| Author | Message | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 409 Registered: 5-2007 |
The past Sabbath I attended SDA church with my wife. And I still sing with the choir there to help them out. The choir sang for the communion service and while we were practicing , I was asked if I could do the scripture reading and prayer for EGW Indoctrination Hour(Sabbath School) the next Sabbath. I said, sorry I won't be there next Sabbath(I plan on going to SDB church and was really looking forward to it). Well, I stayed for choir practice and apparantly the choir is singing next week too. As I was leaving the choir director asking me please come next week and I said ok as alright I'll help them out.(I just missed slipping out of there before this happened.) So I decided I'll go just for worship and skip EGW Indoctrination Hour and them Maybe Sunday I'll visit the Orthodox Church I visited before I started going to SDB church just so I can detox from Adventist nonsense. And then the next week I'll just tell my wife I'm going to SDB church and meet her at the SDA church afterwards like I did a previous Sabbath. Adventism sure is hard to get away from. SOmetime I feel like poor little Io being pulled on by Jupiter's gravity. But I see my wife getting more tolerant. Last Sabbath morning we were talking about Orthodox Church for some reason. And I mention that I believe that the Orthodox is actually the Church the Apostles founded, the original one. She didn't argue but asked me why don't they "keep the Sabbath" MY response was they worship on Sunday to commemorate Christ's resurrection as that is the day He rose. And she didn't argue with me. Have I planted a seed here? Orthodox Church was actually my first choice but I didn't think my wife would accept it so I settled on SDB for now which I have been happy with. But who knows where the Lord will eventually lead me and maybe my wife IS listening. I really think my son going to Catholic school is going to produce a real breakthrough here. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 982 Registered: 8-2004  |
I'm not surprised that they are finding ways to involve you. If they can make you feel indispensable perhaps in your busy-ness you'll have a 'breakthrough epiphany' that will bring you back to SDAism lock, stock, and barrel. Hang in there, and especially hang on to Jesus. Ask God to make Himself more real to you than anything and anyone around you. Ask Him to fill your life and to work in you for His glory. Ask Him to give you strength and grace to obey His still small voice, no matter how difficult, and above all to keep you hidden deep inside His will. He is faithful who called you, who also will do it. Mary | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 413 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks, Mary. I am going to sing with the choir next Sababth as an act of friendship, nothing more nothing less. Then on Sunday I am going to visit the Eastern Orthodox church I used to visit early in my days after leaving Adventism to "detoxify" myself. Then I am going to make a deal with my wife to go to SDB church the next Sabbath and meet her at SDA church afterwards like I have done before. There is NO WAY I am going back to being an Adventists. I am too convinced it's hooey. The only "epiphany" I can see happening as that Adventism is even more false. I am clinging tightly to Jesus. He IS faithful | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1599 Registered: 7-2003 |
Is it possible your wife has some inner hopes that your activities and willingness to be involved in the sda church is 'hope' to her that you might come back? I suspect it's hard to generalize on anyone, but if I were her, I would find your participation as possible hope you would come back and 'forget' all the non-sense that bothers you. Words and actions have to be consistent or you send mixed messages. She may know you well enough to know that's not true, but if'n it were me, I'd find hope that you were still willng to participate in the services that perhaps you weren't 'too lost'. I'm not telling you what to do or not do, just offering an observation as a 'died in the wool' female.  Just be careful of what you say with your actions that might conflict with your words. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 414 Registered: 5-2007 |
I don't think so. She is well aware that I am past the point of ever being able to "buy" the Adventist nonsense anymore. In fact, I see signs that she may be beginning to question Adventism herself. This past weeekend she even told some Adventists that were EGW-thumping to go with what the Bible says NOT EGW. I think I'm getting through to her. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1600 Registered: 7-2003 |
That's supposed to be 'dyed in the wool', but the other was supposed to be funny Kindof loses its humor in print. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6365 Registered: 12-2003  |
It's a funny thing about Adventists, Reb--they almost don't care if you don't buy Adventism intellectually. Involvement is more important than internal commitment. Melissa and Mary have made excellent points; your continued involvement, even just as gestures of good will, are interpreted as your being connected to them because you want to be deep down inside. Truly, they really don't mind that you don't buy the theology. What matters is that you are going, participating, and appearing to involve yourself. Motives don't matter...they believe that as long as you're there and involved, you will eventually give them your heart. Further, as long as you're there and participating, they know you can't freely give your heart to any other congregation, either. You'd be conflicted. You just need to know that your participation, whether or not your head "buys" the theology, is seen as their "gaining ground". It's more important to have people present and involved than to have them deeply committed. They believe that as long as you stay present and involved, you'll come around by the time the Time of Trouble proves them right. I agree with Melissa that you're risking giving your wife and certainly the church "false hope". Colleen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 426 Registered: 11-2005 |
Reb, I also agree with Colleen and Melissa. If, after being gone for 9 months, I reappeared at the SDA church I used to attend, it would send a confirming signal to them that at least I'm coming back to "the fold". It validates that the SDA church is not "so bad" after all. I firmly believe that the SDA church is not about theology. It is about self preservation -- at any cost. It's hard to "dance with the devil" without "getting bit". I haven't attended in 9 months, and if I showed up they would welcome me like a lost sheep (in spite of all the copies of Cultic Doctrine and Sabbath in Christ that I passed out to members, elders and the pastor). The other two concerns I would have are the influence it would have on my wife and son. It would really confuse my wife, because "If I don't believe in it, why am I there?" Perhaps, just maybe, there is hope after all. In the case of my 12-year-old son, while I am attending (who knows why?!), they are planting garbage in my son's head. He isn't going to analyze it from a doctrinal perspective, just that it was an enjoyable experience. The bottom line is that the message is communicated that a "compromise" IS indeed a workable solution. Like a recent Review article pointed out, "Why not keep Sabbath and also worship on Sunday?" Michael Card was held up as an example of one who does just that. (http://www.adventistreview.org/2003-1516/story4.html) If I was single, I would probably attend Sabbath School (not church) just to do as Paul did by attending the Synagogue each Sabbath to preach the gospel. For example, in the 3Q 2006 Adult SS Lesson Study on 1844 and the Investigative Judgment, about 80% of us were openly questioning both Clifford Goldstein's logic and motives. Two of the three teachers even stated that they could no longer go along with Ellen White's viewpoint. This is a potent witness, and certainly causes people to start comparing the Bible and EGW. Such as witness can not effectively be carried on however, if a spouse is still active in the host SDA church. It is especially a problem if children are being "attracted" at the same time. It is like taking my family to a bar to "witness" if my wife were already an alcoholic. I have found that the best thing for me to do was to totally cut off attending the SDA church anymore. That eliminates the influence on my children -- which is absolutely critical. It also sends a clear signal to my wife on where I stand. I am not "waffling". I am not pretending that I can be a part of both organizations at the same time. She started attending with me each Sunday a little while back, and now even plays in the brass ensemble for both first and second service! She still goes to the SDA church about 1/2 the time. And when she does, she goes by herself. The transition is not, as I see it, one based on the merits of theological arguments, but one of convenience and where the rest of us go. As time goes on the gulf between our Baptist fellowship and the receding shoreline of Adventism grows further and further away. As a result, my wife begins to notice more and more the differences. The Holy Spirit is the One that does the leading, and not my theological arguments, or browbeating Ellen White to her. Another important component has been evening family worship where we take turns reading parts of a chapter in the Bible each evening. Recently we completed the book of John. We are now in Acts. Yesterday we prayed, took turns reading Acts 20, and closed with prayer. We will continue with Romans, and the rest of the books. We often briefly discuss the content, but try to intentionally avoid using it as a springboard for advancing our viewpoints. It is a time to fellowship together as a family. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 420 Registered: 5-2007 |
I think you make valid points, Gilbert and Colleen. I wish I had either been able to slip out before the choir director had a chance to remind me about next Sabbath and I probably should have just said I can't. But since I said I would I've got to keep my word. The choir director is one that I haven't come "out of the closet" to. Only a few people at the Adventist church know that I actually no longer believe in it. As I was still attending sometimes with my wife it may not seem like I'm really "gone". When I was gone several Sabbaths in a row there was talk of people doing a "visitation" to my house where I might wind up "coming out of the closet" to people I don't want to "come out of the closet" to. I have a really tight balancing act right now and I have to be careful. I am worried about what might happen if people find out that I'm not ready to let the cat out of the bag to yet. | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 594 Registered: 3-2001 |
Hmm, now that's a thought <smile>
Reb, why the secrecy? You say your goal is to be a witness, but it seems you're trying to do this as a "secret agent." How would anyone get any idea other than the fact that you are fully supportive of Adventist theology, if that is the message that you are portraying outwardly?
Reb my bluntness has gotten me in trouble before, but I just can't sugar coat it. The way you're behaving is similar to Adventist's evangelism modus operndi (sp?). Nothing is ever as it appears to be. There is always a hidden agenda. I implore you to be true to yourself. Leave your wife and the other members of the church to the Holy Spirit. If they have a problem with who you are or what you believe, then so be it. As it is, it sounds like you have the weight of the world on your shoulder, trying to make "it" okay for everyone else. Listen to the words of Jesus, "...take my yoke upon you, for my yoke is easy and my burdens are light." Hey Reb, how about exchanging that boulder for a pebble. Spoken in Love Doug | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 422 Registered: 5-2007 |
It's ok Doug. I know you're right. It is a boulder on me right now and I don't like it much. And by being "in the closet" except with my wife and a few other people I trust I am not being true to myself. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4030 Registered: 3-2004  |
You made a committment that for you is not good. It is okay to break those committments. I would call the choir director and just say, I cannot be there on Saturday. No reason, no explanation. You owe him nothing. Just my take on this. Diana | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 427 Registered: 11-2005 |
Diana, That is perfect. And Doug, you have very good advice as well. Reb - It would seem to me like all this vascilating has got to be confusing for both your son and your wife. You send a very mixed signal. There are many people that only attend the SDA church occasionally. That is far different from "coming out of the closet" as you call it, and taking a stand for what you believe in. As the head of the house, your wife looks to you for leadership. If not you, then to whom? Think of others who continue to hang on to Adventism that you could be a witness to. If I had been very secretive about my beliefs I could not have sowed the seed that I did before I left. Paul and Silas were not "closet Christians". They spoke boldly for the One who had shed His blood for them. Please don't take this wrong. I just feel very strongly about sharing my views with you. You send your son, your wife and others who learn later a very mixed message. You have nothing to hide. For starters, follow Diana's suggestion. Just call and tell the choir director that a scheduling conflict has come up, and you won't be there next Saturday. Then don't go back. It doesn't sound like you are using the opportunity to witness and let everyone know where you stand anyway. I personally would continue going to the Seventh-day Baptist fellowship since that has been where you have been going. They don't make the Sabbath the salvational issue that Adventism does, and it can be addressed later. It will likely be a big psychological hurdle for your wife to consider changing to Sunday, if you both do. It will be much easier to consider in a rational manner without all the additional Adventist baggage. Your wife and son both need to see some stability and leadership. After you have attended SB for a year or so and been able to detach your self more emotionally from the Adventist church then perhaps continue looking around. Your son especially needs to see stability and confidence in your leadership. I say this in Christian love. Please forgive me if I have overstepped my bounds. In love, Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4032 Registered: 3-2004 |
Reb, do not even say that you have a scheduling conflict unless you want to tell him that you will be at another church at that time. He does not need any explanation. Just call him and say you cannot be there. Period. God bless you brother. Leaving adventism should not be this hard, but it is. God is with you. And He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 257 Registered: 1-2004  |
I know how you feel, Reb. I went to church regularly for a couple years after I knew I wasn't SDA anymore. I did covert research and told only my closest friends for at least 2-3 years! But it was really great to finally make the break. Of course, I'm just a single guy. Jeremiah | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 423 Registered: 5-2007 |
I am thinking about this. I don't have the choir director's phone number so I can't call him. I might just go this one more time and then not come back. I hate breaking my word - I should have just said no. Problem is too that my wife wants me to go with her sometimes and I am greatful for her at least being cool about my switching to SDB. What you suggested, Gilbert is actually what I WANT to do and no you are not overstepping your bounds you are right. I think if I do wind up going and keeping my committment this Sabbath I will just "come out of the closet" and be a witness. But I have to send a consistent message you are right. It's hard to stop going to Adventist Church completely when my wife still expects me to go there with her sometimes. She doesn't even want to try the SDB church because they don't believe in "soul sleep" and don't keep the Levitical food laws but she at least lets me go to it. Maybe I will just have to find a way to be diplomatic about this Sabbath and not go to SDA church but go to SDB instead like I have been. Problem is I don't think my wife is going to let me stop going to SDA church completely for a while at least. It's hard, it's really hard. I don't want to lose the small gains I've made by doing somehting she might see as drastic either. | ||
| Sara Registered user Username: Sara Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2007 |
Reb, I remember being where you are. It is a difficult journey, and not always a straight path. It seems obvious from the other side, but I was a confused mess in the journey out. It will get easier. And it is all worth it. Jesus, and Jesus alone, is worth it all. Remember to spend as much or more time seeking Him as you do in looking for answers to questions. He is the answer. Time in His presence has to come first. Its how we get strength. Now I am going to go practice what I preach!. So from one who has been there, with one foot in and one foot out, and being pulled both ways, I understand. I will pray for you! Its so much better than before, being totally free. Sara | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 595 Registered: 3-2001 |
Reb, Just think of it this way. If you come "out of the closet," you are not precluded from attending with your wife. However, you will be there as a non-Adventist, not as a pretend Adventist. There are a few people here who go to SDA spouses or family members. My wife visits from time to time at her mother's church. The difference is that everyone knows exactly where she stands. Its not something that will come back five years from now where people feel betrayed because she "deceived" (a very strong wor, and I'm only using it because I can't think of a better one) them all this time. I think you will find trememdous freedom in being pen about where you are. BTW, I attended an Adventist Church and my current church for about a year (maybe two) before I actually left. I felt like I owed it to them to finish out the year in the offices I was holding (it was a small church that depended on a small core of people to do most everything). When the nominating committee time came around again, I politiely refused all offices. I told them that I wasn't going to serve in the upcoming year. No further explanation. My plan was to work from the inside, but after only about 2 weeks, I knew I couldn't do it, and I left for good. I realized the foolishness of trying to have my feet in both camps. It was the best decision I ever made. Doug | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 277 Registered: 7-2005  |
After I left Adventism, I completely stayed away from the SDA church for almost two years, even though my husband has continued to attend the SDA church faithfully. After leaving, I quickly found a wonderful mainstream Protestant Sunday church that I've been attending very faithfully ever since then. However, from the very first week after I left Adventism, the Holy Spirit spoke to my heart repeatedly that some day He was going to send me back to the SDA church with my husband. I really didn't like the thought at all. But the Lord told me He wouldn't ask that of me until I was firmly established in my new church. Then one day recently, I KNEW it was time to go back to attending with my husband. Now, mind you, I still attend my Sunday church just as faithfully and find a tremendous amount of satisfaction and spiritual growth there. My attendance at the SDA church is ONLY as an ambassador for Christ and an ambassador from mainstream Protestant Christianity. In no way am I ever going to be a 'citizen' of Adventism again and I intend to make that clear in my conversations with the Adventists. The first day I want back to the SDA church with my husband, many of the folks hugged me and told me how good it was to see me again. And I admit it was good to see them too. They are, after all, precious souls to God and to me. A couple of them told me they had been praying and praying for me that I would come back. My response was, "Be careful what you pray for!" My husband knew exactly what I meant, but he is still happy I'm back by his side. I've been back about 4 weeks now, and so far I've only told one person that I've also been attending a Sunday church. I told her I really like it, but I also like my husband and all the people there. She received it quite well, but she herself has a history of being raised SDA, then attending a Sunday Baptist church for many years, before going back to Adventism. I am trusting the Lord to protect my mind from docrinal errors. He has made ample provision for my mental involvement in good doctrine at my Sunday church and with the many excellent radio broadcasts available in my area. I listen every day to Alistair Begg, John MacArthur, and Michael Yousef. I listen sporadically to R. C. Sproul, D. James Kennedy, Chuck Smith, and Charles Stanley. I pray the Lord gives me opportunities to plant seeds in the minds of questioning Adventists that will cause them to question even more. One big consideration for me though is that we have no children in the home any more. They're all grown and doing their own things. None are Adventists any more. Having children still at home would change things entirely. I don't have the answer for you, Reb. Only God does. I just thought my angle might help you a little bit. But keep seeking God. He'll guide and direct you on the very best path. Honestwitness | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 278 Registered: 7-2005 |
One more thought, Reb. Adventists are so good at cloistering themselves away from other Christians that sometimes the only way they will ever have any contact with them is if some of us are brave enough to go to them and mix with them. They need to see and touch the very thing they have been taught to fear. I believe that is why the Lord led me into Adventism and left me there for so many years. I needed to learn to understand them in order to be an effective witness to them of what real Christianity looks and sounds like. A witness is not responsible for the verdict, but is responsible for giving an honest witness. I am determined to be an honest representation of mainstream Protestant Christianity, so they can see a living, breathing example of it. It is up to them how they respond. God doesn't want them to have any excuse if they refuse to accept His Bible as the highest authority. At least He can say, "I showed you someone who confidently stated that, even if she never heard of Ellen White or read a single word she ever wrote, she would still be a Christian, saved by the blood of Jesus." Honestwitness |
