| Author | Message | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1047 Registered: 8-2004  |
Legalism and its Antidotes Someone brought this article to my attention this evening. It is well worth the read. Much of what I've found in my exodus from Adventism is encapsulated in it. Happy reading! Mary (Message edited by helovesme2 on September 01, 2007) | ||
| Jrossb Registered user Username: Jrossb Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2007 |
Mary, Have just read through and printed the referred article. So concise - so simple - so inspiring to all that have any sorts of doubts as to what direction to go. The person that has been totally dominated by legalism understandably is petrefied as to just what degree they can "totally trust" the new found gospel. Even "old stagers" who have been on the converted gospel waggon STILL need to keep pinching themselves that they are continuing to be included daily - not because of the inability of the gospel - but the individuals continuing inability to fully appreciate. Thanks for sharing that reference. Man, what a God. JRossB | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1408 Registered: 9-2006  |
I read the article through and the man said “Its hard to write about it” well, its hard to read about it too! I see possible legalism in myself although I fight hard against it and I am going to try examining myself closer. I have seen the legalism in my church denomination for a long time now and I am trying to avoid it. I even see a potential for legalism in the former Adventist simply transferring the rules of Adventism over to the rules of legalism which are abundant in the church he lands in. I noticed it on here, they take on the same form and nature of the church they landed in and yet each church seems to have its own form of legalism. I have remarked before that it seems God takes persons emerging from Adventism and “sprinkles” the other churches with them so to speak. Some into Charismatic churches, into Baptist Churches and so forth, it seems he takes the sheep and integrates them in the various Pens’ so to speak. I have spent years observing other churches as well as my own because of a simple question ask me by a non-Christian “Why are there so many different churches and denominations that are so different?” I felt he deserved a good answer, but all I could say was “well, perhaps it is because they are addressing the most important question of all time, what will you do with your soul?” I think it was a “sort of answer”, but I felt it lacked so much and I have worked on this problem ever since. I really hesitate to tell this lest I be counted more of a dork than I am already, but for the sake of addressing this subject I will try to tell it as clear as I can. One morning as I sat and prayerfully thought on the subject of all the different denominations, I wasn’t really talking to the Lord directly as much as a yearning for answers that had plagued me from time to time those many years. All of a sudden the Holy Spirit began to communicate with me. He said “do you remember the time you tried to follow the Elk into the woods?” I said “ Yes Lord I do.” What he was talking about was a time when, across the road from my house was a deep forest, I saw a herd of Elk cross the road and enter the forest, so I grabbed my gun and went into the forest after them hoping to fill my freezer. As I got into the forest, thick with undergrowth and tall trees, just following the Elk herd, the trails started branching off, this was their normal browsing route through the forest, I would follow one trail only to have it emerge and cross another trail, these trails were all through that forest heading in a general direction, but it made it impossible to follow the herd. Finally I gave up in disgust and made my way back to the house. So the Lord brought that scene back to my mind clearly even though it had been many years since the incident. He made me to know that churches are like that, he said ”he said, you won’t catch an Elk that way and you won’t catch a Christian that way, if you want to see a Christian, just come to the water and wait” (meaning himself, he is the living water) “Then in due time he will emerge from that forest of confusing trails, he is headed toward water”. Now some of you hunters (if there is such a thing as an ex-Adventist hunter) I don’t know why an Adventist would ever hunt, he don’t eat possum! Friends, ever since then I have been content to sit beside this water of life, laying back against that great tree ( Jesus) and just watching, taking a sip of water every once in a while and resting, waiting for the “Elk” to come to me. The search for water will make an animal make many trails, and the search for “water” will make humans make many trails, but it don’t have to be that way I don’t think as long as we are willing to rest in him beside that river of living water, it’s a lot easier on the mind and spirit to just wait there instead of going into the deep woods with all its confusing trails, of legalisms. Mary, thank you for sharing the article, just every once in a while something happens to turn a light bulb on. I know many of you believe the Holy Spirit doesn’t sit and have conversations with you, but you just keep making those trails in the right general direction and pretty soon he will be holding conversations with you. Although if you think you will be able to argue with him, let me give you a clue before it happens, your answer will be just “yes Lord” or “no Lord” there ain’t no arguing with him, he tells you what to do or whats what and that is, as they say “that”. The Holy Spirit has a good memory, he remembers everything that you ever thought or did, you might say he knows you “inside and out” and he lives “right where you live”. River | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 319 Registered: 7-2005  |
River, thank you for sharing your elk story. That really makes sense to me. If you sit by the Living Water, you'll see the real Christians come to Him from whatever trail they may have been traveling. Very helpful! Honestwitness | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6712 Registered: 12-2003  |
Mary, thanks for the wonderful article. And River, thank you for the elk story. It makes sense and is really very helpful. Colleen | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 379 Registered: 3-2005 |
River, that is a wonderful story. Thank you! Patria | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1413 Registered: 9-2006 |
I have only shared that intimate moment with the Holy Spirit with one other person, ever. I just felt like the Lord wanted me to share it with you. There are times and intimate moments we have with the Holy Spirit which are not intended to share with others, not that we keep secrets, but is meant for our personal intimacy and learning. Just as there are some things with husbands and wives that are not meant to be shared with everyone. I have made the mistake of sharing some intimate moments with the Holy Spirit and immediately lost the blessing. True fact folks. In this case I feel that I have been blessed in the sharing, it is to him be the Glory. I pray for a blessing for the forum writers and lurkers today. In his name. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4244 Registered: 3-2004  |
River, Thanks so much for sharing about the elk and sitting and waiting by the water. The Holy Spirit has talked to me. The most recent being about the concept of God that I learned in the SDA church. I used to believe that God could not help me with my eating disorder because I was not keeping the sabbath. The HS corrected that about 3 months ago when I was praying. Thanks for sharing something so personal. It is a blessing and help to me. Diana | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 330 Registered: 11-2005 |
Mary, thank you for sharing that link. And thank you, River, for sharing your experience. It was a great visual and made a lot of sense. Great insight. River, I also agree with you about knowing when to share certain "moments" and knowing how much to share if you do share! I'm beginning to discover that myself. I'm just curious though, what do you mean by losing the blessing? As in people stealing the joy away from you or literally God removing the "blessing"? Grace (Message edited by snowboardingmom on September 03, 2007) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1416 Registered: 9-2006 |
The best that I can explain that is probably going to be confusing, I think God removes the blessing, but I am not sure, all I really know is that in these intimate moments when he speaks to me, i have learned to be very careful and prayerful before sharing it with others. If he prompts me to share it I know when he is prompting me to do so. In the past, I have shared these communications with others and the moment I did it just fell flat, the blessing gone. It may be something that would have continued to bless my heart for years to come but now it is gone. Where as in the case of the insight I just shared with you, it added to the blessing, even as I write this morning the Holy Spirit confirms in my heart that this is so. Regardless of whether God removes the blessing or whether its the people that I tell it too removes the blessing, it just takes wings like a weekend paycheck. So I have learned over a period of years to be very careful of sharing those intimate moments and what took place. That is the best I can explain it Grace. I really think God removes the blessing because he just is no longer in it. The Holy Spirit is a person, not an "it" and also the power of God. In looking at the trinity, one might view that this way. God- the mind. Son- the Word (expression?) Holy Spirit- The power. He said we would have power to be witness "after" the Holy Ghost has come upon us. Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. His power moved upon the face of the waters. He lives within us in power and great glory and that power changes us as he takes us from glory to glory, his glory. Since he is a person, we can cause offense by relaying something that was meant for us, for our comfort, or guidance, say in the case of the question which plagued me for years, and when this person of the Holy Spirit speaks, it is with great wisdom and insight and authority. How do I know it is the Holy Spirit speaking? 1. He will always confirm his Word. 2. He will always confirm his the Son, Jesus. 3. He will always confirm himself with the anointing. 4. If I ask for a fish he will not give me a rock. Why did he leave me asking the same question for 20 some odd years? I do not know other than to say he delivered the answer at the right time and place that I would not lose it. He answers when we are ready for it I suppose. He is not an object, he is not for our use, we are for his use and he never abuses. That don't look to me like a very good explanation , but is the best I can give at this time.  River P. S. maybe I better try to explain what I mean when I say "Blessing", the best way I can say it is that it is the blessing of the anointing, is is a blessing to be anointed, the anointing is taken away. Does that make any kind of sense? (Message edited by river on September 04, 2007) | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 332 Registered: 11-2005 |
Hmm...I think I understand what you're saying. It's not that the event or insight left, but the experience of it left. So when God speaks to you through that deep down sense of His awe and presence, suddenly after sharing the moment with someone else, it's just been cheapened, and God's no longer center of the moment. And His being center of the moment is what made the moment. Without Him, it just becomes an event or human thought. As I read that back, I'm afraid I'm not being very clear either. But I think I get what you're saying. Grace | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1418 Registered: 9-2006 |
You said it clearer and used a lot less words to say it Grace, thats about it in a nut shell. You are very clear indeed, if I had your ability my post wouldn't end up being so long. River | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 242 Registered: 1-2006  |
River Good story. Thanks Bob |
