| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4151 Registered: 3-2004  |
Hi friends, I have not posted for 3 days as I am in Laguna Beach at a Celebrate Recovery conference. This evening at the meeting I was seated next to a Baptist minister. He knows all about the aberrant beliefs of the SDA. He has a retired minister in his congregation who keeps him up to date on all cults and different religions, including SDA. He is from Oklahoma. I also met a CR state representative from Tenn who was telling me that a local SDA church wants to establish a Celebrate Recovery program at his church. That scares me. The man gave me his business card and I am going to write to him and tell him to be very careful, that the pastor does not try to make the people SDA, unless of course they are already SDA. I will close for now. I have so much to tell all of you about the lovely Christians I met from across the USA and from overseas. We truly have an awesome God. Diana ps: I am driving home tomorrow morning with the 2 friends with whom I came. It was awesome. | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 60 Registered: 4-2004 |
Hi Diana, thanks for posting your experience at the conference. That is interesting that the Baptist minister understands about SDA. I have found since leaving that people have one of three reactions. 1.) The first woman that I told about my beliefs related to Sabbath keeping, jewelry etc. fell out of her chair laughing (she couldn't believe that people would actually believe those things). She had always heard evangelical teaching. 2.) The elder at the first church I attended regularly, brought "Kingdom of the Cults" to the basic Christianity class I was taking, and explained to me that the SDA church did not have aberrant beliefs. Another pastor near me of a large church has told me there is nothing wrong with SDA sabbath keeping can be a good thing as long as it isn't related to salvation. 3.) Only one person has come right out and said that SDA is a cult. Anyways, I am at the point where I am very careful about saying where I came from. I have just started saying that I came from a legalistic church. Which can then lead to another set of problems, there is no perfect church out there, and to say that you had problems at another church can lead people to think you are looking for perfection. I have not told anyone at my new church my background, other than to email the pastor and ask him his belief on the Sabbath. Anyways, I have missed your positive upbeat posts and pray for a safe trip home for you. | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 685 Registered: 4-2006  |
Busymom, I can relate to your writing. It's interesting that some will defend SDA, without investigating them properly. It isn't popular to be discerning now a days. I pray to our God, that you will find good Christians to fellowship with, and that you may find good teachers, so as to grow in the knowledge of our Lord, Saviour and mighty God, Jesus Christ. In His amazing grace, Martin | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6579 Registered: 12-2003  |
Busymom, I identify with your experiences. When we first joined our church, we weren't prepared for the blank looks we got when people asked where we were from, and we said we had been Adventists. We had so many people say, "Well, whey did you leave?" We've also had people—well, not argue, but discuss with us the fact that the Adventists they know are wonderful Christians, know the Lord, understand grace...we've often had people suggest that our experience isn't normative... Over time, people are taking us more seriously. We even have people seek us out to get help for discussions they're having with Adventists at work, etc. You know, Busymom, it's probably good, once your'e comfortable, to let your pastor know your background. If you feel God leads you to do such a thing, you might make an appointment with him and just explain where you're from, tell him that there are many people like you who are leaving, and explain that many of us face the same problem: entering Christian churches where the pastors and people have no idea how to minister to us because they don't know the truth about Adventism. We gave our pastor copies of Dale's books, Cultic Doctrine and Sabbath in Christ, just so he'd know what many in his congregation are dealing with. I know others on this forum have also had meetings with their pastors to explain. You could also write the websites in the flyleaf of the books and tell him he can read more--www.FormerAdventist.com, www.LifeAssuranceMinistries.org, www.LifeAssuranceMinistries.com, www.exAdventist.com I SO KNOW your frustration, the "gun-shy" response of not wanting people to know because they'll minimize your experience, and the flip side of appearing dissatisfied with a "conservative" church. Ultimately, the truth really pays. There's a price to pay in terms of explainming the truth to people who "don't get it", but we are the ones who can change this misunderstanding. We don't have to be aggressive or angry or confrontational. God equips us to speak truth and to honor Him. Our coming out and knowing Jesus is completely a miracle of His grace, and we have a story to tell! Many people don't want to hear the truth...but our experience is that if we don't duck from it, God confirms the truth we tell over time. And He protects our hearts and minds in the meantime. Diana, great news about your CR conference! With prayers for you, Busymom--I know how you feel... Colleen | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 76 Registered: 6-2007 |
I never tell anyone what church I came from. I just can't. I was embarassed to say I was an adventist when I was, and I am still too embarassed. I can not tell people I was a SDA. Last night we went out to dinner with a bunch of people from my office and it was a lobster dinner. I ordered fish. (I do not believe I am under the dietary laws of the old testament, I am just brainwashed and can not eat it). Many people last night asked me why I wasn't eating the lobster, shrimp, and clams. I just kept saying it was gross and I didn't like it. I could never begin to explain where I came from and the brainwashing I am still suffering from. Laurie | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4157 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have no problem saying which church I came from. It can present an opportunity to explain what adventists really believe. So far God has not told me do not say that. I met people from across the USA, Europe, Korea, Brazil and other countries. What never ceases to amaze me is the love Christians have for each other. There is instant friendship because we know the same God and have the same goals. Diana | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 77 Registered: 6-2007 |
I know you are correct Diana. It's just that I am embarassed to say that I once believed that. It's hard to explain to someone the errors of adventism without feeling so embarassed for once being so involved yourself and believing all the lies. So I just keep quiet. Laurie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6584 Registered: 12-2003 |
Laurie, remember that God wastes nothing and redeems everything we submit to Him. If you have submitted your shame and even your anger about Adventism to the Lord Jesus, if you have asked Him to replace the spirit of Adventism with His Spirit in the place in your heart where Adventism used to reside, then you can know that HE now carries your shame. You don't carry it anymore. As we allow Jesus to heal our hearts and forgive us even for our sins done in ignorance (I've had to repent for sincerely endorsing Adventism to a whole lot of my former students!), we begin to see that He will use our former Adventism for His glory. He will use your experience to help others know the truth and to know Him. You can trust Him, Laurie. You can take all this to Him, and He will take your shame and carry it for you. Remember? He carries the scars of those nails for all eternity—and our promise is that we will be made completely new. We will forever wear His righteousness, and He will forever wear the marks of our shame. Colleen | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 62 Registered: 4-2004 |
Thank you Martin for your prayer. Colleen I am considering your suggestions. I think it was Raven and Ric who said in their church search they were looking for a church to love them unconditionally. I think it is easy to share your history if you know people will still love you. There are a lot of things right now that I am trying to work through, bible inerrancy is one. I have a copy of my churches statement of faith. It is interesting that they have a statement in there about the sabbath. They say they consider Sunday the Lord's day but each christian is free to pursue activities on this day due to their own conscience. Each of their statements is backed up with a lot of scripture. (When I asked the pastor about his sabbath belief it sounded like something Dale Ratzlaff could have written) The one statement that still makes no sense to me is their description of the family. They put right in their statement re: servant leadership of the husband and submission of the wife graciously to his leadership. They believe Christ and the church is the model for husband and wife to follow. I started looking through the scripture on that one last night. In 1 Peter and think the key word is fear. Submission should never be about fear. When we submit to Christ in fear (like I use to do as SDA) or submit to a spouse in fear (unfortunately I have seen this) it is sin. Anyways I will stop rambling, I will pray about how I talk about my past. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1292 Registered: 9-2006  |
I think this is where it is important to make up our minds as to the cultic stance of Adventism. It just seems to me that we all have been deceived by sin in one form or another, I was deceived by alcohol, so what, so all you really need to say is that “I was an Adventist and I was deceived”, you won’t be saying anything that everybody there hasn’t been susceptible to, deceived by sin”. Now where this gets sticky is whether or not you have come to believe you were living in sin as an Adventist or not and I am not going to try to answer that for you. I can tell you this, I think only truth will set us free, although it seems the truth in your case is often hard to ferret out and pin down as Adventism is so multifaceted. What I am trying to say is, it often seems a formidable task to separate out the truth of the bible from the lies and deceit of Adventism and then to admit that to oneself. In alcoholics anonymous they have a 12 step program and the one prime requisite they have to, must do, is stand as say “I am an alcoholic” before others of the group. Its not important for others to admit it, it does nothing for them, it is important to you, so then you can go on praising God the same as they, a church is like a bunch of former alcoholics in some ways, we’ve all been there and done that, it was stupid, but we did it, whether it was one thing or another and we no longer practice whatever we practiced before. Now there are going to be folks who say this “Oh, it was Adventism, but it was not sin!” Oh no? Then what exactly would you say it was? If it is not sin and doesn’t go against the bible or your conscience then you have nothing to repent of or be ashamed of. I will probably get my clock cleaned for saying stuff like this, but that won’t be anything new now will it? Once I referred to Adventism as a red open weeping sore oozing puss and that made the big time, but I don’t think I have ever described it as being benevolent, if I did I was wrong. It just sounds benevolent. I will say that, they sound benevolent. We see in Kings II 15:34 And he did what was right in the sight of the Lord; he did according to all that his father Uzziah had done. Kings II 15:35 However the high places were not removed; the people still sacrificed and burned incense on the high places. He built the Upper Gate of the house of the Lord. Often we try to do what is right in the sight of the Lord, but fail to get rid of the high places and the people continue to burn incense on the high places. The question is, are we still burning incense to Adventism or have we removed those high places? Well, I said all that to say this, if any church member you may by happenstance or divine appointment be a member of try’s to pin shame on you, they best look to their own past. We as Christians can hold our head up, not because of what we did, but what Jesus did for us and no one and I mean no one has a right to point a finger at us. I just had to come to the point that I had to say “Hey, if you don’t like my appearance, take it up with Lord”. River | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 78 Registered: 6-2007 |
Colleen - Thank you. You have a very special and wonderful gift of knowing the right thing to say. River - You said "Now there are going to be folks who say this “Oh, it was Adventism, but it was not sin!” Oh no? Then what exactly would you say it was? If it is not sin and doesn’t go against the bible or your conscience then you have nothing to repent of or be ashamed of." This is where it gets all messy. You can not throw all SDA's into one pile. They range from full sincere commitment to their beliefs, to pastors half believing, to those not believing at all, but just staying for family and friends. Which one is "sinning"? You will get a different answer from every person you ask. Are my mom and dad sinning? I have showed them the truth but they continue to be SDAs. Are they sinning? If they are not convicted of the truth are they sinning? What about my SDA pastor and head elder who both openly told me they did not believe in the IJ. Are they sinning? What about me.... I was fully convicted of the sabbath and food laws, but that was pretty much it for me. Was I sinning by being an SDA and not believing in EGW, or the IJ, and by wearing jewelery? I can only answer for myself. I did feel I was sinning when I learned the truth about the sabbath and I could not continue to even attend the SDA church from that point forward. I do not feel like I was sinning up until that point. The bible tells us many times that God winks and forgives our sins commited in ignorance. But... there comes a time when out free pass under ignorance runs out and we are responsible for finding out and understanding the truth. But I don't think we should presume to look at someone, anyone, even an adventist and say they are sinning when we can not understand fully their understanding. Laurie | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 79 Registered: 6-2007 |
River, just one more comment. I do believe the SDA church is a cult. No doubt in my mind. But I do not believe anyone who is deceived by any cult is "sinning". They are simply deceived. Now, how long they choose to remain in the cult is another story. Laurie | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 214 Registered: 10-2006 |
Laurie, I used to be embarrassed also, then God showed me that it was an opportunity to share what He did for me. Suddenly, I have a personal story to tell which automatically presents the gospel. Also, I always seek opportunities to tell others what Adventism teaches, as I would regret not having warned them. Incidently, I turned on the TV early this morning. There was Doug Bachelor in all his glory, stumping his heretical views that atonement was only a "get out of jail free" card to get a second chance to save ourselves by worshipping the seventh day sabbath. After about 10 minutes, I started feeling creepy and changed channels. (Shudder) steve | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1295 Registered: 9-2006 |
Well dear hearts, I kind of figured I my get my clock cleaned a little bit, but thats o.k. I love you anyhow and I know you love me. Now with that out of the way. So you feel that going against the bible is not sin just as long as we do it in ignorance? Just how does that work? Now Paul said he did what he did in ignorance but did he say it was not sin? Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Is this where you get that God winked at your ignorance? Better read the rest of the text where he says “but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. It might do to give Ephesians 4:17 thru 23 a read. Yes God does forgive us our sin but he does not wink at it. If so can you show me where? Folks, let me get this straight, I am accusing no one of sin, I just let the word do that. What you were when you were Adventist is between you and God. Look at Timothy I 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. Being a blasphemer, persecutor and injurious is not sin? Aw, come on folks, lets be reasonable about that. I really am not trying to offend, I just like to get to the heart of a matter without having to circle the bushes 13 times in order to get there. If I turn out to be wrong, then I will admit it readily, just show me in the word where I fail. I guess trying to get to the heart of a matter is my make-up and I hope you can stand me, I don’t pride myself on hurting people. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1296 Registered: 9-2006 |
Now I know some of you are thinking "Well now , lets just back off here a bit River" Can I really afford to back off and not look for the "truth" of Adventism seeing as I have been put in a place where I have to look at it even if the truth bothers me a bit? Sometimes I would just like to gather up my marbles and go back to being a regular old Evangelical, but how would I do that? River | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1013 Registered: 8-2004  |
 Whatever is not of faith is sin. Now is it possible to have true faith in something that is not true? | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1014 Registered: 8-2004 |
And if it's not wrong there is no need to be called to repentance. If the Adventist teachings, structure, and culture provide a full and free relationship with Jesus then why rock anyone's boat about it? It is true that Jesus said whoever is not against Me is for Me. However He also said whoever is not for Me is against Me. Sometimes it's good to look into the context of those two statements and understand which fits where. It really does come down to what we do with Jesus, and what He does and has done for us. Thank God that He calls us our of ourselves and draws us to Himself! Blessings, Mary | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1298 Registered: 9-2006 |
what so ever is not of faith in what Mary? Maybe I am sinning against my old 94 Chevy. River | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 95 Registered: 5-2007 |
The Bible tells us not to be decieved, otherwise it would be okay to be decieved. By the sda church preaching a different gospel (Jesus ministry in heaven for 18 centuries being modeled after the Levitical model, culminating in a change of compartments in 1844, and all that being triggered by Millers deception) they have invoked Galations 1:8-9 against themselves. Yep, it is sin when you are eternally condemned for this infraction.
Then what are they doing witnessing for the sda church in ANY capacity? If they do not repent of this deception, they are lending their continued influence (and cash) to the credibility of this dishonest organization. They should do what the fanatics (Ellen and James, the gospel twisters) of 1844 should have done: go back to your true-gospel-teaching church, no matter how embarrassed they might have been.
You were a witness to the world that adventism was correct, right? By being baptised into that church didn't you once agree that all 27 fundamental doctrines were correct? By conviction of the seventh day sabbath and food laws being necessary for God to approve of you, that was a false witness, in effect telling the world something that wasn't true. Did you ever pay tithe or offerings? Guess what that money did. It helped the organization spread themselves to more susceptible people, decieving them. And it maintained the salaries of a decieving hierarchy. Oh yes, adventism is truely something to be repented of! | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1015 Registered: 8-2004 |
THis is where English, and perhaps language itself, lets us down. The faith I speak of is faith in God, the Father of us all, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent: that faith that God has given each of us a measure of as a gift. We will be called to account for what we have done with that gift. Mary |
