| Author | Message | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 369 Registered: 5-2007 |
I just had a thought about how EGW and Adventism twisted Church history to support their Sabbath idea: EGWs error about the Pope changing the Sabbath to Sunday. Christians were worshipping on Sunday YEARS before there ever was a real Pope and years before Constantine. One of their own scholars, Dr. Sam Bacchiochi even came up with this as we are well aware. EGW claimed the Waldenses kept the Sabbath because they were known as Insabbati. Wrongo! EGW was no linguist, Insabbati means "sandal wearers" because the Waldenses wore sandals rather than shoes as an act of humility. This had NOTHING to do with the Jewish Sabbath which they Walsdenses did NOT keep, by the way. EGW got it wrong about WHY Martin Luther joined a monastary. She it was because Luther saw a Latin Bible in the University library and was so drawn to it he decided to join a monastary. Wrong again! Luther joined a monastary after surviving a lightning storm and promising his patron saint if he survived this he would join a monastary. Adventists also have it wrong about St. Columba a British saint from the 6th century. They claim he was killed for worshipping on the Sabbath. Wrong again. St. Columba died of OLD AGE worshipped on Sunday like other Christians of his time and was known as the warrior saint. They'll do anything to support their Sabbath idol. You should see how they are on CARM! No matter what the thread is about it soon winds up being about the Sabbath. (Message edited by Reb on July 17, 2007) (Message edited by Reb on July 17, 2007) | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1159 Registered: 4-2000  |
Fanaticism, especially religious fanaticism, is generally centered on one area or topic. Like an old-time record, the needle gets stuck in one groove and it keeps repeating. Moreover, this type of religious fanaticism reveals a weak theology that needs to be hammered on unendingly to draw attention to its irrelevance. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 372 Registered: 5-2007 |
Actually I have a correction about St. Columba. Apparantly the Adventists don't allege he was killed for keeping the Sabbath but that he died on a Sabbath day and said how he believed in the Sabbath and how appropriate that he would be going to his rest on that day. Still the historical fact is that apparantly he didn't die on the Sabbath and didn't keep the Sabbath, either. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2007 |
I've been writing back and forth to my mother who is a firm believing SDA. In the latest letter I contrasted the Sabbath to the Holy Spirit because Ellen White says that the Sabbath is the seal of God, though the Bible says that the Holy Spirit is the Seal. "...in Whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise," Ephesians 1:13 I told Mother that the Sabbath is the sign of the old covenant (Exodus 31:13) Ellen White would have us believe that those who have the Sabbath in the end will be saved. It says though in Romans 8:9 that "if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." Ephesians 1:14 goes on to say that the Holy Spirit is the "guarantee of our inheritance." It's kind of frustrating to write over and over again to relatives who just don't seem to "get" it, but with the Lord's help, I need to keep on tactfully writing them. I want to see them in Heaven! (I'm ever so grateful that someone kept "pounding" on me over the period of two years that it took for me to "get" it. Actually this friend told me later that she was finally getting discouraged and asked the Lord what she should do. The Lord told her to wait until I asked a certain thing concerning Michael the archangel. It seemed like forever to her before I asked though; but when I did, that was, (for me) the first thing that caused me to look into it and see that the Adventist church was a false church.) Dianne | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 393 Registered: 11-2005 |
From http://www.ellenwhite.org/canright/can4.htm
Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6310 Registered: 12-2003  |
Those visions were certainly convenient means of authenticating all those spurious doctrines the founders compiled into a set of beliefs! Colleen | ||
| Treasurehntr Registered user Username: Treasurehntr Post Number: 18 Registered: 7-2007 |
There is truth in Adventism, however it is poluted truth. A slick presentation can make it look very convincing on paper. In fact, Adventism reminds me quite a bit of the early Christian vs gnostic heresies, where secret knowledge is promised to the initiated. Adventism makes a deadly bargain, the suspension of critical thinking in return for fear. Holding onto heresy believed to be true while ignoring the obvious such as making excuses for EGW. All this because it might be from God. Fear is a very good tool to keep members in check. Adventism endorses the Josiah Litch prophetic interpretation that called for the Ottoman Empire to fall in the summer of 1840. Didn't happen but it still has its stamp of approval in the Great Controversy. EGW also got the moons of Saturn wrong while convincing Joseph Bates of her prophetic gift. See Word to the Little Flock. Still in print too. The deeper you go the worse it gets, bad science fiction. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 379 Registered: 5-2007 |
EGW also saw "Tall, majestic people on Jupiter" in that same vision. Ummmm Jupiter is a ball of slushy gas with an atmospheric pressure that can crush lead. NOTHING can live there. BTW go on the EGW Research Project and you can find a 45 min. audio presentation by Bro. Dirk Anderson where he points out that EGW got her ideas from other sources. Wanna know where she got the "Tall People on Jupiter" idea from? ATHEIST philosopher Volatiare who wrote a book where there were people living on Saturn. This is what Bro. Anderson said in that audio presentation. It is interesting to note that EGW got this idea of tall people on Jupiter from an Atheist(Voltaire). And it is interesting to note that Adventists have the same belief about the soul that Atheists do and an equivalent hope of an afterlife. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 975 Registered: 8-2004  |
Hmm. Didn't she warn against reading Voltaire? Or perhaps that was only Thomas Paine. | ||
| Treasurehntr Registered user Username: Treasurehntr Post Number: 19 Registered: 7-2007 |
I think that was Thomas Paine and I think the warning was in "Early Writings". Don't quote me on that, i'm slowly losing my ability to quote Ellen White (thats a good thing). | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 406 Registered: 11-2005 |
Treasurehntr, You have a good memory!
http://www.ellenwhite.org/egw36.htm 162 Years, 8 Months, and 28 Days since October 22, 1844 Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3994 Registered: 3-2004  |
Math was never my strong suite, so that just made my head swirl. Thank God I am no longer in that place I was as an adventist. Diana | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 387 Registered: 5-2007 |
Gilbert, I did a mathematical proof of why the IJ is false on another thread and it is also on CARM. You may want to check it out. Regarding Thomas Paine, what was so bad about him? Didn't he write a pamphlet called "Common Sense" just before the American Revolution? What's so satanic about that. Unless EGW thought common sense was satanic? (Message edited by Reb on July 19, 2007) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1953 Registered: 10-2004  |
From the EGW quote above: "This is the masterpiece of Satan. All this teaching, purporting to be from apostles and saints and wicked men who have died, comes directly from his satanic majesty." More subtle worship of satan by EGW! How sick! I don't see where the Apostle Paul ever wrote stuff like that, calling satan "his satanic majesty"!
Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on July 19, 2007) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1954 Registered: 10-2004 |
I did a search of EGW's writings and she uses the phrase "satanic majesty" in 56 paragraphs. In some of those she capitalized "Satanic" and in one of those paragraphs she even capitalized "Majesty"! One of the quotes that I noticed is the following:
The Bible never goes into details of "how wonderful" it would be for satan if such and such an event happened that isn't going to happen! Nobody could have written that sentence that I highlighted unless they were trying to worship satan! If you want to see other people who have used the phrase "his satanic majesty" check out the following Google search: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22his+satanic+majesty%22 Ellen was nothing but satan-worshipper! Jeremy | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 54 Registered: 7-2007 |
Didn't the whole church start from that obscure prophecy in Daniel 8:14 "For two thousand and three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed." ?? William Miller took the year-for-a-day principle in Bible prophecy and decided that it must mean the "cleansing" of the earth by fire at the Lord's second coming. Then when the Lord didn't return when he thought, I suspect that several of his followers including Ellen Harmon (before her marriage to James White) perhaps didn't want to admit they were wrong, so they decided that the "sanctuary" must mean the heavenly one and that Jesus was to go into the Most Holy Place in 1844 to start the investigative judgment. (That completely contradicts Hebrews 6:19,20 and Hebrews 9:12,25 where it says that Jesus had already gone into the Most Holy Place - not to mention that it says (Hebrews 10:12) that He sat down at the right hand of God. Where would the Most Holy Place be, but where God is?!!!) Anyway, in my little reference Bible, in the text: "For two thousand and three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be clensed" there is a little number 1 beside the word days, referring me to the center column. There it says: "Lit. evenings-mornings." If I understand correctly, a day stands for a year in Bible prophecy, but when it says "evening and morning" it means literal days. (Like in the Genesis account of creation.) Dianne | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 118 Registered: 8-2005 |
In context "evenings and mornings" aren't even talking about days. (HCSB) Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the speaker, "How long will the events of this vision last--the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and of the host to be trampled?" (KJVA) Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? (LITV) Then I heard a certain holy one speaking, and another holy one said to that one who spoke, Until when is the vision, the regular sacrifice and the desolating transgression, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled? (NASB) Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to that particular one who was speaking, "How long will the vision about the regular sacrifice apply, while the transgression causes horror, so as to allow both the holy place and the host to be trampled?" (NET.) Then I heard a holy one speaking. Another holy one said to the one who was speaking, "To what period of time does the vision pertain — this vision concerning the daily sacrifice and the destructive act of rebellion and the giving over of both the sanctuary and army to be trampled?" (YLT) `And I hear a certain holy one speaking, and a certain holy one saith to the wonderful numberer who is speaking: Till when is the vision of the continual sacrifice , and of the transgression, an astonishment, to make both sanctuary and host a treading down? It was unfortunate for William Miller that the KJV incorrectly translated it as "days" (HCSB) He said to me, "For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be restored." (KJVA) And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (LITV) And he said to me, For two thousand, three hundred evenings and mornings, then the sanctuary will be put right. (NASB) He said to me, "For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the holy place will be properly restored." (NET.) He said to me, "To 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be put right again." (YLT) And he saith unto me, Till evening--morning two thousand and three hundred, then is the holy place declared right. Layperson interpretation of Daniel 8:14s answer to question posed in Daniel 8:13 - The holy place and the host will be trampled for 2300 evening-morning daily sacrifice cycles | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3998 Registered: 3-2004 |
I am not defending EGW nor am I defending Satan. I just think it is a little extreme to call EGW a satan worshiper. I say this because I do not want who ever reads these threads to think that I agree with that. I do think that EGW's head injury had a lot to do with her "visions" and the "angel" that accompanied her for all those years. I will say I am suspicious about him, but I do not know for sure. I do think that EGW is a false prophet. What she wrote did not come from God. I am also sure that Satan had a hand it it, as he does in all behaviour that is bad and against God. This is just my opinion. Diana | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 393 Registered: 5-2007 |
I would agree with you, Diana. I think her head injury was largely responsible for her "visions" and her "angel". I concur she was a false prophet and what she wrote did NOT come from God but I do not think she worshipped Satan or was demonic. Satan may have used EGWs illness to make trouble but I don't think EGW was evil, just very ill. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1955 Registered: 10-2004 |
I'm not the one who is being extreme here. Ellen is the one who is being "extreme" (extremely evil) by calling satan "his satanic majesty"--a term not used by Christians but by satanists: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22his+satanic+majesty%22 If you want proof, click the link! It's not my fault that Ellen was a satanist. I was not born in her lifetime. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on July 19, 2007) |
