| Author | Message | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 49 Registered: 1-2007 |
I have been going to an independent Baptist Church and a Sunday night bible study. Well last night the person giving the bible study read something out of a book by McGee. When I asked about him everyone was astonished that I did not know who he is or about his radio program. I live up in the hills where I do not get radio. Can anyone give me some information on this subject and where on the internet I can find him. Talk about being embarassed and wanting to crawl in a hole. His wife (Kay) piped up and said enough as I have come from a very sheltered religion. She and I have talked a bit before and she had come out of the RCC and understood where I am coming from. Like I told her that I am on the ground floor starting anew and they are up above, yet none of them have offered to study with me to help me learn and understand. I guess part of that is my fault for not asking and I have noticed that when I ask a question or make a statement probably from an SDA view point without realizing it the subject gets changed and I am wondering if they are afraid of how to answer it or just don't understand (thinking I am nuts. Which could be true,(haha). I have ordered some copies of Qustions to ask an SDA for myself,the pastor and I think I will give one to Kay for her husband to read. Her husband said his first wife was a Morman. I was really discouraged when I got home last night and wanted to quit going but I know that is Satan talking and I am not going to give him the upper hand. I really need a lot of prayers right now to help me get through this. Thank-you for any help with my request about McGee and letting me vent. Gail | ||
| Mrsbrian3 Registered user Username: Mrsbrian3 Post Number: 94 Registered: 8-2005 |
Gail, I don't know anything about him, but I bet they are talking about J. Vernon McGee. His website is thruthebible.org and there are podcasts available for his radio broadcasts. A balanced theological education, if you will, and exposure to many different views, is something we did not have the privilege of experiencing as an SDA. Separating the good from the bad sends us deeper into the Bible and to our knees, which is always a good thing! Hang in there. We're all learning and sometimes the learning includes some embarassment at how little we really know! Kim | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 86 Registered: 4-2004 |
Hi Gail, I can relate exactly to what you posted. I have had those same feelings. I think it is just going to take time for us to work through our Adventist theology. I don't know if they have community bible study near you, but I have been thoroughly enjoying it. It is interdenominational, so I don't feel like anyone is pushing a particular denomination on me. Their web site is www.communitybiblestudy.org. It has helped me to know that the leader of my study is praying for me related to finding a church home. She lives two states away, so we go to different churches. I am also more comfortable asking questions because there are women only in the group. Praying for you. | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 455 Registered: 3-2005 |
...I can feel it now....the heat rising up my face in mortifying shame and embarassment; the tears that well up and make me feel like a child because I've just said something so apparently UN-evangelical that it's caused the whole conversation to come to a screeching halt. It's hard! I started studying out of Adventism 6 years ago, left the SDA church 2 1/2 years ago, and I have decided that I will never completely purge my mind of all Adventist doctrine. (that might be a tad pessimistic)  But you know, God really affirms our decision to seek His Truth. Unfortunately embarassment occasionally does seem to go with the territory, but the spiritual blessings you'll receive by keeping "at it"; by seeking Him out, even when it's hard, will be enormous...really, truly! I will be praying for you, Gail. We understand you, here! Patria (Message edited by patriar on October 01, 2007) (Message edited by patriar on October 01, 2007) (Message edited by patriar on October 01, 2007) | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 223 Registered: 5-2007  |
Gail, As Kim just said in the above post, it has to be J. Vernon McGee and she gave you the correct link to his material. He has long since gone to be with the Lord but his radio broadcasts were all recorded. His basic approach was very simple. He simply read a portion of scripture each day in the form of a devotional and would go through the Bible once each year. Back in the days when I was making my escape from SDA theology, he was one of the important sources of Biblical input into my hungry soul. He was a "one-of-a-kind" and hearing him present the Word of God is a special treat that you must experience for yourself. Phil | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 124 Registered: 6-2007 |
Gail - Don't feel bad, I've never heard of him. Laurie | ||
| Sara Registered user Username: Sara Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2007 |
Didnt he make Little Debbie Snack Cakes? | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 50 Registered: 1-2007 |
Thank you everyone for the information and the encouragement. I was really down on myself but now my heart sings from your prayers and it is time for me to get back down to business knowing Gods word. Gail | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1566 Registered: 9-2006  |
Gail, They were talking about J. Vernon Mcgee for sure, no guessing, I listened to him on the radio for years and years and I got a lot of good out of listening to him speak. One day he made a pretty bad scoffing attack on spirit filled believers and I was very disappointed in that, but otherwise he had the basics down pretty good and like I said I enjoyed listening to him while I worked, It was my link to being able to participate in the gospel on weekdays while I worked and it brought me closer to the Lord. I was not aware that he had died as I can’t get squat for a radio signal where I live now but it is definitely who they were speaking of. As for the people you are with, they are just other Christians, many being grounded in the word from childhood I don’t think they have the ability to understand where you are coming from, I dare say many of them don’t know just how cultic the sda is. They are probably not even aware of the help you need or I am pretty sure one of them would be glad to take you under their wing in a more private setting, you might watch for a chance to put the word out that you need help. I pray that you find the help you need. Folks there are many out there who need to be able to minister the word just as bad as you need ministering to, it strengthens them and it strengthens you at the same time. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6912 Registered: 12-2003  |
Oh, my, the "where did you find that in the Bible" reaction!! Gail, I understand! J. Vernon McGee is wonderful. If you can get him online and listen, either on your computer or download his talks as MP3 files on an iPod or something similar, he is well worth the trrouble. Just find his sermons based on the passages you're studying, and I guarantee that the Scriptures will open up to you in a new way. River is right. There are many out there who need to minister to those of us who need to be ministered to. Gail, is there someone you could ask to study with you between meetings? Community Bible Study and Bible Study Fellowship are also great alternatives. Sara--love the joke! McGee, McKee--what a letter among friends?! Well, I'm off to Bible study--we're doing Revelation this year. What an eye-opener! (I'm actually excited about it instead of glazed-over-bored or knotted with anxiety. Praise God!) Colleen | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 238 Registered: 5-2007 |
No, snack cakes are made by the Essene Rabbi that makes all that peppermint and eucalyptus flavored liquid soap. Tons of reading on the sides of the bottles. | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 161 Registered: 7-2000 |
Hi Gail, Your post brought back memories of sad feelings of embarrasment. I understand your frustration. I believe the people do not know how to respond to the "off the wall" viz Adventist theology comments when they hear. Maybe they don't want to hurt your feelings. I have found that often christians are not as prideful to explaciate their biblical powess much as the SDAs I associated with. The first time I recognized the awkwardness and biblical ignorance was when I adamantly proclaimed soul sleep in a class woman's BS. The silence was deafening until one gal, smilingly chimed, "well, we may be wrong and she may be right, it will all work out" Bless her heart! Another time, I boldly commented on a scripture passage proving one can lose one's salvation. Someone gently corrected the mistake. Embarrassed, my husband whispered, "Keep your mouth closed in class" We still laugh about it today. A few weeks later, in another class, the leader made an off handed remark, that it is almost impossible for a person simply reading the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit to come up with weird stuff. The class members were sympathetic as I explained my background, with tears streaming down my face. I was confused to say the least and mortified. I took it personally, since I remembered the hours of my personal "bible study"-sda quarterlies and maybe? bible. Each time I would pray asking the Holy Spirit to guide me- "Open my eyes to see the wonderful things in Your law"-verse from psalms. When I came to terms, after a melt-down almost nervous breakdown, I was duped, deceived by Adventism and Ellen White, I approached the leader who made me his personal project. He and his wife were always available to answer my seemingly simple and stupid questions. Gail, again I say, I am sorry for how you feel right now, but you are not alone. May the Lord, Himself give you comfort and keep you singing as you study the word. He takes our sin, shame and sorrows. I don't know which is better; to have never heard off, or as an SDA,to hear Vernon McGee on the radio and quickly it off. Months after I cast off sda ism, I would simply read and learn from scripture. One day, I heard a preacher on the radio whose teachings jelled with what I was learning. I realized it was Vernon McGee and turned on to him. I kick myself for not being able to give him a listening ear when I was homeschooling. Here are the links to his website. I also include Ray Stedman whom I find equally good. I like their simple but profound, godly practical styles. This encourages humility, love and desire to know and live in Christ Alone. Dr McGee goes through the Bible in 5 years. He has been dead since 1988, but the messages live on. On the weekends there is a question and answer period and a Sunday sermon. http://www.thruthebible.org/site/c.hvKSLdMYIsG/b.403411/k.CB15/Home.htm http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Thru_the_Bible_with_JVernon_McGee/ http://www.raystedman.org/power/0000.html Erma Toussaint | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 228 Registered: 5-2007 |
Erma, I had the wonderful pleasure of knowing Ray C. Stedman personally as he would often come to our church on speaking engagements. Currently, I use his sermons to develop most of my Sunday School lessons. So, I heartily indorse all your recommendations. Phil | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 162 Registered: 7-2000 |
Thanks Phil, What a blessed priviledge you had in knowing Ray Stedman personally. Did he pass on in 1992? I love Pastor Stedman's and Mc Gee's sense of humor. Their scriptual, straightforward, simple teaching is so refreshing and encouraging to a learner's soul. They remind me of the apostle Paul. The focus is not on them nor their intellectual power and skillful, theological scholarship. I know some people get their spiritual high from being immersed in "deep" theological knowledge and excessive pontification using "experts" and great men of the faith who can slice and dice passages and themes of the bible to the enth degree. While I respect such people, I praise God for freedom. Those men have their purpose, but I will stay away from pontificating and simply stick with simple living the word-knowing Christ alone. I try to get a regular dose from Pastor McGee and Stedman. Often I use their sermons during my devotionals. Pastor Stedman has a sweet sounding voice. One has to grow into Vernon McGee's "texas-country" sound. Notwithstanding, you can't help but love that voice. Talking about deep and philosophical, I enjoy listening to Ravi Zacharias, the christian apologist. Have fun passing out your pamphlets, Phil. Did the elastic in your suspenders break from you pulling on them, yesterday? I hope not. All the best to you. Hi Colleen, how is your Revelation study? Do you mind sharing your discoveries with us on the forum? I have done both Daniel and Revelation through the Precepts International Inductive study. I have not been the same person after studying Revelation. Blessing and glory and honor belong to Him-Jesus, the faithful Amen. I think, Revelation, and my heart burst into singing Hallelujah! He Reigns or Handel's Messiah. Erma (Message edited by bmorgan on October 02, 2007) | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 229 Registered: 5-2007 |
Erma, Here's the link to Stedman's main library: http://raystedman.org Yes, he passed away in 1992 as you mentioned, which was twelve years after I moved north to Washington State. One study habit he introduced me to is called expository study where you go through a whole book. This is the very opposite of "proof texting". It takes longer but the rewards are greater because you tend to learn God's original message instead of a set of pre-conceived ideas of your own. P.S. I get my suspenders, along with my jeans, at the local "saw shop". It would take a lot more than a couple of "snapings" to make them break. Phil | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6920 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hi, Erma! Thank you for sharing your painful (but all-too-familiar to us) experience above. I credit you with introducing me to Ray Stedman--I really appreciate him. Revelation is amazing. We aren't far into the book yet, but last night we finished studying the last four letters to the seven churches. (We're going through fairly fast in order to get through the whole book by the end of May with a Christmas and an Easter break.) I have been amazed, so far, to see how many descriptions and phrases are repeated (especially describing the Lord Jesus) from the OT, especially Zechariah and Isaiah and even Daniel. My goodness, do you suppose the whole Bible had the same Author??!! I've mentioned on another thread how impacting it was to discover that the prophetess in Thyatira was probably a real person who led many in the church to compromise with paganism, probably through the means of their professional guilds which were tied to the worship of the local deities. As an Adventist, that whole letter was seen as "symbolic", and the impact of the church having a real false prophetess among them, leading people astray, and Jesus telling them what the consequences would be in terms of sickness and death...most interesting. Right up front, Elizabeth told us that we are using the same hermeneutic for Revelation that we have used for the rest of the Bible: historical, grammatical, and literal. There is no rationale, she said, for changing our hermeneutic when we reach Revelation. It becomes a whole new book when it's studied the same way we study the rest of the Bible. Thanks for asking, Erma! Colleen | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 457 Registered: 3-2005 |
Erma! "Talking about deep and philosophical, I enjoy listening to Ravi Zacharias, the christian apologist." I agree! I really enjoy listening to him as well. I find that his clear cut rational apologetics are very uplifting to my faith. I've never seen anyone else mention him before! Patria p.s. I know you enjoy Beth Moore. I'm taking her "Patriarchs" class. I have a former Adventist friend who cracked up when I told her I was taking "Patriarchs and Prophets!" I was mortified...though I admit I laughed, too. (Message edited by patriar on October 02, 2007) | ||
| Mommyk Registered user Username: Mommyk Post Number: 48 Registered: 4-2007  |
Erma and Patricia...I'm doing my first Beth Moore study right now and am LOVING it! It's the updated version of A Woman's Heart: God's Dwelling Place. It's based on God's first dwelling place with his chosen people, the Tabernacle. I was so pleased that this class was being offered at my ladies Bible study. I now have a much better understanding of the earthy Sanctuary and the Heavenly Sanctuary. I have to "un-learn" what I was taught in Adventism about the Heavenly Sanctuary and this study has helped me so much in doing that! I absolutely recommend this study...and anything else by Beth Moore! Kristen | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 116 Registered: 1-2007 |
Kristen, I am so excited for you. I just starting Living Beyond Yourself - Discovering the Fruits of the Spirit and it is awesome. The next study that I want to take after this one is the one you are doing. As I have mentioned on other posts I did Daniel last year and it so freed me up from all the Adventist teaching that was still in my head (after 37 years!!). It is so great to be released from the fear. Beth has definitely been called by the Lord to teach women and my life has been so changed because of her studies. I just added them up and I have done 11 studies in total. Patriar I took The Patriarchs before I did Daniel. You are going to LOVE it. It was awesome. This past summer I decided to write Beth a letter and tell her how much I have loved and learned from her studies. I actually have just finished the letter and am mailing it to her today. I ended up sharing about my Adventist background and telling her that both Adventist and former Adventist women are doing her studies. I am including in my letter my testimony and a copy of Dale's The Truth about Adventist "Truth". I don't know if she knows much about Adventism but thought I would like to share this with her. I will let you know if I hear back from her. Blessed | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 163 Registered: 7-2000 |
Hi guys, Thank for sharing, Colleen. It may a great benefit were to you keep posting a summary of the study weekly. Just a thought, I know you have your hands full already. Patriar, Kristen and Blessed, yes, yes, Beth Moore is a very good Bible teacher. Patriar, don't you like the way Ravi repeats certain phrases or sentences twice, for emphasis? I too, owe a debt of gratitude to God for Beth's dedication to God and teaching His word. Her excitment and joy in the Lord are contaigous. When I first exited SDA-ism, in 1998-99, Beth's Bible Studies were the lifeline I needed. I haven't done one since I did "When Godly People do Ungodly Things." I stand, rather, bow in Awe of God. I am constantly amazed by the way He sends forth His Light and Truth to guide and bring us to the place where He dwells. At different times and seasons in my short "spiritual" life, since leaving Adventism, God brings me to different places to meet people. He teaches me through different styles. I believe it's the way He challenges and grows me. I want His Awe and my Excitment and Wonder of Him remain fresh and vibrant, always. I found Community Bible Study-CBS, and Kay Arthur's Precepts International Inductive Bible Study very good resources and quite helpful for christian growth. Three and a half years ago, I did a study on Covenants through Precepts. I found it helped me understand the Old and New Covenants in a clear, simple manner. I highly recommend it to Former Adventists. I was blown away because I had little knowledge of how covenants work. I am fascinated with the Abrahamic Covenant and the actions of God in Genesis 15. Pastor Mark, your booklet and audio messages on the New Covenant piqued my interest in the Covenant Study. Thank you so much for putting the materials out there. It's so good to see you on here on the forum. What took you and Pastor Dale, so long to jump in the discussions? Gilbert, I can't believe how many of Ellenism still lurk around in my head. You do a good job letting her speak for herself through the quotes. Sometime ago on another thread, did you ask about discipleship material or about people's (formers) discipleship experiences? I am not sure how you phrased the question. Nevertheless, I want to say neither my husband nor I had any personal, formal discipling by anyone. However, my husband attended a weekly early morning Men's bible Study at church. He became an avid reader and read good material from reputable teachers. The book study, "Search for Significance" was very helpful. I know many men joined the men's Bible Study Fellowship and Community Bible Study groups. Initially, I had to consciously refuse to be overcome by dread and fear of trusting anything or anyone spiritual again. I spent hours in christian book stores looking for good materials. I would ask people for recommendations. One time, I followed a guy around because he bought a bulk of material. I found out he was a Lutheran pastor picking up books for a woman's summer Bible study at his church. The Lord had to be directing because I gave him my phone number bought the book and promptly went to the class when the leader called me. With God's help, I suppressed shameful feelings about being so ignorant and stupid to not have recognized the false, cultic teachings in which I was immersed for twenty six years. Oh, how empty and dry I felt but was prideful about being a SDA, the "truth" and knowing the bible. God was amazing, quickly replacing my anger, distrust and disillusion with an insatiable energy to learn and live and grow in a true living, vibrant relationship with Him. He surrounded me with authentic, gracefilled, godly people and further opened my eyes to see Him through them. As I think of it now, He has been there every step and continues to lead even when we are unaware. He is always in the amidst and through all our horrible circumstances. I pray our Sweet Savior sing LOUDLY over us, especially those of you who have just stepped out or are considering life out of bondage and begun your walk into an authentic relationship with Christ. May He enable you to experience peace and comfort in your souls and spirits when you feel alone or discouraged or overwhelmed. Sorry guys, I am rambling on and on all over the place. God bless! Erma | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 458 Registered: 3-2005 |
Erma: You weren't rambling at all! That is all so true. I've found inductive Bible study to be very important as well. We are blessed to be at a church that teaches line by line using an inductive method. And I agree completely, Jesus alone deserves our honor and praise! There are many good Bible teachers (many bad ones, too!) and like you I've spent hours in book stores and listening to Christian radio sorting through "stuff". God is so amazing, though. He always communicates Truth to us when we ask Him for it. Wow! He is so Good and He is the only author of true comfort and peace. Yes, Kristen. I agree! We all have lots of un-learning and re-learning to do. It's amazing to find out what the sanctuary really was all about... that it was ALL a shadow of Christ Himself. WHO WANTS the shadow when the Light has arrived!? Patria (Message edited by patriar on October 04, 2007) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6933 Registered: 12-2003 |
Erma, I always like your posts! You're not rambling. Learning to study the Bible inductively has been the most important thing I've learned since leaving. It has changed the way I learn the Bible, and it has changed my worldview. God is good. Colleen |
