| Author | Message | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 165 Registered: 8-2005  |
My wife is going to a ladies house from church today after Sabbath services, they are having some sort of get together. I was invited but my sinus are really giving me fits and I am still upset over the death of a friend who passed away this past Sun. My wife thought I didn't want to go because all the people there would be SDA, which has a small part to due with why I don't want to go. I am still in shock over the death of my friend and really do not feel that social right now, it was a struggle to make it through this week at work. Btu I also do not feel like getting ganged up on by a house full of SDA's badgering me as to why I left "God's Church"! My wife is fine with me staying home, I told her if I wasn't going to services at the Messianic Jewish Temple I attend then I sure wasn't going to this get together. Do any of you all still associate with SDA friends? When I "officially" left the church earlier this year I sent an e-mail to my former boss at the GC to pass on to my former co-workers. After that I lost contact with the bulk of them, only a few would speak to me the few times I went back to see my wife. As far as I am concerned, if I never hear from members of the church I used to attend that will be fine with me. What say you all? | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 608 Registered: 11-2005 |
I have found that most of the relationships that I had with "fellow" Seventh-day Adventists were superficial, and seemed to focus on the "joys" of being a Seventh-day Adventist -- a inside member of the mythical "Remnant Church". Being a Seventh-day Adventist is like having a passport, it is something you have. The "you" does not change. The most profound thing I discovered when I left Adventism is how God's Spirit would reach down into the depths of my unworthy soul, and totally replace the "me" with a "new me". Until a person is willing to actually break with Adventism, and become a living member of a Christian fellowship they will never experience what a tremendous emotional release it is to go through this transformation. It is not just a "car wash". God, through his miraculous power has replaced the old "me" with a brand new "me" that is eternally grateful for his wonderful love and grace. We must be "plugged into" the source of eternal power. The sad thing is that I have no doubt whatsoever that I could go back today, after being gone for almost a year, and they would say, "I haven't seen you in a little while. How are you doing? -- meaning job, kids, etc." In fact I could go back, and continue passing out more "Cultic Doctrine" books, and pick up right where I left out. Theology, in Adventism, is like belonging to some theological discussion club. It is based on "talking the talk" rather than "walking the walk", like we now experience at the Baptist church we currently attend. Something that is profound is the way we, as Seventh-day Adventists, were indoctrinated to believe that we cannot "trust" our feelings. And when we "feel" good about something outside what the Seventh-day Adventist buffet offers they say (via Ellen White) it is because Satan is appealing to our emotions. It is another form of emotional rape, that makes it more difficult to actually enjoy life in the Spirit, until we let go of Adventism and its cultic doctrine. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 430 Registered: 12-2004 |
91, After reading and posting on this forum for a couple of years, it seems to me that I am an unusual case(some of you I suspect have thought that all along). I have been fortunate to have maintained all of my Adventist friends to at least the same degree of friendship I previously had with them. I fact I have had many approach me asking about my journey and questioning me about my transition. Only a couple have tried to convince me that my decision was the wrong one, but all have been loving, respectful, and kind. (Maybe its a Canadian thing). I found that being upfront about my changes as outlined in my letter, allowed those who cared to know, to realize that I was not hurt or angered by anyone, but was following what I felt was the Holy Spirit's leading. Pretty hard to argue with that when I supported all my reasons with Scripture. I have made a point of continuing to associate with my Adventist brothers and sisters as I did before. We rarely talk theology, but then again, we rarely did before, so nothing has changed there. If we do, I let them initiate, and usually when they do, it is something about Adventism that they have also been struggling with, and they are thankful to have a receptive and non-judgmental ear. What I have found with my Adventist friends is, they are starting to be more real with me, the facades are starting to come down, we are actually able to joke about the peculiarities a bit. Just last night I was out playing 9 holes of golf in what I have coined my "fairway fellowship". We made it off the course before the sun went down. But I had the freedom to email my buddie's wife last night...to let her know that we guarded the hours of the Sabbath. I thanked her for letting my buddy come out to play after work on friday, as my game needed his prayers, and that even though it was nip and tuck coming down the ninth fairway, I distinctly heard him humming "Day Is Dying In The West" just in case, so all the bases were covered, and in actuality it was almost like a vespers. Try and enjoy your SDA friends for the people they are. Understand that the Holy Spirit can and will use your fellowship to His glory, Randy (Message edited by randyg on August 18, 2007) | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 166 Registered: 8-2005 |
Truth be told I never was that close to many members of my former church. Those that I was close to were run out by the zealots long before I left. Most of my friends are people I have known for a long time, well before I joined and left the church. | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2007 |
Well, I am still in the SDA church. But it's hard to be there now. Today during our Sabbath class we were talking about Jesus' Ministry. And the group leader asked when Jesus said go to the World and preach the Gospel of truth when were we to do this? I said the moment he said it to his disciples in the 1st century. Many others there said 1844.... How sad. They say that the early christians were Adventists as well. I'm still going physically but spiritually I am not there. I'm hoping my wife will come around and see things for what they really are. No one there really knows how I feel just yet. I have not revealed it yet which I should soon because it is tearing me up inside. I want to share the Gospel so bad. I pretty much think that when I do tell them, I will become the outcast, or the lost soul being deceived by Satan. Randyg, that is great that you were able to remain friends with them. I hope that I can remain friends with my fellow members and bring the Gospel truth to them. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 615 Registered: 11-2005 |
Pnoga, 1844 would have been too late. Ellen White wrote in Word To the Little Flock and Earling Writings how the "Lord showed her" probation was closed in 1844, and there was no use praying for anyone that was not already part of the "little flock" after that time. That doctrine is also known as the "Shut Door". http://www.ellenwhite.org/egw15.htm http://www.ellenwhite.org/canright/can7.htm http://www.ex-sda.com/36-shut-door.htm Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Markmartin Registered user Username: Markmartin Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hey guys, Rejection hurts. It's the equivalent of a third-degree burn to the soul; sometimes it even scars. But I know someone else who has some scars.... Jesus, though He was perfect, He experienced being rejected by brothers and sisters and was abandoned by His friends in the moment of His greatest agony. "He was despised and rejected of men..." (Isa. 53:3). Jesus' experience is comforting, because it's an example of hope. His brothers later believed in Him after His resurrection, and 11 out of 12 disciples repented of their cowardly behavior and profusely confessed their love for Him. Will it always work out this way for us? No, but I've seen too many "impossible" cases turn around, to throw in the towel. Some of my best friends are people who thought I was the "Mark" of the beast! Lots of SDAs are like I was, they just need to see the difference the Gospel makes. When we live Spirit-filled, joy-filled, Jesus-loving lives, it is powerful evidence that all that stuff that's been said about us just doesn't jive. Another great story is that of Joseph. It's worth reading again, --I take comfort in his words to his brothers who had rejected and mistreated him: "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." Genesis 50:19-20 NASU. God has a purpose in all the things we go through, even rejection! There seems to be a complex dynamic going on. Many of the relationships in Adventism are based on having "the truth" and on being God's "peculiar" people. Even if you're a post-modern Adventist, it's still the cultural things like where you went to college, what food you don't think you should eat (even if you cheat now & then), and the Sabbath (irregardless of how you keep it), that create a sense of communiity. There's a special sense of being special. Adventists are taught to see the whole world very simply: Adventist or non-Adventist, Chosen or Gentile. I think there is a difference between community and what believers experience in authentic New Testament friendship/koinonia/agape. This is the basis of real friendship. ---Thank you Lord that you are a "Friend that sticks closer than a brother," our awesome Savior! "Even if my father and mother abandon me, the Lord will hold me close." Psalm 27:10 NLT "He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds." Ps 147:3 NASU Lord bless, Pastor Mark | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 411 Registered: 6-2005 |
91, I am still friends with some SDA's, and hope and believe we will always be friends. A few others I feel fairly comfortable with, and we celebrate special occasions together. Several relationships feel strained, and we avoid the proverbial "elephant" in the living room when we are together. I am praying for more boldness with these people. Some relationships are toast. I have had people practically run from me (literally cross to the other side of the parking lot)when I visit SDA church for various functions related to friends (weddings, funerals, baptisms). It hurts, sometimes it amuses me, and always I pray. I recently had someone tell me that we wouldnt be seeing much of each other anymore since my son was not returning to SDA school. We have always done things outside of school functions, so that was a surprise statement. I understand what you say Gilbert, re the superficial relationships. God has been bringing me close friends, at a deeper level. I didnt have anything to compare it with before, so I didnt know what I was missing. There is a closeness with others "alive in the Spirit", which is instant in some cases, and transends other relationships. In fact, I feel like family with some of you, and we have never met in person! Lori | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6581 Registered: 12-2003  |
Lori, my experience is very much like yours. I have a few Adventist acquaintances that are superficial. The few Adventists that I considered true friends have largely disappeared. These were friends, however, with whom I had more than casual, social interactions. We had routinely talked theology, family stuff, etc. We were quite close, in fact. These few friendships have evaporated. I have also found that God has brought me new friends with a depth that was not there in most of my Adventist relationships. That "alive in the Spirit" reality really does transcend other relationships. I've notice that even people with whom I wouldn't "normally" have been friends have a significant connection when our relationship is based on mutual Bible study and prayer, and Jesus is at the center. It's something I really never experienced before—with the exception of one long-time friend God brought into my life 23 years ago who also transitioned out of Adventism and into the body of Christ concurrently with us. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1221 Registered: 4-2000  |
In my experience, the few remaining SDA acquaintances that I have, I have to usually take the initiative to contact them and to keep some sort of connection alive (thankfully there are a few exceptions). I also have lots of relatives still in the complicated grip of Adventism. First of all, I dearly love the Adventist people. They will always be in my heart and prayers. Oh, they've got a clever system. To let somebody perish in a false system isn't loving at all. To rescue people out of a damning and false religion is the only loving thing to do. What a distinct honor it is for us to be allowed to participate in His work of redemption--the most noble and sacred mission on earth. Have you prayed for an Adventist today? Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on August 18, 2007) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6589 Registered: 12-2003 |
You are right, Dennis. I was thinking today, when I was working in the yard, about how many Adventists are bound, blinded in deception or dishonesty or a combination of both. Again I prayed that God would free them. Many of them don't know they need to be freed; others are conflicted and in internal dissonance. Whatever the situation, they need to be freed—and the only way freedom can occur for them is by a miracle of God. I have been more aware lately, for some reason, of the urgency for us to pray for God to move on their hearts. I also pray for all those who will be getting Proclamation! again beginning, most likely, this next week, that God will prepare their hearts and open them to the gospel. I know that when God's people pray, He glorifies Himself. I can't explain how it "works"—but God is faithful to His own promises! Colleen | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 213 Registered: 10-2006 |
No. I do not see Adventists socially. The only way I could do that is to attend their church. They will not attend mine. The conversations ultimately lead to Adventism, almost everything secular and spiritual is fed through the filter of EGW or "the church" or "the truth". Not one Adventist from my former church congregation has ever called. Apparently, we cannot discuss openly what God has done for us. When I explain where God has led me, I get this confused look. steve | ||
| Berit Registered user Username: Berit Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2007 |
I am happy to say that I still have good contact with most of my sda friends. One of them is just so wonderful and helps me out with babysitting. But I am a bit sad that almmost nobody is open to talk about theological matters. The few times I have brought it up they have not seemed to feel comfortable with it. It' s like they are afraid of what I could come to say, like if I might know something they don't want to hear and relate to... I think it is important to maintain contact where it is naturally, in this way they see that we are still normal people and they might be attraccted by the positive changes in us. Dennis, I agree with you, there is a lot of wonderful adventist people and they need our prayers and friendship! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1294 Registered: 9-2006  |
I have several Adventist friends that I communicate with on a daily basis, seven days a week, I don’t feel the need to honor their Sabbath. Of course my case is different with most here since I am a “never been” and I think my acquaintances with them may have been the Lords doing. One thing I really feel in my heart that we have in common (formers and me) is that our place is to love them and not skewer them (Adventist) on a fork so we need to be very careful, thoughtful and prayerful about how we treat them regardless of how they treat us. How about it Mark? Do you think I am thinking along the right lines? River | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 94 Registered: 5-2007 |
Colleen, I believe that God pays special attention to prayers that result in His being glorified. Praying for Mr. and Mrs. XYZ to be freed of this dishonest religion with the end result to glorify God can only yield one of two possible results: 1) They have hardened their hearts and refuse to love the truth, or 2) God works a miracle for that person, in His time, for his Glory. 3) Maybe some other kind of miracle I am not aware of. I cannot imagine you praying for somebody and God completely letting it slide, as if He forgot your request! How would He explain that to you in eternity!!  | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 298 Registered: 7-2005  |
My best friend, my husband, is still an Adventist. As you may know from some of my other posts, I started attending church with him about a month ago, after having left Adventism almost two years ago. I did not go back to attending church with my husband, until I was firmly grounded in a conservative, Bible-believing Protestant church, which I also attend every week. So, I am now attending church on Saturdays and Sundays, both. For me it is working out quite well. We don't have any children at home any more, so that is not an issue, thank Goodness! The folks at the SDA church have treated me extremely well. They have been extremely loving and sincerely so, I belive. One couple even allowed me to discuss a point of doctrine with them, but this took place in their home, not at church. I truly believe the Lord has His hand on me as I relate to these people. I have been praying for many months about this and I believe God has directed me in doing this. Each week, I watch carefully for opportunities to be transparent and let Christ shine through me in ways that will minister whatever blessing He knows they need. Not only that, but they are ministering to me, too. In the same way that you on this forum minister to me. You were all at one time Adventists, too, and there is a rich treasure of spiritual wisdom and deep thinking stored up in each one of you, as in them. The Lord opened up His truth to you in steps, and many of those revelations took place while you were still faithfully attending Adventist churches. When I think about the various ones still in Adventism who have perturbed me the most, I ask God to give me HIS love for them, because my own love for them is pretty weak. I try to remember that each person is where they are because of the entire complex history of their unique lives. If I were in their shoes, I would probably think just like they do, frustrating as their thinking can be to me. I pray God will extend His grace and love through me to these dear people, and in His own timing and with his own irrestible power draw them more fully into His truth and out of the kingdom of darkness. Honestwitness | ||
| Markmartin Registered user Username: Markmartin Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2007 |
River, I agree, --my heart is not to manhandle or "roast" Adventists. I don't think that's the way the Spirit of Christ works, but He is also the Spirit of Truth (Jn. 16:13), and Jesus was extremely forthright at times when talking with those who were the enemies of His grace. Each situation with Adventist friends or relatives is going to be different. Some are won over the years by slowly feeding them the truth. Others must be pursued and respectfully confronted with the Gospel and the issues they don't want to investigate. I often quote Ellen White's counsel to them: "The Truth has nothing to fear from investigation." (I don't have time to track down the reference). I can remember a funny incident that happened right after I was forced to resign from the SDA ministry and we left the Glendale, AZ SDA church. I felt led by the Lord to visit with a man from that church who I knew who had converted to Adventism and loved truth, but was afraid of me because of what he had heard about me from the pulpit the weekend after I was forced to resign. I was getting out of my car to visit him just as he was walking from his car to his apartment. When he saw me he literally started running away from me, saying, "get away from me, get away from me, I don't want to talk to you! You've left the truth! I don't want to hear anything!" But I just knew in my heart that the Lord wanted me to run after him! It was pretty funny! I remember running after him saying something like, "I've got Good News for you and you have to listen to me, --you've got to hear this,--there are things in the Bible you've never seen before, things the church doesn't want you to know. This will transform your life!" As he was in the process of slamming the door in my face, I actually put my foot in the door, and pleaded with him, "Tony, I beg you to listen to me for just a few minutes! Please!" Grumbling, he reluctantly opened the door. Two hours later, after listening to the Gospel and the Covenants Bible study, the scales fell off his eyes and he was born again. It was glorious! His mom got saved that afternoon as well and they became early members of Calvary. He had a voracious hunger for the Word right up until the day He went to be with the Lord. I've never chased anyone down and put my foot in the door before or since...(Ha! Ha!). Looking back at it I laugh and think, "what on earth was I doing?" Sometimes you may look like a fool for Christ's sake! Pastor Mark | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4162 Registered: 3-2004  |
Pastor Mark, That is funny about you running after him and putting your foot in the door. I do not know what God has for me to do, but I do know that all I have to do is follow Jesus and trust Him and He will not mislead me. He is always so awesome. Diana | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1302 Registered: 9-2006 |
Ha,its a good thing for him you were willing to obey the Holy Spirit. Thank God for the Holy Spirit or we wouldn't always know what to do or say, in fact, without his guidance we probably wouldn't get much done, but we were each born for this and this place. I am learning to put myself in his hands and leave the results to him, he doesn't ever ask me to do something I can't do. Thanks for the story, if God ever wants me to take off after somebody, I'll at least know its been done! That's awful funny you jamming your foot in the door, I'll bet you looked at your foot and wondered what it was doing jamming this guy's door. God has taken me far in the last year, five years ago if someone had told me what I would be doing today I would have said they were absolutely nuts and I would have probably said much the same thing that guy said to you "get away from me your bonkers" Every thing I keep getting into is so far from my idea about what he would have me do. River | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 431 Registered: 12-2004 |
Honestwitness, Thank-you for sharing your story. It sounds like the SDA folk in your area are similar to the ones that I am happy to call my brothers and sisters. As they pray for me, I continue to pray for them. I have found that kindness and concern break down barriers. If we follow what Christ called the greatest Commandment, we are fulfilling our role as witnesses to the joy of a life in Christ. I think we need to let the Holy Spirit prompt the hearts of the curious. If we have maintained a loving compassionate spirit, they will seek us out. If we have shown a hostile or vindictive spirit, our witness will be for not, regardless of whether we have our theology right or not. Pastor Mark, I have appreciated your thoughts and comments. Thank-you for bringing your experience and Pastoral insights to our forum. Randy (Message edited by randyg on August 19, 2007) |
