| Author | Message | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 459 Registered: 5-2007 |
Just when I thought my wife was tolerating and accepting my going to Seventh Day Baptist church I got hit with a bombshell last night. Out of nowhere, she told me how miserable she has been since my "rebellion" and why can't I just go back to like it was before. Then she talked about us transferring to the Indonesian SDA church in Azusa, CA which is an EXTREMELY conservative, legalistic, EGW thumping church. SHe asked me WHY am I going to the SDB church which is MORE wrong than the SDA just over a few things that are wrong with the SDA church. It actually broke my heart to see her that miserable I love her so much and don't want her to be miserable. I tried to explain that I studied the Bible and just found that there were TOO MANY things that EGW and Adventism don't agree with the Bible on and that the SDB church actually follows the Bible more closely. I reminded her about that horrid 1844 and IJ quarter in EGW Indoctrination hour last year and that Elders and pastors even admitted the IJ can't be explained by the Bible alons. And I also mention on how it BOTHERS me to no end that the SDA church started out of William Miller's mistake about 1844. She just said she doesn't care about 1844, the SDBs are wrong because they don't follow the Levitical food laws and the believe in the immortality of the soul, "ghosts floating around" she called it. I tried to explain, no when we die, our souls go to be with Christ, they're not floating around here, they're with Christ and she just didn't want to hear it. She basically hears the word "Baptist" about the SDB church and closes her mind. It broke my heart to see her that unhappy. I almost caved last night, but I just CAN'T go back to believeing in Adventism. It's spirtually dead and based on a falsehood. What am I gonna do? I told her I love her so much and always will. What I am doing is for the truth, I studied the Bible and this is what I found. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6393 Registered: 12-2003  |
Reb, Jesus said that following Him would be difficult and full of pain and loss. But He also promised that anyone who leaves all he has for His sake would receive a 100 fold more in this life, and eternity in the age to come. Reb, I'm not suggesting you "leave". I'm only saying that as hard as it is for you to see your wife miserable, she needs you to be firm and truthful in your response to Jesus. If you "cave" just to keep her happy, she will still be discontented. Even if she's unhappy about your decision to follow Jesus, she will deeply respect you, and she will also see that you are more solid, more consistently loving, more of a protection for her than if you cave in to emotional pressure. Now, she may not express her deep respect all up front, but regardless, your son and she need you to be true to the Lord Jesus. YOU need to be true to the Lord Jesus. If you backtrack once you know Him, you lose spiritual authority. You are in a weaker position spiritually and integrity-wise than before you began. Reb, God will show you how to love her for Him. He will give you His strength. He will give your heart His peace. Colleen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 460 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks, Colleen. I can't cave. I'm just going to keep of loving her and show her a Christian example, maybe someday she will see. IF I were to go back to Adventism, it would be just "pretending" because I know it's hooey and could never believe it again. And wouldn't God hold me accountable for doing this if I did it? I only switched to another Sabbath "keeping" church and this is the reaction I'm getting. I can't imagine what it would've been like if I had picked a "Sunday" church. It's not just the Sabbath for Adventists. I got an e-mail from an Adventist friend this morning that had some EGW stuff from her early writings about the 144,000. And Victor Houteff was also mentioned in this as well. eeeeeeeeeeeeew, it really creeped me out. I almost "came out of the closet" to this person that sent me that e-mail and now I'm glas I didn't, they would've totally "freaked-out". But seeing that e-mail with that fanatical nonsense from EGW and Victor Houteff about the 144,000 made me realise, there's no going back to Adventism. I just wish my wife would not be miserable. I love her so much and I want her to be happy. I want so bad for her to be free in Christ with me. | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 217 Registered: 4-2002  |
Reb, No one is more miserable thnn one who is under conviction of the Holy Spirit. When He is leading one away from all that is comfortable and "safe" for them, they will be miserable and want everything to go back to the way it was. Keep living the Christian life, following Jesus and Jesus alone. Be strong in your faith and allow the Holy Spirit to do His work .. in His time. Your wife's "miserable" feelings and words may be far more than you can know. Follow Jesus. Pray for the lost. Life in faith. Never take your eyes off of Him. Not for anything or anyone. In His Grip <>< Thomas | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 461 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks, Thomas. Oh and when I told her that I really see God and worship Him when I go to Baptist Church, my wife's response was, "Satan makes things look nice, the right way is HARD". It's really a stumbling block for her. All she sees is the word "Baptist" which is "Babylonian" to the Adventists and her mind closes. I told her lovingly, you're judging it and you won't even TRY it. And this is Seventh Day Baptist Church that I attend now, NOT a Sunday Baptist. Her response was she's not going to do something "wrong" like go to an non SDA church. And keep in mind I go to a Sabbath keeping church it's just NOT SDA. The SDBs like other Baptists believe in the immortality of the soul and don't follow the Levitical food laws. I always believed in an immortal soul even when I was an Adventist. Even when I accepted all the other Adventist dotrines and belived EGW I just could NEVER accept "soul sleep". IF the Levitical food laws are so important to her, I'd compriomise and go to a Messianic Synagogue.(I visited one in Orange, CA and really liked it), though I prefer the SDB Church. I will just keep on loving her and keep my eyes on Jesus. Jesus can do ANYTHING, He will make everyhting right. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4046 Registered: 3-2004  |
Reb, I will continue to pray for you and your wife. Keep strong in God. He is with you. He brought you this far and is not going to drop you. He is truly awesome. Diana | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 453 Registered: 11-2005 |
Reb, My heart goes out to you. There is nothing like psychological pressure from one you deeply love to chip away at a person's resolve. I do believe that, no matter what happens, you have to be faithful to the influence of the Holy Spirit as God's Word is revealed to you. If she succeeds in pressuring you, she will do it again. Ultimate she will have more respect for you if you are a person of conviction. She is obviously trouble by the points that you have brought out, otherwise she would be going to the Bible to prove where you are wrong. She knows that she can't. I think it is worthy of note that you are NOT joining a denomination. Adventists are so programmed to think that security is found in identifying with a denomination -- specifically the Seventh-day Adventist denomination. Your allegiance is to Jesus, and that could ultimately lead you to fellowship with a group that is not affiliated with any denomination. There are plenty of Bible churches like that. All you are doing is fellowshipping with a particular group of people who hold a Biblical understanding that is closer to where the Holy Spirit has been leading you, than Adventism. That doesn't require you to accept everything that they believe. Just because your wife shops at a specific grocery store doesn't mean that she endorses everything they sell! Would she be willing to pray with you that both of you will be open to the leading of the Holy Spirit and God's Word, wherever that may lead you? I would not switch fellowships at this point. That will just add to the confusion. She can't use the Sabbath as a wedge because SDB's keep Saturday Sabbath. Nobody is forcing either of you to believe in immortality of the soul, or Levitical laws relating to food. I suspect she is alarmed because she has so little to stand on, and she knows it. She also has to be frightened by the inevitable reaction of her parents. We all want to please our wives. It's a fact that women have a totally different emotional makeup than men. I am hoping that more of the women here can give you clear guidance from their vantage point. Gilbert Jorgensen (Message edited by jorgfe on July 26, 2007) | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 463 Registered: 5-2007 |
I don't want to switch fellowships at this point I am 100% content in the SDB church I am attending. She wants to switch to the much more conservative Indonesian SDA church in a neighbouring city. I'm not caving. I like the SDB church much better than the SDA and have a fire for the Lord I never had before. And I do believe in the immortality of the soul and Baptists believe in individual liberty of conscience so one could be a Baptist and believe in "soul sleep" if that's what their conscience tells them but she doesn't want to listen. She hears the word "Baptist" and thinks it's "Babylon" lol(except it isn't actually funny). Thanks, Gilbert. Aren't you in a similar situation as mine, your wife is still Adventist and you are now attending a Baptist church? Are you getting similar static that I am? Just wondering. | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 53 Registered: 2-2007 |
Reb, Reb, Reb... What a situation to be in! Fortunately, hubby and I are on the same page regarding our departure from Adventism. The psychological/emtional pressure comes from our families. One brother told me (jokingly but many truths are said in jest) that he's disowned me because I'm going to church on Sunday. My MIL continually asks us if there isn't another Sabbath keeping church we could attend if we don't agree with the SDA church. It just goes on and on. I have no advice other than to keep your eye on the prize and run the good race. Your entire family is in my prayers! | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2007 |
Reb, I'm going to continue praying about your situation. She's so into adventism that she even uses the guilt trip tactics and everything, but you know the truth and the Holy Spirit is guiding you, just keep in prayer. You know what God is funny at times. You go through something that seems impossible and then out of nowhere a mircale happens. I call this the "watch this " moment. Where you go through something that seems unreachable and then boom, out of nowhere a miracle happens. Just look at this as God's set up for the "watch this" moment. LOL. Don't worry through time the Holy Spirit will guide your wife maybe through your own walk and testimony to her. Like everone else is saying, just stick to your beliefs based on the Word and don't falter and she'll come around. Remember, things that are worth it, never come easy that way in the end you'll appreciate it more. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 455 Registered: 11-2005 |
Reb, My situation is quite a bit better because since April my wife has been attending with me. She also still goes some of the time to a Bible Study class at the Seventh-day Adventist Church that is led by a lady that has attended BSFI (Bible Study Fellowship International) for 8 years. They study the Bible only. These are also lady friends that she has had for years. Recently she has started playing in the brass ensemble at the Baptist Church for both first and second service. My son is starting French Horn with them as well. I just quit going to the SDA church period last fall, and have tried hard to send a consistent signal. I consider this to be a critical move, in bringing the rest of the family out of Adventism. If I had waffled, I am sure that it would have been different. We (for the most part) try to avoid discussing highly controversial subjects because it just doesn't help us in our relationship. She knows what I think, and I leave it at that. She knows that my mind is made up, and that the Baptist church is not so bad after all. Just because we attend there doesn't mean we have to agree with everything they teach. That statement actually sounds kind of funny because in the Baptist faith there is plenty of room to disagree, and still maintain mutual respect and love. It is not a monolythic set of dogma like in Adventism. The pastors freely discuss up front areas they even disagree on. It is so refreshing! We also have an unusual situation in that she was diagnosed with Multiple Myeloma bone marrow cancer October 11, 2002 and given 1-4 years to live. Our journey has been a long one, but she is doing very well with excellent lab results after a recent stem cell transplant. I have stuck with her faithfully through it all, and she really appreciates that. It has been a time of introspection and closeness for our entire family. We are totally committed to each other, and have been married for 30 years. We started out believing everything Ellen White wrote about health, etc, and have had our eyes opened. She would not be alive today without conventional medicine. During this time the Holy Spirit was convicting both of us in separate ways that a lot of what we had been taught as Adventists simply is not Biblical, and that Ellen White was no more inspired than Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, or our cats. That experience was very stressful for us to work through -- especially on top of cancer. As you can imagine, that has had an earthshaking experience on our religious focus. It is my personal conviction that God brings us to these "Red Sea" experiences, where we are forced to re-examine the very foundations for our beliefs. It is in times like these that we feel the most helpless and willing to listen to the influence of the Holy Spirit in our lives. If it had not been for her cancer, I have no doubt it would have been much more difficult to make the transition and still maintain the integrity of our family. Having evening Bible study as a family has been a stablizing influence. It is important to use it as an opportunity to share in the study of God's Word, and not focus on areas of contention. That doesn't mean that we skip them. We just read a chapter at a time, and ask the Holy Spirit to lead us in our study. It would seem to me that anyone who even makes a pretext of being an Adventist would be willing to sit down and just share, for example, the book of John. We just read it like a story book. It's a special time together each evening. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1159 Registered: 9-2006  |
Gilbert, Thank you for sharing that. I also took note of this. Quote: I just quit going to the SDA church period last fall, and have tried hard to send a consistent signal. I consider this to be a critical move, in bringing the rest of the family out of Adventism. If I had waffled, I am sure that it would have been different. Gilbert, I believe you are pretty much right on with that. I am convinced that if a man will choose to follow God in the correct manner and will not lean from side to side, I believe he can become a powerful spiritual leader, furthermore I am so impressed by the spiritual insight and wisdom you have demonstrated in your writings on this forum for someone so soon out of Adventism. I believe it is your firm leadership and wisdom that has been a great blessing to your family. I praise God for the wonderful work he has done. It is my firm belief that we as men of God can truly "do all things through the Christ who strengthens us" but we as men also must take the responsibility to stand firm as we answer to God and are willing to be led by him and in turn lead others by our firm stand. River | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 75 Registered: 7-2007 |
Maybe I'm different, but for me all it took was to see clearly from the Bible that the SDA church contradicted it. Maybe you could show her the texts, going through the Bible about why the rule to not eat "unclean" meats was given to Israel in the first place, showing that it represented separation from the "unclean" peoples around them. And then show how the New Testament shows that there are no longer "unclean" meats, since the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile has been torn down. Is she willing to read the Bible with you? That friend who, with the Lord's help, brought me out of Adventism; brought out some other people several years ago. All it took in that case, was for them to sit down together and carefully read through the New Testament together. At times the people would say that something meant "such and so" and my friend would call them on it, saying "where does it say that in the Bible?" They therefore had to stick with just the Bible, and by the time they were done, they quit being Seventh-day Adventists. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 77 Registered: 7-2007 |
Though what the Bible teaches about food is very very clear to me, I'm not as clear on the "immortality of the soul." That's one thing that I'm "holding in tension" though I'm now leaning more in favor of it than not because of Philippians 1:21-24. It seems clear to me that the apostle Paul was anticipating being with the Lord in verse 23. (Also see 2 Corinthians 5:2-8) Anyway, you might consider pointing these texts out to her. Maybe then she would "hold them in tension" too, and be more willing to consider the possibility that the SDB church is more "right" than the SDA. Just a thought. Dianne | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1180 Registered: 4-2000  |
Gilbert, My heart is both glad and sad about your situation. Life in this world is not always fair. May God bring both physical and spiritual healing to your home. God sees every tear, and He deeply cares about you and your family. It is not easy to be a modern Job, but our sovereign God is still awesome and gracious even in the midst of a storm. No doctrine of the Christian religion is worth preserving which cannot be verified in daily life. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6400 Registered: 12-2003 |
Gilbert, thank you for sharing your situation more fully with us. I am so happy about the progress, both physically and spiritually, with your wife. As a friend of ours reminded us today, our lives are secure because Jesus, as our covenant-keeper, guarantees his promises with an oath, swearing by Himself, that He will provide all we need spiritually as well as physically. He is faithful. With prayers for you and yours, Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6401 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hey, Reb--could you email me, please, at proclamation@gmail.com? Thanks! Colleen | ||
| Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh Post Number: 177 Registered: 2-2003 |
Gilbert, I'm glad to hear your wife is doing better. You cracked me up with: " Ellen White was no more inspired than Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, or our cats." Your mention of "Red Sea" experience reminded me of a song I heard on Christian radio several years ago. Our family was dealing with serious illness at the time and it brought comfort: The Red Sea I sit and pray beside the ocean tide And I talk about the years that pass How quickly they go by At times I’ve wondered if you could hear me But I remember all the days you came To take me by your side You pulled back the Red Sea And toppled the walls of Jericho And just the same you care for me No matter where I go You saved us from the Pharaoh And led us through the desert land I'll never doubt your mighty hand Although the sound of horses roar And my backs against the shore I will never doubt your mighty hand oh God I see the earth you made the ocean wide And as the sun begins to fall till daybreak I know you'll be my guide At times I've felt alone surrounded But with unfailing love you delivered me To take me by your side (Chorus) When the waters running high I'll walk the great divide And I'll never doubt your mighty hand oh God No, I'll never doubt your mighty hand oh God I'll never doubt your mighty hand oh God music and lyrics by Ric Blair copyright 1993 | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2007 |
Reb, I believe that our greatest witness is our love for Jesus. We can argue doctrine until we are blue in the face but one cannot argue against a life that is in love with the Lord and is changed because of that love. Your greatest strength right now is loving her unconditionally. Remember that the greatest commandment is first to love the Lord with your heart, soul and mind and then to love others. The changes in your family dynamics are huge for both of you but you have a family (us) praying for you and a God that wants to free her just as he has freed you. Stand firm in your freedom and remember that light will win over darkness Praying Blessed | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 458 Registered: 11-2005 |
Leigh, What a great song! I really like the message. That was so nice of you! It is when we are down that the only way to look is up. Gilbert Jorgensen |
