| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 668 Registered: 11-2005 |
Since leaving Adventism I have learned that the SDA interpretation of the Latter Rain is another thing that we were taught that is not biblical. For those of you who are more firmly established in a Christian fellowship, what do you think the Christain understanding of the Early and Latter Rain is? | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 118 Registered: 7-2007 |
I've heard of it, but don't know what the early and latter rain is? | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 363 Registered: 3-2005 |
Well, my understanding of the latter rain is that it is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which most say came at Pentecost. I have never heard the phrase "early rain" so I can't say what that may be. My first guess would be that it's an SDA invented phrase to make way for the latter rain to happen AFTER pentecost. I'm just taking a guess. I'm curious to see what the right answer is.  Patria | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 137 Registered: 5-2007 |
I previously had watched 3ABN for years. What I always found curious is that preachers are always saying that the latter rain is now starting, right now, this instant. They say they can really sense it! And they say a prayer for God to really turn it on full blast. A year later, they are praying again for the latter rain to fall etc. In my mind I always wondered "hey, weren't you telling us last year that the latter rain was here?" It is very nice to be outside the confusion loop now! I feel badly that it is so hard to convey that idea to those still entangled in it. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 676 Registered: 11-2005 |
At a couple of the last SDA church services I attended, the pastor prayed that God would "send the Holy Spirit". I thought, "How odd." As a New Covenant Christian, the Holy Spirit dwells in each of us. The obvious implication of his prayer was that he sensed the Holy Spirit did not dwell in him or any of his SDA members! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1403 Registered: 9-2006  |
Well Gilbert, I think thats right on, I have problems thinking that the Holy Spirit dwells in people who are permoting and confessing such heresy. That kind of throws the whole Bible out the window. If the Spirit of God does not dwell in them, they are none of his. I didn't say that the Bible did. River River (Message edited by river on September 01, 2007) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6706 Registered: 12-2003  |
Patria, the terms "former rain" and "latter rain" come from Joel 2:23. Here it is in the ESV: "Be glad, O children of Zion, and rejoice in the Lord your God, for he has given the early rain for your vindication; he has poured down for you abundant rain, the early and the latter rain, as before." This verse is in the middle of a passage in which the prophet foresees a time when God will restore Israel and even the land would receive the spring and fall rains needed for abundant harvests. This section of the promise preceeds Joel 2:28-32 where God promised to pour out His Spirit "on all flesh" (v. 28). This passage, Joel 2:28-32, is what Peter quotes in Acts 2:16-21, explaining that Pentecost is the fulfillment of this prophecy in Joel. So, the Adventist use of "early and latter rain" really bears no resemblance to its use in the Bible. And for sure they misinterpret Peter's use of Joel 2 as the prophecy of Pentecost. They say that Pentecost was the "early rain", and the "latter rain" will be a bigger outpouring of the Spirit right before the time of trouble. When they pray for the outpouring of the Spirit, this anticipated latter rain is what they pray for. Adventists totally downplay Pentecost and its significance. If they truly saw it as the birth of The Church against which the gates of hell would not prevail, then how could they explain their own late emergence? Pentecost, to them, was just the "early rain"; God's true outpouring would come later and would include ALL the truth. At Pentecost, the church just had "present truth for that day." Now, because of Ellen, the church has progressive revalation and thus today's "present truth". (I'm not just making this up. My MIL told me a while back that the reason Paul said he preached only Christ and Him crucified is that he was speaking present truth for his day. Now we know the truth of the 3 angels' messages including the Sabbath is present truth for today.) Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4239 Registered: 3-2004  |
Colleen, I have not thought about the early and latter rain for a long time. As I read what you wrote, that is the way I remember it being taught. Diana | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 370 Registered: 3-2005 |
Colleen: Thank you so much for the clarification. Patria | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1404 Registered: 9-2006 |
The way I understand it his Spirit is being poured out in the latter rain and has been since the day of Pentecost. Now that doesn't come from any study on the subject, it is just an impression I had, this is the time to hunger and thirst for his Spirit seems to me like. To put it another way, the invitation is now going out for the marriage supper of the Lamb. River | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 684 Registered: 11-2005 |
Wow! Colleen, thank you so much for the explanation. It is amazing how for years I had not heard anything about it in SDA churches. In with all my SDA books that I have packed away for future evidence, I believe that we have a blue paperback book by Gordon Collier(?) with lots of "end-times" charts and a title about the early and latter rain. Seems to me like it is all Ellen White quotes. You clarification is invaluable! Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 686 Registered: 11-2005 |
Colleen, I am dumbfounded. The SDA Clear Word Bible can't leave anything unadulterated! The verses you quoted in Acts 2:14-21 NIV say, and the SDA Clear Word Bible changes it to read(!) So here Jack Blanco changes what the Bible says to be a "partial" fulfillment. That leaves the door open, as you noted, for Seventh-day Adventism to complete the remainder of Amos' prophecy. Jack Blanco, and his sponsorer, the Seventh-day Adventist Church, know exactly what they are doing with his rewriting of God's holy Word! He is a leading denominationally employed theologian! I am at a loss for words! I just cannot believe the audacity to do this, and then blame the Roman Catholics for supposedly "changing" the Bible. I suppose (tongue-in-cheek) in the typical Seventh-day Adventist spirit of blaming the Roman Catholics for everything, that Jack Blanco must be a Jesuit. Who else would change God's Word like this? Certainly no one who is a "non-Adventist" could ever get away with such wholesale mutilation of God's Word! These people are no more ignorant of the wholesale modifications they are making than Ellen and James White were. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 687 Registered: 11-2005 |
From the back dustcover of the Clear Word Bible
Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 140 Registered: 4-2007 |
When in doubt, blame the Jesuits! LOL! MarysRoses (member of the 3rd order of St. Dominic) (Message edited by MarysRoses on September 02, 2007) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6715 Registered: 12-2003 |
Gilbert, you are completely right. The church knows what it is doing. Who needs the Jesuits when you can distort the word yourself? (Sorry, MarysRoses...we love you!) Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 201 Registered: 7-2007 |
Back when I was an Adventist, I didn't know much about the Holy Spirit, so I didn't think about Him too much. I just figured that the Sabbath was the seal and that I was in the "one true church" so I'd be okay. Ellen White has replaced the true Holy Spirit Seal with the Sabbath - calling the Sabbath the seal instead. That reminds me of a letter I wrote recently to an Adventist. (I'd allready written to him about the Sabbath and how it was a shadow.) Here it is: Dear ____ I have a question. Is the Sabbath really the seal of God? What about the Holy Spirit? Romans 8:9 says that He dwells in those who belong to Christ. "...Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." Romans 8:16 says that the "Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God." If the Holy Spirit is the One Who tells us that we're God's children, then why isn't He the Seal? Or is it that we know we're God's children by whether we keep the Sabbath or not? Is it that the Holy Spirit kind of sticks the Sabbath in our hearts and then when we keep it, we know we're saved? Ellen White says that we shouldn't say we're saved, so then should we live in uncertainty until the Lord comes? What about these texts? Ephesians 1:13,14 actually says that the Holy Spirit is both the SEAL and the GUARANTEE of our inheritance. "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in Whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." Ephesians 1:13,14 show that we (who accept Christ) have been sealed and the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of our inheritance. Romans 8:16 says that the Holy Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are God's children. So isn't the Holy Spirit the SEAL? P.S. Ephesians 2:8,9 says that those who accept Christ "have been saved." So does 2nd Tim. 1:9 and Titus 3:5 Anyway, I wrote that letter to him since Adventists believe that the Sabbath is the seal; and to get him to think. Dianne | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 697 Registered: 11-2005 |
Dianne, excellent letter. Yes. Adventists are like little "Energizer Bunnies". Wind them up with Ellen White (high protein powder), and watch them go. They have one button that says, "See what Ellen White said". It doesn't really matter what the Bible says. Gilbert Jorgensen |
