| Author | Message | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2007 |
As an SDA, I was taught that man's soul was the breath of life from God; received at birth and lost at death. A view of a spirit which could separate from a living soul seemed to be related to spiritualism and the occult. From reading some previous threads, I see that many christians do assume that man has a spirit which is more than the breath of life; another aspect of man. In a small group at church we have been reading a book called "Listening for the soul". It describes contemplative prayer as imagining how another's soul is feeling; as resting in a place beyond thought and concept; as intuitive awareness; as wordlessly listening for God's voice. It suggests starting with right-brain activities as a means of freeing the intuitive response of the soul. It suggests walking in a beautiful place, paying attention to one's breathing pattern and possibly using simple repetitive phrases as in chanting. It also suggests using an icon to remind oneself to be mindful of God. Visualization as a form of wordless prayer is mentioned, and "repeating succint phrases until they take on a deep life of their own within us", and lastly, "poustinia days". Yowzers, most of this seems more like Eastern meditation to me, but the book says that it is also practiced within the Western mystical movements of Christianity. Will these things help my spirit to rest in God or does it seem more New Age to you? | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 794 Registered: 7-2004  |
As a Christian, one can believe in a spirit that continues beyond the body without believing in any of the stuff you described. IMO, it is definitely New Age, Eastern mysticism stuff. You won't find any such thing described in the Bible. Here is a link to one of the best articles I have found that explains the history of the contemplative movement and the dangers of it. This article has five parts to it. http://www.svchapel.org/Resources/Articles/read_articles.asp?id=106 Part 3 of this article particularly addresses contemplative prayer. (Message edited by Raven on July 19, 2007) | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 254 Registered: 1-2004  |
I wouldn't recommend getting into the mystical side of Christianity outside of the Church it comes from. If you're going to imitate the monastics of the early Christian church I recommend doing so from within that church. Learn about these things from those who still practice them in their original context... you could visit an Orthodox Christian monastery and ask the people there since they can tell you from experience. This way, you can find out what the results are before getting involved. Also, you can avoid the imitations or New Age mutations and get the original. Jeremiah | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1960 Registered: 10-2004  |
A comprehensive site regarding the contemplative movement that has been linked to before on this forum is: http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/ Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on July 19, 2007) | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2007 |
Thanks for all the information. I'm beginning to think this might not be the best small group for me now, but I just made a 1 year commitment to the group. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1082 Registered: 9-2006  |
I agree with you Raven 100% although looking at it from what was said. If I made an honest commitment to something that I thought was according to the Bible going In and later found out it was not I would break the commitment without hesitation because that commitment works both ways. I would feel that they had broken my trust and so leave without condemnation or regret. But that is just me. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6333 Registered: 12-2003  |
I agree with River. Keeping a commitment with a group that had broken my trust seems the honest thing to do. Once we leave Adventism when we discover they broke trust with us, we see these kinds of of breaches with truth more easily. We really have an obligation before God to act on the truth when He shows it to us. I agree with Raven; that class is teaching "stuff" way outside the Biblical model. We are never asked to perceive another's soul. We are asked to surrender and offer ourselves to Jesus. He unites us with others through His Spirit. We share with other Christ-followers through the Holy Spirit who unites us, not directly by seeking to "feel" or perceive another's soul directly. Our unity is IN CHRIST. Colleen | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 19 Registered: 7-2007 |
I have had a chance to look more closely at the links given and am surprised to see how widespread this has become. I am disappointed to leave the first small group I have joined in years, and know it will be difficult to find a church that has not been influenced by it. The small group is a care ministry and the trainer is a professor from a methodist seminary. The link in Jeremy's post implicates many other Christian colleges/ seminaries in the related Spiritual Formation movement including Trinity International of the Evangelical Free church. | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 20 Registered: 7-2007 |
Too late to edit my previous post; I wanted to add that I had no problem with the initial training we were given, which included a book on equipping the laity for pastoral care. After this initial training we were commissioned/ blessed by the pastors to participate in this ministry and signed our commitment to participate in the ministry and its ongoing training for 1 year or as long as we remain lay shepherds in this congregation. The group has apparently studied this second book before, but new members such as myself just started reading it. We only meet once a month, so I have not had a chance to relate my questions/ concerns with the group. The Lighthouse Trail Research link does have a list of colleges which do not promote contemplative living. These are primarily Baptist and Calvary Chapel. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1104 Registered: 9-2006 |
Well cloudy, It may be worth a little discomfort of leaving a group when one hungers for fellowship than to end up in years of wasted effort and possibly spiritual harm, seems like one time would be enough for me. I don't want you to take this as telling you what you should do or not do, but I can encourage you too finds groups who stick with the, as Colleen says "the Biblical model", just speaking for myself, anytime it fall's outside that "Biblical model" I don't care if the trainer is the duck o England. Fact of the matter is, I ain't impressed by the degrees in theo-logy or by ones education, I got a college degree, so what? My bag is do you teach the Bible out of the Bible and when you start teaching crossing your toes and chanting repetition as a substitute for honest prayer, meditation on Gods word and supplication to God I am out of there like a shot and I won't even wave as I leave neither so no use calling out for the time of day upon my leaving cause you ain't going to get it! I suppose you folk can tell I am not easily impressed by the books one has written or the collages one has attended but I might as well be up front with it. I am impressed with Jesus. I am deeply impressed with Gods word, it never gets dull. Now thats just my own honest opinion. And it may not be worth much. River | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2007 |
Good points, River. My concern about the colleges/ seminaries being involved with the Spiritual Formation movement is a practical one. I live close to 1 of these schools, and many of the local pastors and christian bible teachers are trained there. I was not aware of these movements before I got this book and read those links. I did not expect to find this sort of thing being promoted by the Evangelical Free church's university. It makes me aware that I will need to pay close attention to the bible class curriculum at the new school my son will attend this fall. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 980 Registered: 8-2004  |
 Cloudy wrote: "It makes me aware that I will need to pay close attention to the bible class curriculum at the new school my son will attend this fall." Ain't that the truth! One thing I've learned is that there is no place I can sit back and carelessly assume. I can trust God to lead each of us and teach each of us truth. I can rest in the knowledge that God has my children in His hands. But I cannot, because of that, relax vigilance and stop paying attention to what is being taught - whether that is at church or school. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 4018 Registered: 3-2004  |
Since being out of adventism, I am much more aware of what other churches teach. Right now I am writing emails to a charismatic pentacostal. I did a google search on them and what I read is that they are not Biblical. I have not told him that, but I did give Biblical references where we differ. I will just see what he has to say. Diana | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1106 Registered: 9-2006 |
There is just so much junk going on out there right now that its sickening, now this may seem to make me out like an old fashioned stick in the mud, there is also a lot of good stuff going on but seems to me the pickins er gettin slimmer. maybe I am old fashioned, but I ain't seen the Bible changin a whit in the last 30 years I can start off in Genesis and end in Revelations and it looks familiar. I may end up stayin home and givin an alter call and answer it myself,I may make a few minor course corrections but I don't look to make any major changes real soon unless God makesem. River | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 629 Registered: 4-2006  |
Found a quite good radio broadcast dealing with some of the New Age stuff and psychology creeping into the Church, you might find it interesting as well: http://www.thebereancall.org/radio/full_list In His joy Martin |
