| Author | Message | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 427 Registered: 5-2007 |
Oh the lengths Adventists will go to to defend EGW and now Doug Batchelor. I started a threag on CARM called Doug Batchelor's Amazing Baloney where I mentioned the stuff he wrote on his Amazing Facts webisite about the Trinity and the blasphemous things he said about Jesus that sicken me so I just don't want to repeat them again. And ya know what! Instead of thinking, hey maybe something's wrong with this, EVERY SINGLE ADVENTIST that posted on that thread DEFENDED Batchelor and the GARBAGE he spewed! I'm beginning to wonder, WHAT is WRONG with them?? Can't they see this is BLASPHEMY???? Are they ROBOTS???? I think I just might show this stuff to my wife and tell her look, I'm NOT going to SDA church ANYMORE with her, period. I will go to SDB and meet her there afterwards. And I do not think I will go this Sabbath either, forget about the choir, they'll be just fine without me. I've HAD it with Adventism, period. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 869 Registered: 1-2003 |
I sat in an SDA pew for about a year after I was liberated simply to keep peace in the family. It got to where I couldn't stand it anymore. The half texts or texts out of context to make it fit SDA theology. The sermons that were confounded...made absolutely no sense...and no one noticed or cared! Why? Because it is simply enough to be warming an SDA pew on Saturday (Sabbath)...that is what they think saves you! Forget that the kids are talking and playing video games and eating! Forget half of the people don't bring bibles and are alseep! Forget that all you hear is "Happy Sabbath!" Long prayers and sermons about the blessing of the Sabbath...No Jesus anywhere!!! I once heard an SDA preacher say we would "self-destruct" without the Sabbath. (Not Jesus or the salvation He offers us!!!) I couldn't stomach it anymore, family or not!!!! I was outa there! | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 429 Registered: 5-2007 |
I'm at the point now where I just can no longer stomach it. I also think I'll "come out of the closet" to everyone at that SDA church and let them think what they will about me. I'm NOT an Adventist anymore, I've considered myself to be a Seventh Day Baptist for at least the past couple of months. I have to be true to what I believe. | ||
| Sara Registered user Username: Sara Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2007 |
Reb, I will continue to pray for you in this situation, that God will be with you, and give you grace to speak humbly and gently to those still decieved. From my experience, telling people I was leaving due the "baloney" or similar statements, just led to defensiveness. An invitation to "come and see" and visit your church, would be bold, but usually either shuts the other down completely, or plants a seed. I have recently begun to invite others, and am surpirsed at who says yes, or maybe. Telling about my relationship with Jesus when I began to rely on the truth of the Bible alone, my discoveries in the Word of God about the Gospel and Grace and Jesus' finished work, and my experience of life guided by the Holy Spirit, appears to be more of an effective witness. The joy in you, as you follow Jesus alone, and be true to what you believe, is attractive. (Threatening, yes, but still irresistable). Much grace and peace to you. Sara | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 433 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks, Sara. And yes, I need to remind myself to be humble and gentle with Adventists about this. With my wife I've been telling her how much more peace and more calm I am since going to SDB church and isn't she curious as to why. She's still resisting but I have to hope...one day. | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 177 Registered: 10-2006 |
Don't forget Reb, Adventist folks need to discover a saving Jesus. If they don't have an understanding of the Gospel and New Covenant, you could stand there all day and beat them over the head with a 2X4 and all you would get would be sweaty and tired. This is Christ's battle...be patient, be kind, listen closely and take notes. Do not burn personal bridges, they will come to you some day for answers in God's good time. steve | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 42 Registered: 6-2007 |
Pheeki I completely agree with you. I was shocked when we left SDA and started attending a Methodist church. Adventists like to think they are so reverant in the sanctuary but they are NOT. The SDA church we left was awful. Constant talking, chattering, whispering. Constant eating (kids and adults). Everyone drinking bottles of water, not just sipping, but tipping their head back and guzzling. Kids crying, yelling, throwing fits. Adults and kids continuously coming and going throughout the service. Everyone playing with their phone, palm, electronic bible. Puzzles, games, felt pieces. It was crazy. And of course.... 75% of the adults sleeping. The church we are attending is very contemporary and yet very quiet and reverant. First of all, all the kids, from infant to middle school, are in their own class. Nobody talks, or comes and goes. It is night and day from the SDA church. Laurie | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1137 Registered: 9-2006  |
Good grief Laurie, and they talk about tongues disturbing a serve! Wow!! I never knew that went on anywhere! River | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 101 Registered: 4-2007 |
The little church I attend must be the same one Lauries talking about-zero control of the children and an absolute lack of concern about a screaming baby as well as the chugging of water, snacks in noisy plastic and hard toys banging on the pews plus the adults wondering about and cell phones ringing - to say that this particular church treats the sanctuary casually would be an example of British understatement. JONVIL | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 45 Registered: 6-2007 |
The funny thing is that they think they are so reverant. They talk like being in the sanctuary is like being in the "most holy place", yet they are the most irreverant group I have ever seen. My husband and I were actively involved in VBS before we left. It was the only time, once a year, that the SDA kids actually sang, danced, laughed, and had fun at church. Every year we had all the old people standing in the back of the church while we decorated ( they said desecrated) the sanctuary for VBS. We hung streamers, balloons, decorated the walls, the ceilings, doors, piano, organ, the entire stage. It was awesome. But, OOOOOOOHHHHH the grief we took for it. I just had to laugh at them while they gave me grief and then acted like they did every sabbath during the worship service. Laurie | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 597 Registered: 3-2001 |
Wow, this describes the SDA Church that I last went to perfectly. And I now go to a "Mega Church" with about 1,000 people in each service and its just as Laurie described in her current church. I always thought the SDA Church I went too was just unruly. Now I am seeing maybe there is more to it than I thought. Doug | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 690 Registered: 6-2006  |
Laurie, it's so funny, the SDA church my in-laws go to is the same exact way!! I haven't visited in a year, but every time we went there were unruly kids, people coming and going, whispering, and sleeping! What makes me laugh though, is that some of my in-laws were having a cow over people who clapped after the special music. My sil had such a fit that she had a letter published in the monthly newsletter about the evils of clapping in church. I told my mother-in-law that the devil was probably laughing his head off over that.  Leigh Anne (Message edited by grace_alone on July 24, 2007) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1139 Registered: 9-2006 |
When the Holy Spirit is in a group of people there is a sense of worship. We clap our hands to the hymns many times and you will see hands raise in worship, we feel at home in our church but we give God reverence there, the children are cut loose for children's about 30 minutes into the service, we start service at 10:30 and go to 12:00. Not saying thats how to do it, just saying how it goes in there. We don't hold conversations during any part of that service, cell phones are turned off. Folks I just don't think the Holy Spirit is in these people if it is as you say. If he was it would be diffrent, first of all they need salvation. If the Holy Spirit is not in them they are not as yet saved. I hope that I am wrong, but I don't believe I am, sadly. I am going to start praying for salvation for my friends. Folks the longer I am in this the worse it gets and it got bad way back down the line. Every time I learn something new or read a new story I say "Lord, that just about takes the cake" and then I learn something else. River | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 797 Registered: 7-2004  |
In our church parents have the option of having young kids with them through the church service or in Sunday School that is offered both services. Even though there are several kids in the service every week, they are not the least bit loud or unruly. Unless it would be considered unruly that one group of little girls who sit together jump up and down in time to the music with big smiles on their faces and make their dolls jump up and down with them. I always think that is so cute to see such enthusiasm. During the sermon, the kids are generally just content and peaceful. I agree that is a huge difference from the SDA churches we've been to. And our kids were certainly contributing to the problem many of those times. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 441 Registered: 5-2007 |
They have Childrens' church at the SDB church I now attend. What a difference from the SDA church. SDA church is SO BORING you can't really blame these little kids that are FORCED to be there for being unruly. WHen I have to be there I am so bored I either doodle or do math. At the SDB church it is so alive and the sermons are anything but boring and the little kids are in childrens' church so there's no noise. Vive la difference! | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 691 Registered: 6-2006 |
You know, in my experience at the SDA church my family goes to it doesn't strike me at all as a worship service, and with the exception of a very liberal pastor I knew it never has. The pastor was great, read a lot and respected other faiths openly during some of his sermons. Know what happened? One of the members walked up to him after church one sabbath and took a swing at him! Most of the times all I heard were instructions on how to live and keep all the rules. One pastor recited "Sister White" on a weekly basis. Someone here once called the services "self gratifying" and I totally agree. Sadly it's not about Jesus, it's not about stepping out of your element and focusing on the Lord each week. I can't label all SDA churches this way, but this has been what I've seen at our family's church, and there is such a dour spirit as a result. Leigh Anne | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 446 Registered: 5-2007 |
You are so right, Leigh Anne! I really feel the Spirit when I go to SDB Church. When I have to attend SDA Church with my wife I feel nothing. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6383 Registered: 12-2003  |
River, you are right. And I agree that the prayer for our entrenched SDA friends is that they will be saved. I know this stance makes some people angry; nevertheless, the fact that the Holy Spirit is not as openly present in their worship services is evidence. [bold type added by Colleen to clarify] I have to say again, River, it is hard to explain how deeply gratifying it is to observe you understanding the evidence about Adventism's deception at deeper and deeper levels. SO MANY people find ways to explain away the reality of Adventism's clever deception. A former SDA friend of mine just told me yesterday that a Christian she knows said to her recently, "I was raised very similarly to you; I didn't know Jesus until later in life." She said to me, "He really doesn't 'get it'." You get it, River, and your "getting it" is more affirming of us than you know. Thank you. Colleen (Message edited by admin on July 25, 2007) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4041 Registered: 3-2004  |
I would not say the Holy Spirit is not present in SDA services. He is, as I see it. He brought each of us on here out of adventism. He is just not as prominent as He is in other churches. I know he was with me the last Christmas at the SDA church in Vegas. The SS members were volunteering to help with a prophecy seminar and I COULD NOT RAISE MY HAND. That was the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is there working on the adventists in His and God's way. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6391 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, Diana, He is present, but not in the same way He is at a service that is not compromised with deception. I obviously didn't state my understanding very well in my last post. The Holy Spirit definitely is with individuals, and He works with individuals in His own way in His own time--no matter where they are! Again, it's the difference between Adventists and Adventism. God is so at work in Adventists' lives. We are proof of that! Undoubtedly, there are some services at some churches sometimes where He is more powerfully present than at others--especially if there are people there who are honoring Him publicly. But generally, Adventist services are not alive with His presence in the way many other churches' services are. Since Ephesians is very clear that those who are born of the Spirit are being built in Him as a holy temple to the Lord, since Peter is clear that we believers are living stones being built into a living temple, it makes sense why God's Spirit is palpably present in groups where most of the people are alive in Christ. The issue is not the church itself--nor even the denomination. When He is working in a person's heart, He goes wherever to reach them--even into the movie theater! God is not limited by theology or denomination. He IS, and He is present in every person who is His. The difference between most Adventist church services and many Christian church services is palpable, though, as many above have testified. But this difference says absolutely NOTHING about His work in individual lives. Colleen (Message edited by Colleentinker on July 25, 2007) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1151 Registered: 9-2006 |
Here’s what I know about this friends, or at least I think I know, Just because I speak in tongues and have experienced the gifts working in my life doesn’t mean I have a better hang on the Holy Spirit so I don’t want any of you to think that I think that. So here is what I think, the Holy Spirit does dwell in born again Christians, unsaved people are a stranger to this. When several born again Christians gather to worship, Christ is foremost, that is what they are there for, the Bible says that where two or three are gathered together in his name there he will be in their MIDST, most Christians gather together in his name, Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. So when we gather together in Christ name, even two or three, there he will be, he said that, not me. When you get a group of people gathered together “in his name” he is there in his power and his power and presence can be felt, it is not an imaginary thing to be put down as nothing, he is there and he is real. When he is amongst and in the midst of a group of people there will be a sense of reverence and awe, it will get hushed and a sense of Godly fear will be present in most there, at least in the greater part, there being some who are not there to gather together “in his name”. Now when you take a people that have gathered together in the name of Sabbath, Adventism or tradition, his presence will not be felt unless there is one that gathered in his name then he will only be with that one. Now I may not be an expert on the Holy Spirit but I am not completely ignorant of him either. I may be dumb but I know the difference between the Holy Spirits presence and a dry run. I have been to these churches where they go through the motions of tradition, they go through the dry formalities, there is no awareness of the Lords presence, it is bereft of the life the Holy Spirit of the Lord brings to an occasion. If a people has gathered together in the name of the Sabbath, Adventism and demand of others or tradition then they have not gathered together in his name. Its as simple as that and they will not experience that blessed presence, what several have given witness to assures me that this is the case, they have not gathered together in his name I don’t care if they do pray long prayers asking him to bless whatever they are doing, it will not fly. You can drink wine and eat bread, count tassels, mumble two thousand year old prayers, tell how great it is to be a whatever you are, Adventist, Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, don’t matter, go through the formalities just like grandpa did. You can be steeped in your traditions till it comes out your ears, talk all you want about how right your church does it, but in my opinion without the Lords presence we might have well just went to 7-11 and bought a big gulp and watched the ball game. The Lords Holy Ghost cannot be conjured up, or brought in by repetition, throwing holy water around, extolling the writings of EGW, extolling the virtues of Adventism, singing, stomping your feet, repeating the same line of a song for twenty minutes, chanting, he will show up when we are gathered together to magnify him, he is not going to impart his glory to the name of anything or anyone else and he is not going to give his glory to another, he is deserving of all glory. His presence is not as prominent as in other churches where they have gathered together in his name to worship him, and may be lacking altogether unless there is someone there to worship him in Spirit and truth. He is there to save but not to impart blessing on a people who have not gathered together in his name to worship him. If you feel that his name is present and foremost in the hearts of those people then it might be the better part of valor just to let them alone and not be telling anybody how bad Adventism is on here or anywhere else. Far as I can tell the worship he desires is of those who are willing to worship him in Spirit and in truth, when we do that his presence will be known. That pretty much leaves tradition and formality out the door, pretty much leaves people steeped in heresy out the door too in my view of it. Like Colleen so aptly put it ” But this difference says absolutely NOTHING about His work in individual lives.” What we ARE talking about is the Lords presence among his people who gather together in his name and put him foremost and to extol and magnify his name. What has been my experience is that his presence is a palpable and living presence and this presence will not bring people to sleep, make noise, and all the things that have been described here by more than just one person. Now this is all just my opinion, I am not taking up a collection. River | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 151 Registered: 7-2000 |
Hey River, I am no tongue-speaking, Pentecostal, Charismatic, christian. I am just an ordinary, born-again, regenerated, Holy Spirit breathing, joyful in the Lord, christian. HOWEVER, Me-think, what River thinks. You said, and I you quote below. ..."Now I may not be an expert on the Holy Spirit but I am not completely ignorant of him either. I may be dumb but I know the difference between the Holy Spirits presence and a dry run. The Lords Holy Ghost cannot be conjured up, or brought in by repetition, throwing holy water around, extolling the writings of EGW, extolling the virtues of Adventism, singing, stomping your feet, repeating the same line of a song for twenty minutes, chanting, he will show up when we are gathered together to magnify him, he is not going to impart his glory to the name of anything or anyone else and he is not going to give his glory to another, he is deserving of all glory." River, I agree with you. Besides, not only Misery, but "Dumb" (like me) loves company too. Erma (Message edited by bmorgan on July 26, 2007) |
