| Author | Message | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 87 Registered: 4-2004 |
I have continued to pray for my former pastor at the SDA church. This is his definition of grace. "For the grace of Christ is given us to share and remember that the grace of Christ is His character." One definition of grace is: "Grace is God's favor through Christ to people who deserve His wrath." Another Bible verse that I think describes God's grace is Colossians 1:13,14 "For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." Anyways, what do you think? Is the first definition of grace incorrect? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1581 Registered: 9-2006  |
I think it is incorrect because it is so incomplete. I get the feeling from reading the statement that he has the lessor God view, however there is not much to glean from such a short statement. The view of the three individual Gods instead of the trinity would necessarily come up short in any explanation of grace. he probably go's back to the tired old Adventist thing that Christ only gave an example to follow and that is what he means by "Character" and not necessarily attributing that to one of his attributes. My advise: Stick with the Bible verses. I don't charge for advise, but I accept cookies in the mail. I like Choclet chip or toll house the best. Please don't send them by snail mail as I like mine fresh.  River P.S> I got milk! P.S. again, don't try to Email them either, I tried it and it don't work, for one thing it clogged up my scanner and I had a terrible time getting the cookie crumbs out, also carrier pidgin is a no,no they eat the cookies on the way. (Message edited by river on October 05, 2007) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6937 Registered: 12-2003  |
Busymom, the first definition makes me feel that old familiar pit-of-the-stomach annoyance and boredom and frustration. It says nothing but sounds pompous. It absolutely doesn't define grace. What IS God's character, anyway? I am SO SICK of Adventists' saying things "are" God's character, i.e. "The law is the transcript of God's character." What does that mean, anyway? And how can we diminish God's character into some expressible form? He is GOD! If you're going to define what God is, the Bible says, "God is LOVE." That is the overarching essence of God which encompasses all His attributes including justice, grace, mercy, faithfulness, goodness, etc. River's right--the SDAs low view of the Trinity and of Jesus Himself cannot contain the truth of Jesus' omnipotence. Pass the cookies, River... Colleen | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1098 Registered: 10-2002  |
That expression, "God's character" has been sooooooo abused by Adventism & Adventists throughout the years! It has been a short equation for pointing to the Ten Commandments and the Sabbath. Christ on the cross for our sins, paying the price of our sins when we didn't deserve it. Yes, now that is God's character! This is the God who loves us so much that He gave His Son for us! He gave Himself for us! God's "character"? The Holy One came among the unholy and made them holy in Himself! The Clean came among the unclean, and the uncleanness could not overcome Him. Rather, the Clean made the unclean clean. The Light shone in the darkness, and the darkness could not overcome Him, and instead those who were in darkness were filled with light and called out to proclaim His praises! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2194 Registered: 10-2004  |
Amen! Speaking of Adventism's obsessive use of the word "character"... Did you guys know that the King James Version of the Bible uses the word "character" a total of ZERO times? And, not counting headings, the NKJV uses the word in 2 verses, the NASB 2 verses, the NIV 6 verses, and the ESV uses it in 3 verses. Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6940 Registered: 12-2003 |
Well, if that doesn't put "character" in perspective. The lengths Adventism has gone to in order to create "logical" support for their unbiblical philosophies is actually sickening to me. Again this morning (as I've mentioned before) we were hiking with Rocky in the foothills near us, and at the top of "our" hill we can overlook Redlands, San Bernardino, Loma Linda, and beyond. It was a truly beautiful Southern California fall day today, and when we were at the top of the hill we could see the LLU Medical Center, the Mormon temple, and to the north the general area of the San Manuel Indian Bingo/Casino. I was really struck by the numbers of people in this area (and in many others as well) who are completely locked into deception and don't even know it. Early church was going on at LLU at the time we were at the top of the hill, and once again I prayed that God would set free those bound in deception and dishonesty, protect those who don't know what these clean-looking religious groups are, and expose and break the spirit of Adventism. He is faithful; He is calling people to Truth. Colleen | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 251 Registered: 1-2006  |
Thanks for your great post, Ramone. So thankful for the love of the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Colleen, yes, he is calling people to truth. Last week one of our friends told my wife he is "about finished" with Adventism. He and his wife were long-time employees at LLUMC, and your post reminded me that God does not forget us. I'll invite them to come to FAF. Bob | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 335 Registered: 7-2005  |
I was taught in the Charismatic church years ago that the definition of grace is God's undeserved favor. A good Bible verse that portrays this is 2 Cor 5:21: "For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." Jesus was made sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. The only way that exchange can be 'characterized' is by the word GRACE. Honestwitness | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 460 Registered: 3-2005 |
Yes, I agree with what you all posted. Busymom: I think your Cor. passage is really good as is Honestwitness's. And along those lines, Colossians 1 says we've been transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. Ephesians 1 & 2 give a profound definition of grace. I don't think I can sum it up in a few words. It's too big, too majestic, too humbling, too deep, too real, too all-encompassing, all-absorbing. Ephesians tells us we are by nature children of wrath. The NASB renders the first words of 2:4-6 "But, God..." "But God being rich in mercy...raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus." God, Who is present in the entire universe is also presently in relationship with me (us) because of the unfathomable riches of His grace. In Awe of Him, Patria (Message edited by patriar on October 08, 2007) |
