| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 228 Registered: 5-2007 |
With out responding to any specific thread. It occurs to me that a whole lot of jiving and schucking is going on. I am not suggesting do or don't. I am not attempting to impose my will on another. Accept or reject this suggestion and commentary viewpoint. But I get the impression that in the NT-FAF setting , and with our new found freedoms , now that we have escaped all things evil being SDA and EGW. The rules have been rewritten. Rule One: There are no rules. Rule Two: If you thought there were rules , see rule one. Rule Three:If you "thought" you understood the rules, see rule one. I say this in jest ofcourse. My point is, I see a whole lot more ridicule than I see instructive dialouge and pointed information. Perhaps the open forum itself does not lend itself to organized thought. Someone suggested once that there should be organized sections on the forums. I agree. The current "catch all" system is too cumbersome to wade through. We could have rooms named: "Slam the SDA" "Make fun of EGW" "Find an accusation" "Spin a new angle" "Sound Bytes" "Partial View" "Quotes r Us " "out of context" and then hopefully we could have serious discussion groups named: "Doctrines by Subject" "Issue's by type" "Finding a new church" "Help tools" "Coping with Transition" "Truths" and so forth. You ever try to focus on staionary objects while riding in a fast moving amusement ride. Everything is a blur. That is why I am having so much trouble making progress. It's all a blur. Disjointed, unorganized and without fixed points of reference. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 850 Registered: 11-2005 |
Jim, I think I can identify with your emotions since I have experienced them myself. At various times each of us, as well as newcomers, are experiencing the various stages of grief as we transition out of a belief system that we have learned that we were deceived into believing was the "voice of God". They are: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. You will meet people here in each of those stages. It is our responsibility as Christians to provide a supportive environment, companionship, and opportunity to vent our frustrations, encouragement, and our prayers. I say this to remind myself as much as anyone else. I began my exodus from Adventism about two years ago, and I find as time goes on I feel an urgent need to do three things: 1-Warn others of the dangers of Adventism (don't walk in that part of the town after dark! You may get raped.) I find that I spend time in all three areas. As a former Seventh-day Adventist, I feel especially "called" to minister to those in area #1. Not all formers are. My wife is not. I also feel a hunger to learn a whole lot more about area #3. We can't just go out and sit on a rock, and hope that God points us in the right direction. I find that my study has not subsided at all. In the beginning I was "studying" my way out of Adventism. Now I am "studying" my way into Christianity. After making it safely through the "#2 Transitioning" phase I, too, at times feel like one of those pies in an Allan Funt (Candid Camera) movie that comes out of the big ("transition") oven, and goes "plop" on the floor. Where do I go next? There are plenty of online Bibles, Commentaries, etc. It is easy to get overwhelmed. Prayer, of course, is always the first step. I have discovered what I consider to be a reputable resource. I don't think that Colleen will mind if I post this link. Some of you may even have some improvements on the steps that I am taking right now. If you go to http://www.carm.org/, you will notice in the middle of the page that they offer, for a very reasonable fee, three study programs. The CARM online School of Christian Theology will help you understand the basics of the Christian faith. If you want to know what Christianity is and is not, then this is the school for you. The tuition is $75. You can go through the school you step by step, at your own pace. You can print out the papers, answer the questions, print out the answers, and put them in a notebook. They also have a 1,125 page Apologetics Notebook. You can view the table of contents at http://www.carm.org/goods/notebooks_new_MOAN_toc.htm Jim, like you, I need something that can give me some structure to my "spiritual garden" as I pull out all of the old Adventist "weeds". I really like the subject material in the table of contents, and figure that (just like in college) while I may not necessarily agree with everthing, it should give me a good foundation to build on. I am really excited about it! Here at FAF it would be nice to see threads divided into these three categories as well. If I want to focus on my Christian Walk, I would prefer not to be innundated with more "Exposing Adventism". Or perhaps that is specifically what I need to review for an inquiring Adventist friend. "Christian Walk" would not be the right venue. Another reason that I feel "Christian Walk" is so important is that it shares with inquiring minds what is so exciting about being a Christian. Right now everything is in one giant cauldron, as you noted, and it is like blended up alphabet soup. But that is just my personal opinion. Others may have some even better ideas that they want to share with us. I hope the resources that I listed above, as well as relating my personal experience, can be of help to you. Gilbert | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1541 Registered: 9-2006  |
quote: That is why I am having so much trouble making progress. It's all a blur. Disjointed, unorganized and without fixed points of reference. Jim, doesn,t that seem a little unfair? How can everybody here know what you want to talk about, will finding fault with this forum help you find your way? If you looked closely enough you would see the rhyme and reason that runs throughout this forum. Its not in the headlines, its in the byline and the secret is in the fellowship, If I thought the forum did no more than "Shuck and Jive" I would leave right now, but I don't. Jim, I'm going to be very straight forward with you, no shuck and jive. I know you are hurting, but you seem to be looking for something to lash out at and this forum ain't it. Changing the format of this forum will not take away the pain of what you are going through. What can relieve the pain though is to begin to consider the pain of others, thats how this forum works. Through ministry to one another and through prayer for one another. River | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 144 Registered: 4-2007 |
Jim, As an outsider on this board, I had just about decided not to post anymore on this forum, but I thought I would respond. I too read the swirl of discussions here and don't see much I can relate to or care to respond too. I am very grateful to the Tinkers for allowing me to post knowing my background, and I'm also grateful for the support from kind members in dealing with my Adventist mother and relatives. That said, after receiving an email insisting that if I were 'really' saved, the Holy Spirit would be leading me out of the Catholic Church, ended any sense of my having a place in this forum. I feel I shouldn't have to defend my Christianity to have a place at the table. I had read posts long enough to know the views of most posting here, so my alienation is my own fault since I can't keep my mouth shut, or fingers still I should say, when I find what I love disparaged unfairly. (my view anyway) Adventism leaves raw wounds mentally and spiritually. The people here need this place to vent and heal. It serves its purpose very well for most who post here. Those of us (and I don't really know if this applies to you or not, since we don't know each other well) who don't 'fit' in may not be benefiting from some of the discussion, whether because of its tone or its content. I do think that they need it, and I don't limit the Holy Spirit to just expressions and actions I understand. If you want to email me, feel free, its posted in the private area and on my profile. I have struggled with agnosticism in the past, its very tempting when you have been through the Adventist meat grinder. God Bless you Jim, and take care, I will be praying for you. MarysRoses | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 853 Registered: 11-2005 |
MaryRoses, I for one have been blessed by your insights, and hope that you will continue to contribute. Gilbert | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1078 Registered: 8-2004  |
So have I. Mary | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6889 Registered: 12-2003  |
Oh, my goodness, MarysRoses and Jim, I feel for both of you. I'm praying that Jesus will be more real to you than the pain and confusion. He is faithful...you can trust Him to lead you to resolution and freedom in Himself. He Himself is Light; in Him is no darkness at all. Colleen | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 211 Registered: 5-2007  |
MarysRoses, I to have been blessed by your words. Jim, It appears to me you want some "strong" person to take over and tell us, like in the military, what the plan is and tell us what to do. Well, here on this forum, God is in charge but he allows us a whole lot of freedom a lot of ex-Adventist like you are not use to. We don't always exercise our freedom well but we are learning by doing. Most of all, the Holy Spirit is very quietly directing our lives and we often don't have any idea he is doing it. When King David danced before the Lord, he was criticized for making a fool of himself. I see our humor, even when it has nothing to do with the topic being discussed, as the same as what King David was doing. We are happy and joyful….and ….we tell jokes. We also go to the prayer section and cry our hearts out to the Lord when a young mother's baby doesn't sleep well at night. II Sam. 6:14-21 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul’s daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart. And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD. And as soon as David had made an end of offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the LORD of hosts. And he dealt among all the people, even among the whole multitude of Israel, as well to the women as men, to every one a cake of bread, and a good piece of flesh, and a flagon of wine. So all the people departed every one to his house. Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD. Jim, may the Lord bless you with peace in your heart. Phil | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 446 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jim, I am praying for/with you. I would add to the other's comments that the forum really (and you might say a big 'duh' to this) isn't a place to LEARN doctrine. John Piper, John MacArthur, R.c. Sproul, Hank Hanegraaf, Mark Martin (exadventist.com) Chip Ingraham, Adrien Rogers. Those are names of people who have good, sound Bible-based teaching. Some great internet audio programs are available through www.equip.org and The White Horse Inn often has great stuff to listen to. Oh...another Christian apologist is Ravi Zacharias. He tends to live in the cerebral but I find his defense of Christianity inspiring. I listen a LOT to the Bible Answer Man. I especially find the question/answer sessions very helpful. I'll often play them while I'm surfing the internet. There are so many others who have good Bible teaching truth that is easily accessible and often free. If you can find a good church in your area, they will often offer classes on the foundations of the Christian faith. I am taking one of those classes right now. The reason I am giving all this information is because we can only learn what we know WRONG by learning what is RIGHT. In other words, we won't be able to clear out the EGW bad teaching until we can line it up side by side with good, Bible-based teaching and see where the error lies. It's like starting with the A,B,C's for reading. And again, the forum is NOT a good place to get that. That doesn't mean it isn't here, but like you've noted, there are a lot of voices shouting a lot of things and until you have a solid Biblical stance, it'll feel like you're in WWIII. Does that make sense? In Jesus, Patria (Message edited by patriar on September 26, 2007) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1545 Registered: 9-2006 |
Marysroses, I thought you might have been a little hurt, but I for one love talking to you, I like your Spirit and I wish you wouldn't stay away, I have been missing your post. River | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 481 Registered: 12-2004 |
Maryroses, I have appreciated your comments, perspective, and journey. I have found your posts thoughtful and full of insight. I recognize that there have been some strongly voiced opinions here. Most of those come from the expected corners. Every family has them. Foolish of me to think you were on a 2 week all inclusive somewhere exotic, and thoughtfully did not tell us, as you knew it would no doubt illicit envy. I had figured it was quite kind of you, as you have spent enough time here to know that with all our other problems and phobias, we didn't need envy as well. Long story short, I hope you continue to share your views, as I for one have been educated by your comments, perspective, and journey. Peace and Grace, Randy | ||
| Cease_striving Registered user Username: Cease_striving Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2007  |
Jim, I pray that God will heal your pain. The path out of SDAism feels arduous at times, but a bit of humor sprinkled in can ease our hurts a bit. Proverbs 17:22 says, "A joyful heart is good medicine, but a broken spirit dries up the bones." Also, as Diana has so aptly stated, "If I did not laugh, I would cry." MarysRoses, I, too, appreciate your insights and have missed you. I know how it feels to be an outsider, the eccentric person people would rather avoid than make an effort to accept. It is one of the reasons I do not attend church. I hope you post more often. Cease_Striving | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 222 Registered: 5-2007 |
Whenever I read Jims really odd posts, I think that God must be preparing him for something unlike any of the rest of us. Whatever it is, it is going to be spectacular, I believe. Jim, do you have 3 arms, or six fingers on each hand? | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2007 |
MaryRoses, I think you are important on this forum. I have only been here a short time but, you are the reason I'm here. A year back I was on a Catholic Forum debating with Catholics on the Sabbath and the National Sunday Law, and you were on there. I was posting the usual SDA rhetoric on Sabbath. But over the course of this several month debate, God starting revealing his truth. I later came back on and apologized to all on the Forum and gave a small Testimony as to how I believe the Sabbath is no longer a requirement, but still wasn't quite sure. Than you were so kind and gave me advise. You gave me the URL to this Forum and told me that it can help. I came to this Forum and just lurked around as a reader, but didn't join and post. This Forum has been a great help and I would not have come here if it were not for you. I can't remember the Catholic forum website but it may help to tell you what my name on that forum was: DrDude. Thank you MaryRoses for being kind and guiding me here. So I pray and hope you will stay here and continue to post, you are more important in God's work than you may realize. God Bless Paul | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 239 Registered: 10-2006 |
Jim, My experience is that faith is never organized and neatly arranged. It is tempermental, hot, cold, unpredictable, unknowable, uncertain, disturbing, angering, but ALIVE. It is because of my sin that my faith is imperfect, and because of Christ's righteousness that my faith is in Him. He and His word are all that I have. It matters not what other's opinions are about my journey. It came from God not them. The fact that my situation is desperate, empty-handed and chaotic is proof to me that the Holy Spirit abides in me. Jesus promised that there would be suffering alongside Him if we choose to be His followers. That's all there is. Yes, Adventism stinks, so does all religion in my opinion. I do not need answers to all questions. I just need to trust Him and obey as He shows me how to. It's enough, it's peace in Him in spite of myself. If others want to rant about whatever, what is that to me? It's ok to discuss anything, we don't have to take a dividing position on every issue. I'm just sayin'..... steve | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 229 Registered: 5-2007 |
Gifts of The Holy Spirit: 1 Cor 28 , those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, 1 Cor 14 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way. I suppose I come across as a control freak, or critizing. I am sorry if it sounds that way. "Who does this Johnny come lately think he is anyway?"  What I am attempting to convey is that in expereincing the uncharted waters , I am simply expressing it would be a whole lot easier and more expedient if the Discussion area was partitioned into subject categories. However, as I prefaced. Accept or Reject. It was merely a suggestion. The last I checked , I do not have any extra arms or legs I do not have a anger penchant or looking for some place or person to vent it on. In my entire career, I have been expected to handle the job, get it done and move on to the next assignment. I understand the concept of patience and study. Growth and all the ingredients. This is why I was expressing a desire to organize and streamline by adding in a modicum of organization to what is otherwise a random gathering of very important discussions. Finally, I agree with one suggestion. The forum is proving to be not the best place to learn doctrine. It is a good sounding board however. I am not seeking to accuse. Perhaps it comes across like that. Admittedly, I probably have, not meaning to do so. There is a vanity in thinking one may have a better way of doing things. My bad. If you can't say something nice.......... As for study. I have studied for 30 plus years. We use this word ressonance. A lot of what I have studied recently has a measure of logic and strings of truth. But the conclusions do not rise to a level of ressonance for me. Perhaps in time. But there is enough disconnect between the accumilated data to warrant caution and further investigation. Thus, back to my doctrine aggrivation. I am not opposed to reasonable efforts. But let's face it folks. If it takes three lifetimes and decades of debate and still people cannot arrive at a concensus. I began to wander if it is even possible at all. Thus, barring agnosticism, barring license, I am left with common sense. I think Trust and common sense is the closest thing to a religon I can manage right now. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4341 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jim, What I have learned in my 3 1/2 years out of adventism is that God teaches every one the same core doctrine. The one that affects our salvation and that is Jesus Christ, the good news, the Gospel. There are other things such as tithing, a non salvation issue and others that are non salvation that will differ in the various churches. I do continue praying that God lead you. Diana | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1548 Registered: 9-2006 |
We have arrived at a consensus, we have all decided that we love Jesus. We have decided to follow him the best that we can. We have decided to love one another even though there's more religions on here than Carter's got little liver pills. We have decided that when someone hurts we are going to take them to the Lord in prayer. We have decided that we will not let our family scrapes rule us. Just look at all those consensuses. Hope you ain't mad at me for pulling my pistols on ya Jim, they only shoot blanks anyhow. BTW I ask prayer for you last night at church and I am praying for you. River P.S. I would let my Bible do the resonating mostly. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 857 Registered: 11-2005 |
Great post River! Gilbert | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 291 Registered: 1-2004  |
I'm delighted to see you here, DrDude! I certainly remember you from CAF. Jeremiah |
