the one hand, they know all the distinctives that make them "different", and they will not renounce these because they are foundational. On the other hand, they know the bibical basis for the Christian community's criticisms of them, and they have to figure out how to hang onto the foundation while bowing to the fact that their foundational premises cannot be directly gleaned from reading the Bible. Consquence: deep compromise. They begin to believe that they really can have it both ways, that both the true Adventism and the true gospel define them, and that the two are compatible. They begin to believe that they have created a sort of "unified theory of everything" that allows them to say "We Believe!" to the gospel alone while concurrently saying "Adventists Forever!" to the SDA distinctives. They refuse to entertain the thought that these two things might actually be diametrically opposed. That consideration they will not explore. Instead, they create a syncretism of Adventism and Christianity, and they literally talk out of both sides of their mouths and refuse to face squarely the fact that they are lying to themselves. I KNOW this phenomenon: I used to be there. I know what it "feels" like. More and more I realize what a miracle it is that God removed the veil from my eyes. Our minds are capable of deep, deep self-deception. Colleen | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 138 Registered: 6-2007 |
Colleen You said our minds are capable of deep self deception. I know that for a fact. But... when I went to my pastor and head elder and elders with direct questions on the IJ, they all told me, in no uncertain terms, that they did not believe it to be biblical. That is not self deception. That is deception of others, fraud, lying, ... I'd better stop there. Laurie (Message edited by Laurie on October 09, 2007) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1595 Registered: 9-2006 |
Thank you Gibert. Concerning this thread, it is a sad indictment, this is what their son's and daughters grow up under. It burdens me. River | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 888 Registered: 11-2005 |
To a historic Seventh-day Adventist, the least "slippage" in doctrinal position is evidence that what Ellen said is coming true. "Liberal" Adventists have the "historic" Adventists aggressively preparing for the Universal Sunday Law and the imminent Time of Trouble -- when they will have to be perfect without a heavenly mediator. They are totally serious about this. Special independent "campmeetings" are being held all over where survival skills are being taught the faithful. Ellen White's predictions are coming true before their very eyes! Yes. We are in the very last days -- according to the "historic" Adventists. How does the saying go? Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience. ---The Great Controversy, page 588 Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 889 Registered: 11-2005 |
Laurie, same here. Gilbert | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 244 Registered: 5-2007 |
Gilbert, the saying that would be most accurate would be:
What the prophet says about others usually applies in spades to the sda organization. I have seen it over and over and over. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6959 Registered: 12-2003 |
So true, Larry. Colleen | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 530 Registered: 11-2004 |
There is information to non-Adventists and "inside information". Those answers do not reflect the beliefs accurately. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4383 Registered: 3-2004 |
The only thing I am going to say about the Seventh-day Adventist church is this: "a house divided cannot stand". One day it will fall. I thank God He has taken each of us out and pray more will hear His voice and answer Him and let Jesus lead them out. Diana |
