| Author | Message | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 556 Registered: 5-2007 |
Google Heartland Institute of Health and Education which appears to be a hardcore right-wing Adventist organisation. When you get to the web page, click on Institute and go to the article "50 Years Later in Adventism". Just go read it, it is guaranteed to "curl your hair". | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 266 Registered: 1-2004  |
Reb, It's spelled Hartland... I spent probably 3 years there part of which was as a student. They treated me very well and it served as a good place to study my way out of SDAism. Jeremiah | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 557 Registered: 5-2007 |
It is spelled Hartland. Sorry about the misspelling. I looked at their college catalogue, man are they strict. | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 267 Registered: 1-2004 |
Yeah, they are strict. They attract strict Adventist youth, very dedicated, sincere people. When I went there it was partly because they were so strict. I actually liked it, for the most part. Unfortunately they know they're right, theologically. They study the prooftexts diligently. I remember an occasion where some of the students and staff had a voluntary meeting to exercise our skills in showing that SDA doctrine was Biblical. We divided into groups of about a dozen people and were given standard arguments from Evangelicals and others to refute. My group got the texts in the New Testament about all food being clean. We actually got stumped! We couldn't prove that they didn't mean what they obviously said. So our spokesperson for the group anwsered the arguments by saying all meat eating was bad, without answering whether meats were clean or unclean. At that time I was already basically an Evangelical under cover... it was just more evidence as far as I was concerned. Jeremiah | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 590 Registered: 11-2005 |
Yes. Historic Adventism is alive and well. That is why "Evangelical Adventism" is a myth. Historic Adventists subscribe 100% to Ellen White. She is their god. That is why I (and the Historic Adventists as well, only they call it a "shaking") predict that there will be a rupture within Seventh-day Adventism very soon. The diabolical thing is how Ellen White could have made all of these false statements in Testimonies, and then reinforced it with the pronouncement that one of the last signs is that many Seventh-day Adventists will "try to make of non-effect the Testimonies". To me it would take a satanic genius to even come up with such an incredibly elaborate bulwark of false logic to butress the false doctrine that she spewed forth. She would call wrong right, and right wrong, predict that there would be those who would try to discredit her (messages from God), and then call down God's judgments on those who did not go along with her. Sick people just aren't that smart! Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 591 Registered: 11-2005 |
Jeremiah, I can't even picture you going to Hartland! | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 558 Registered: 5-2007 |
Ummmm. Gilbert, EGW was criminally insane, not retarded. She was actually quite clever(in a diabolical way) given that she only had a 3rd grade education. I still believe she was mentally ill but I'm now leaning towards thinking she was criminally insane. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 559 Registered: 5-2007 |
Why don't they offer any Math or Physics classes at Hartland? I've noticed in looking at catalogues of not just Hartland but even "mainstream" Adventist colleges and Universities, Math and Physics seem to be lacking and not one of them even seems to offer a major in either field. Do Adventists have something against Math and Physics? | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 592 Registered: 11-2005 |
Reb, It is too bad they dropped Home Economics back in the 70's -- at least at Southern (Missionary) College (University, Skunkworks, whatever). Home Economics would have been fertile ground to demonstrate the finer points of "Counsels on Diet and Foods". Ah. What mesmerizing titles! Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 562 Registered: 5-2007 |
They teach hydrotherapy at Hartland, still according to the catalogue. I thought hydrotherapy went out of vogue a good 70 years ago? There was an Adventist pastor on CARM that claimed hydrotherapy can cure malaria and that's why EGW told people not to use quinine. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 151 Registered: 5-2007  |
Hydrotherapy…the memories come back...and they are not good!!! My mother had some major surgery at the St Helena Sanitarium in 1947. When she returned home, there was something new in our bathroom. An enema bag with all the attachments. I was well into my adulthood before I found out what some of the uses for that contraption were. As a young adult just out of the Marine Corps, I worked at the Calif Veterans Home Hospital in Yountville as a hospital aid. There, they had a fully equipped hydrotherapy room. Thanks to my instructor, who was an Adventist nurse, I was trained in many of the obscure details of the art of water treatment for all sorts of ailments. It sure was an incentive to find another calling in life. Phil | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 595 Registered: 11-2005 |
Phil, I am not sure what aspects of hydrotherapy you were exposed to. Enemas normally fall under the category of “colonics”. There are many very good benefits to hydrotherapy. It just requires work. For burn patients it is invaluable. Ice (frozen water) is the treatment of choice for many runner’s foot problems, sprains, swelling – all sorts of things. My mother graduated from the Florida Hospital nurses program back in the late 40's and learned a lot of useful hydrotherapy and massage treatments there. One that I especially remember was a treatment for when we, as kids, felt like we were coming down with a cold. It was great, and we felt so much better afterward. When we would feel like we were getting sick with a cold or flue (ugh!), my mom would put a bucket in the bathtub that we would "soak our feet" in. She'd fill it with hot water. We would cover ourselves in a thick wool blanket. She would keep putting in as warm a water as we could take, until we broke a sweat. Then she would have us pull our feet out, and she would pour a kettle of cold water on our feet. We would dry off our feet, put on warm socks, and crawl under our covers in bed, and go to sleep. It felt so good, and always worked. The next day we always felt much better. Why? Because it improved the circulation, raises the body temperature, and helps the body fight of an oncoming cold. A few months ago I had a head cold/cough that was trying to go down into my chest. I put some fomentation clothes around my neck, that night before I went to bed. Next morning it was gone. That is sure much better than having it get down into my chest. Hydrotherapy, properly understood and used, is a wonderful thing. It assists the body's peripheral circulation, cleanses the largest organ of the body (skin), and doesn't have the harmful side effects of pharmaceuticals on the liver. Another extremely useful thing to have in a first aid kit is charcoal. That doesn't have any harmful side effects either, and is the treatment of choice by EMS for poisoning. It is about the only thing that works well with a brown recluse spider bite. A teaspoon of activated powdered charcoal in a cup of water is wonderful in soothing an upset stomach because it is such a powerful absorbent. Wildwood Lifestyle Center has had a lot of experience in this area, and Dr. Agatha Thrash has some excellent books on home health care. Pharmaceuticals have their place, but anytime you can utilize a treatment that complements the way the body works without loading it up with toxic byproducts that is definitely better for the body. Loma Linda used to have both a School of Medicine and a School of Public Health. Unfortunately the drug companies don't make their outrageous profits sponsoring the treatments taught by the School of Public Health and it lost out, and was closed down. I know a doctor that went to both that practices at a public hospital. A lady came in with acute menstrual cramps. He wrote a doctor's order for them to soak her feet in warm water. The attending nurses were dumbfounded. In a very short time this ladies cramps disappeared because the hydrotherapy treatment assisted her circulation eliminating the cause of the cramps. He was a firm believer that it takes both conventional and complimentary medicine. He is also a well-known research doctor, and sponsored by Duke University. There are some really good things that came out of the School of Public Health -- hydrotherapy and massage. Everything Ellen White recommended wasn't bad. Remember, most of what she wrote she copied from others. Just my thoughts ... Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Bigal Registered user Username: Bigal Post Number: 84 Registered: 9-2006  |
Ah, boys you are hitting a little close to home now. There are actually some benefits to hydrotherapy that are not querky. In my practice I use it in the frozen form, hot form, to conduct sound wave through, to debride a wound, etc. I was trained at Loma Linda in the old sanitarium basement. The layout and old equipment reminded me of the Road to Wellville, but I was taught modern use of water and its benefits. I would bet that Walla Walla had plenty of math and physics classes being that it had an emphasis in teaching engeneering. I took my share of simple math and physics classes at La Sierra to get into PT school. Now were is the cord to plug in that Sitz bath!  Alan | ||
| Bigal Registered user Username: Bigal Post Number: 85 Registered: 9-2006 |
What Gilbert said. Alan | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 152 Registered: 5-2007 |
I suppose I had better surrender this topic to those who know more about it than I. After all, I have spent a lifetime repairing ships, not people. My dad's sister, who was trained as a nurse at the St Helena Sanitarium had many fine practices related to using both hot and cold forms of water therapy. In the hospital where I worked, the treatments that were conducted in the hydrotherapy room were ok. The part that I thought was a little extreme was the many uses for the enema bag that I have been exposed to. Both what I experienced at home and on the hospital "recovery" ward. Since I now work for the Kellogg Cereal Company, the movie, Road To Wellville, was recomended. A few minutes into it was all I could take and I hit the eject button. It is way beyond what any Christian should be watching. Phil | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6563 Registered: 12-2003  |
Gilbert, Loma Linda still operates its School of Public Health, but it has jettisoned the old hydrotherapy emphasis. It is a school of "public health" in the sense that is understood internationally: preventive health care, international health care, health education for the public, etc. They offer both masters and doctoral degrees in public health. It attracts many international students who come to enhance their professional training with public health education. You can explore what LLU School of Public Health is today here: http://www.llu.edu/llu/sph/ The interesting thing about Loma Linda is that on the one hand it is the crown jewel in the Adventist collection. On the other hand, it has abandoned Ellen White's vision for "health care". She actively taught against "drug therapy" (yes, in those days they had patent medicines and so forth). Today, Loma Linda is a mainline medical school. If you want to receive medical training consistent with Ellen's approval, you need to attend Weimar, Uchi Pines, etc. Colleen (Message edited by Colleentinker on August 16, 2007) | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 596 Registered: 11-2005 |
Phil, What you describe sounds like a precursor to a "paint ball". <grin> Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 597 Registered: 11-2005 |
Colleen, in agreeing with you, I would say that the problem with places like you listed is that they don't combine the best of both worlds. There are providers here in Salt Lake City that do provide both today, and are covered by traditional insurance. They call it “complimentary medicine”. Let’s take, for example, the field of oncology, since as my wife’s care-giver, I have become intimately familiar with it as it relates to her Multiple Myeloma bone marrow cancer. Everyone knows that chemotherapy is very hard on a person's liver, but most oncologists just practice what the medical journals and the drug companies teach them. The same is true for powerful steroids used to bring the cancer into remission prior to stem cell transplants for blood-related cancers. Without them, diet by itself, wouldn’t be enough. Proper (anti-cancer) nutrition is absolutely essential to help fortify the body. It doesn't have anything else to work from! And yet it is the Registered Nutritional Consultants that specialize in that side of oncology. Most people don't die of cancer. They die of an infection that the body in its debilitated state can't overcome. Cancer may ultimately take it there, but the only real defense the body has is the right kind of nutrition to help it in its fight. It desperately needs the “highest octane fuel” that it can get. And yet very few doctors work with nutritionists. There are cancer institutes, usually associated with specialty hospitals, where they do work together. Most doctors will just tell their patients that they can eat anything that they want. Even a veterinarian does better than that. Just ask a vet what will happen if a horse gets feed that is too rich! Places like you mentioned above have good aspects, but unfortunately are usually motivated by trying to follow Ellen White rather than a combination of their own empirical evidence combined with sound conventional medicine. And then when a person dies, they resort to saying that perhaps they were there for "spiritual healing". Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6566 Registered: 12-2003 |
Great point, Gilbert. it is curious, now that you mention it, that a place like Loma Linda that takes so much pride in its "health studies" and research does not combine nutritional therapy in a concerted way with traditional oncological protocols. (At least, I'm not aware of it...I'm not saying they don't teach good nutritional priniples in their RD programs, etc., but I'm not aware of collaboration between the disciplines in these areas. Perhaps I'm just unaware...) Colleen | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 287 Registered: 4-2005  |
I must protest! I was disturbed over reading Reb's post above which I quote: "Ummmm. Gilbert, EGW was criminally insane, not retarded. She was actually quite clever(in a diabolical way) given that she only had a 3rd grade education. I still believe she was mentally ill but I'm now leaning towards thinking she was criminally insane." I personally suffered psychological damage directly tied to some of the counsels coming under the authorship of Ellen G. White. I hold some very strong feelings about EGW, but I do not see this or any other forum the place for posting statements like the above, which I can only consider as rediculous, wild and unfounded accusations or labels. What professional authority do you have for making such identification, particularly of a deceased person? Where is the proof? And laying all that aside, Reb, I wonder how in the world such judgmental, off the wall, language could in anyway be a positive encouragment for any Adventist visiting this forum, who may be just beginning to question, and begin their search for the truth of the Gospel, who might still hold Ellen White and her writings as still considered "precious" to them? Where is Jesus glorified by using such language? I fail in my struggle to see that in any way! Should not we allow God to judge the depth and nature of motives when He alone reads the heart? Is not our own heart the place to hold such extreme opinions in privacy should such extreme convictions be ours? I think so. Jess |
