| Author | Message | ||
| Bree_w Registered user Username: Bree_w Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2007 |
Hello =) To update you all, I will be meeting with the pastor of my former church tomorrow at 700 cst. I have given him a 13 item list to go over so we can discuss these things without him feeling unprepared. I am going to give him a letter requesting my removal of membership after we finish discussing. Please pray for me, that I may speak the truth in love and that I can see through all the stuff he is sure to throw at me. Most importantly, please pray that I can show this man Jesus and a seed will be planted in his heart =) In Christ Bree | ||
| Mommyk Registered user Username: Mommyk Post Number: 33 Registered: 4-2007  |
I'm praying for you, Bree.  | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 83 Registered: 1-2007 |
I will be praying for you Bree. I do not have a lot of experience talking with SDA pastors but one thought I have for you is to keep putting the focus back on Jesus and who He is in your life. It was interesting that when I sat down (many many years ago now) with the pastor of the SDA church that I left and shared my faith story with him, he said "that is nice that you have found Jesus but you need to come back to the "truth". I wonder if he did hear a word that I said. That being said, the friend that influenced me for Christ just kept the focus on Him and thankfully rather than me converting her to Adventism she led me to Jesus and to make a personal committment to Him. Looking forward to hearing how it went. In Christ Blessed | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 239 Registered: 1-2006  |
Bree I'd like to make a rather strong statement here, at the risk of being misunderstood. Your willingness to discuss certain scriptural points with your pastor is a kindness on your part, but I see it as an unnecessary concession. I think it's risky at a time when you are particularly vulnerable. I think you may be setting yourself up for him to stall for more time--to come up with excuses that will only delay your full entrance into freedom. I would be prepared to stand firm, keep the conversation short, and announce to him that the Holy Spirit has been leading you and that you dare not trifle with the leading of God's Spirit. Be firm, direct, and tell him your time in Adventism is over. Do not make any commitment to study with him. You do not owe him or the SDA church any explanation for your leaving. In brief, don't allow even the slightest risk of being pulled back into deceptive teachings. Bree, you may even want to consider calling him and cancelling the meeting. I don't think any good can come from it. I think a lot of us on this forum can remember the trauma of being in your position, and I'm sure you will hear good advice from others who may respond to this thread. I write this kindly, in love. I will be praying for you. One more thing . . . you may just want to write a kind letter stating that you are no longer an SDA and asking that your name be dropped from membership. You don't have to give any reasons at all, and you could also mention that you do not wish to meet as was earlier planned. Bob | ||
| Bree_w Registered user Username: Bree_w Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2007 |
Bob, I tried sending a letter asking my membership removed, and he wanted to meet with me before acting on it. I didn't feel right refusing to tell him my story and explaining the beliefs I now hold. The Spirit has indeed led me out, Praise God! I have never been more joyful or at peace than I am now that I have surrendered to Jesus. I completely understand your position, in fact my parents who are still SDA are worried about the meeting, and not because they are worried that I wont come back to the church. They see a change in me and do not want me to go back to the way I was before. I really have peace about the meeting. There is nothing he could say to me that would make me even consider returning to the church. I am going to share my story and my love for Christ and reiterate that I desire my membership removed. I have been praying that God will go before me and prepare the pastor's heart. I trust and rest in Him. I have nothing to fear because I know God will be with me. Thank you so much for your concern and advice. It always brings tears to my eyes to experience Christian fellowship in this way. I thank God for all the wonderful people on this forum In Christ Bree | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 651 Registered: 11-2005 |
Bree, whatever you decide to do we support you fully, and are here to encourage and lift you up. The Lord has a plan for you. Perhaps your personal visit will cause the pastor to stop and think about the deception that he has been a part of. It does force him to examine his own conscience. At the same time, Bob has some excellent advice. It is very important that you not allow yourself to be drawn into more meetings and discussions that you are not adequately prepared for. We will be praying for you tomorrow. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6670 Registered: 12-2003  |
Bree, I'm also praying. Bob's advice to consciously attempt to keep it short is good advice. The Holy Spirit will guide you, but do not feel obligated to discuss all 13 points. You can stop the meeting at any time. I think most of us here know how these discussions often go; just go in open-ended enough that you can pre-decide to cut it short if he wants to debate theology. Keep the focus on what Jesus has done for you. He cannot argue with your experience. Theology he can debate--and that would serve to deflect from the Spirit's leading in your life that has caused you to leave. Praying, Bree... Colleen | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2004 |
Bree, I will be praying for you tomorrow | ||
| Sara Registered user Username: Sara Post Number: 50 Registered: 5-2007 |
Bree, Put on the armour of God, from Ephesians 6. I will pray that for you. It's a spiritual battle. Go prepared with the armour of God. It's important. (I was blindsided once by the oppression and confusion in one such meeting, when I was unprepared) Pray to go on the offense, not the defense. You have wonderful news, the gospel of Jesus Christ! Continue to praise God that you have been led out. The sword of the spirit, the Word of God is your offensive weapon. Hide a favorite text in your heart, maybe even in your pocket or purse as a reminder. Sara The battle belongs to the Lord. | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 305 Registered: 7-2005  |
Dear Lord, I pray that You will give Bree the words You want her to say and that you will cause the pastor to hear and remember what You want him to hear and remember. I trust you, Lord, that you have this meeting completely under Your control. Honestwitness | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4210 Registered: 3-2004  |
Bree, I will remember you in my prayers. Keep it short and simple and emphasize God. He will guide you and help you. He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 444 Registered: 12-2004 |
Bree, God bless you in your meeting with your Pastor tomorrow. Much of the advice above is sound good advice. And you sound like you know what you are doing in this meeting. My advice would be to tell the Pastor right off the top, that your decision is made, and that you want him to honor your request. It sounds like you have already shared your reasons with him, so I wouldn't get into any theological debates at all. Once you decide its time for the meeting to be over. Thank him for following through with your request. Tell him you expect it to be dealt with at the next board meeting. I would suggest you initiate a prayer at the beginning, and at the end of the meeting. I would thank God for sending His Holy Spirit to guide you in your studies, and for guiding you into a better understanding of what He wants in your life. When I sent my exit letter in to my church board, I also sent it to several Pastors and theologians in and out of Adventism. I of course got varying replies. I am going to share some excerpts from a letter I received back from a very prominent Pastor at the General Conference. For obvious reasons I will protect his identity. Excerpt..." You put your finger on the central issue facing the Adventist Church in your statement"Ellen White is often the chief and only support for Adventism's unique doctrines" The fact that shes been dead for more than 90 years doesn't seem to register with most of the members and leaders in the church. We are indeed trapped in a "theological straightjacket" that prevents any semblence of theological exploration or discovery"....... Excerpt....."I admire you for publicly taking a stand on the side of Christ and the simplicity of His gospel. I could hope that as Adventists become more perceptive in evaluating the Bible's teachings, perhaps more formal progress could be made in that direction among the church's membership at large. But frankly, I've observed the opposite. The appeal from the grassroots and the leadership in general is: "Stand fast---don't change a thing" That doesn't create a climate for growth".....end of quote. I am only sharing this with you, so you will know that even an Adventist thought leader, and a member of the GC committee, recognizes when someone finally gets it, the simplicity of the gospel. Bree, follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and you will have nothing to fear in your meeting tomorrow. I suspect your Pastor will be envious of your journey and new found freedom in Christ. God Bless, Randy | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 228 Registered: 10-2006 |
Bree, Your (former) pastor is the one with questions and doubt. Keep that in mind. Be sensitive to defensiveness and ambiguity. Many SDA pastors I've spoken with have some version of what kind of SDA they are willing to endorse. Many will write off almost anything except the Sabbath, which of course ensures their paycheck. steve | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 185 Registered: 7-2007 |
I'm praying too | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 447 Registered: 8-2006 |
Bree, I will be praying for you tonight at 7 your time as you meet with your former pastor. I agree with Randy that you have nothing to fear, and with Steve that it's probably the pastor with the doubts and fears. God is faithful and will be with you in the power of the Holy Spirit. Susan | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 90 Registered: 6-2007 |
I agree with Bob. There is nothing to discuss. I handed my letter to the pastor the night of a board meeting. He immediately pulled me into the sanctuary and proceeded to plead and beg me to change my mind. I just kept telling him no. He gave my all the lines about how he needed me to effect change from the inside, blah blah blah. This went on for about 45 minutes. He kept putting the letter back in my hand and I just kept giving it back. I should mention it was during this little talk that he told me he did not believe in the IJ. Finally he said he would present it to the board but they would not act on it until he had a chance to talk more with me. I told him no, act on it tonight and I left. He promised me, note the word promised, that he would contact me that week and we would talk at our home. I told him I wanted him to watch the spirit behind the church video with me. He promised he would. He promised he would call me that week. Weeks, months went by. I e-mailed him every month before the board meeting asking for my request to be processed. Usually no response, or he said they just hadn't gotten around to it. He never called me. He never came over. He would see me at church, shake my hand, and push me through the line. He never said one word to me. After about a year of e-mails, I wrote a second letter and copied the conference president on it. I also work with a lady on the board and told her to pass the message along that I would be contacting an attorney if I did not get this resolved. About three months later they sent me a letter saying they had "sadly" agreed to honor my request. This is a very very hot topic with me. Did you know that according to the church manual there are only 2 ways to have your membership removed? #1 is death. #2 is at your request and this can only be finalized through a church business meeting where you are publically voted on. The congregation, in theory, has the power to deny your request. WHAT??? They can tell me I can not have my name removed? This is nothing short of public humiliation and intimidation intended to scare people away from actually removing their names, thereby maintaining the inflated membership numbers. It makes me sick. I told them to just hold their stupid meeting and let me know when it was over. I thought about showing up for my shunning and letting them have it. But what is the point? I don't think that is what God would have me do. So to make a long story short, it took almost 2 years and the threat of a lawyer to get my name off. After the business meeting and the shunning, aka vote, I received a letter from another member. He said although he was sad to see me go, he had great respect for my follow through and actually removing my name. He admitted that church was full of hypocrits that were members in name only and my way out was much more admirable than their actions. Sorry for the rant. Next to the IJ, this topic is my biggest hot button. How dare they make me be subjected to a public vote and decide if I can have my name removed or not. Sickening. Bree - I am praying for you, that you have success with your pastor if you meet. It did not work for me. I pray that you are able to reach him somehow. Laurie | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 91 Registered: 6-2007 |
No more posting for me today..seems nothing good is coming out of my mouth. Sorry. Laurie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6678 Registered: 12-2003 |
Laurie, this is why we're here. You are not the only one who has had this sort of exeprience. You don't need to be scarce...we understand! These are the sorts of common experiences we share--and God does not waste them. Just your posting your experience gives other people a sense of not "being crazy". You have no idea how often we hear, "I thought I was the only one!" God redeems the past...even the humiliation of their denying your right to remove your name. Everything we submit to Him He can transform for His glory. Our shame becomes the place where He is glorifed. Believe me, Laurie, we understand...and God will not waste this as you submit it to Him. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 887 Registered: 1-2003 |
Yes...they publicly humiliate you at every turn in the SDA heirarchy! Worthy student always really made me mad. You had to submit all this very personal stuff...your income tax return even...how you spent your money every month, etc. in front of the whole board...they could pass it around and talk about if we were "worthy" enough!!!! Who ever came up with that title for a scholarship?!? My tax returns are probably still floating around up there with my ss# for anyone to see! At the time, I felt I would do anything to keep my kids in SDA schools...my husband had to quit working and attend school full time so I was the only one working...it was worthy student or public school! So I humbled myself and filled out every humiliating thing they wanted and knew they were going to discuss it openly at the church board meeting for all to hear!!! Then you feel like if something happens at school you can't complain because you are taking their charity!!! I also don't feel having your church membership discontinued deserves publicity!!! In my opinion, the secretary should be able to email the conference and viola'...it's done. But nooooooooo...in true SDA pious tradition...it has to be talked about amongst all the pious church board and agonized over and talked about some more and then they go home and tell their wives or husbands and they tell 2 friends and so on and so on and so on!!!! Not that I care...but you know my reasons for removal weren't even really acknowledged. They probably said things like..."She's discouraged." I know for a fact my letter was read the same night the new associate (newly graduated from SWAU) resigned and left the SDA church, and another woman whose father was a big money contributor (they board shook their heads sadly and said, "She comes from such a good family."- my friend on the board told me! See how gossipy it is????) also requested to be removed...so I was no big deal. | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 92 Registered: 6-2007 |
Thanks Colleen. I just feel like these things should not still get to me and they do! Just thinking about things like my letter get me all cranked up. Actually make me angry and I don't like to feel like that. I also know so many people are reading these posts. Current adventists, former adventists and everything in between and I don't like to just blast negative thoughts for them to read. Just when I start to feel it is all behind me, one memory can make the anger and all the feelings come flooding back. I wish I were truly over it. Laurie |
