| Author | Message | ||
| Laurie Registered user Username: Laurie Post Number: 31 Registered: 6-2007 |
This morning in church I was reading the Bible while I waited for the service to start. I just opened and started reading John 19. In verses 28-30 it describes the vinegar being offered to Jesus on the cross and verse 30 says "when he had received the drink". Right away I though "no, he refused the drink because it was fermented and he did not want his senses clouded". My next thought was "where did I get that thought!". Then I remembered clearly being taught through 10 years of SDA education that Jesus refused the drink offered to him. I heard that countless times throughout my life. It was presented to me as fact. I quickly turned to the other gospels to read the account there, and the first 3 state the drink was offered to Jesus. NOWHERE does it state he refused it, and John states he received it. As soon as I got home I found my desire of ages book (which I keep for just such an occasion) and turned to page 746. It says: To those who suffered death by the cross, it was permitted to give a stupefying potion, to deaden the sense of pain. This was offered to Jesus; but when he had tasted it, he refused it. He would receive nothing that could becloud his mind. His faith must keep fast hold upon God. This was his only strength. To becloud his senses would give satan an advantage. Ellen ( I can hardly stand to type her name) says he would not receive it... the Bible says he did receive it. There is absolutely nothing in any of the gospels to indicate the drink was refused. I showed this to my husband and he said "why does that surprise you? Everything she said is a lie." It doesn't surprise me, it just continues to anger me beyond words. My husband can not understand this as he was not raised SDA. His head is not full of the many many lies I was taught. He joined the SDA church at the age of 28. He has not heard all the lies I have. I feel so angry after reading this, because I feel like I, myself, don't even know how many lies have been fed to me. How do I know until I read something to contradict what I was taught? I may be thinking something that was a lie and not even know it. I can't stand that thought. I have stated on here before that I have never in my life accepted EGW as any kind of prophet (other than a false one), yet I continue to discover things I have been taught that came from her and I didn't even know it. I know I have the bible and have always had the bible at my disposal to read any time. I take full responsibility for the fact that it took me over 40 years to stumble across that LIE. It literaly makes me sick to realize there could be many many things that I don't even think about until something prompts my memory, that are false, evil, bold LIES. How will I know when I have corrected all of them? It's an overwhelming thought. And I can't help it... it makes me so angry. Sorry, I'm kinda venting here. I will continue to read and study to find more truth. I also have to work on not letting my anger and resentment toward the SDA church get in the way. I hope that maybe even one person lurking and reading this will realize they can not continue to believe lies. Laurie | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 60 Registered: 11-1999 |
I so completely understand your anger. I have had a truly difficult time with that this past week and I left "the church" 9 years ago!! I praise God that you were searching and you found Christ, and Christ alone, in spite of all the lies that were designed for the very purpose of preventing you to do so. When we seek, we will find!!! | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 91 Registered: 4-2007 |
I understand the anger and resentment. I felt betrayed by people I had trusted. It takes time to work through it all. I made the mistake of ignoring it and pushing it away instead of dealing with it then, so I'm still dealing with it 25 years out from leaving the SDA church. God Bless, MarysRoses | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 83 Registered: 4-2007 |
We may embarrass ourselves by repeating those stupid Ellenisms but we will never embarrass ourselves in proclaiming our assurance of salvation in Christ alone - we KNOW we didn't get THAT from Ellen!!! JONVIL (Message edited by jonvil on July 15, 2007) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1936 Registered: 10-2004  |
Laurie, Actually, in Matthew and Mark it says that Jesus was given a drink before He was crucified that He did refuse, and then He was given another drink after He was on the Cross which He received:
Luke and John only mention the second drink:
EGW does include both accounts in The Desire of Ages, but she still twists/changes/denies the Scripture:
First of all, according to Ellen the drink that Jesus refused was given to him when He was on the Cross--which contradicts the Gospels, which say that it was before He was on the Cross. Secondly, John says that the sour wine that was given to Jesus--and that He drank--when He was thirsty was the fulfillment of Psalm 69:21. EGW says that the fulfillment of Psalm 69:21 was when Jesus refused the drink! And don't even get me started on this part of EGW's quote: "He would receive nothing that could becloud His mind. His faith must keep fast hold upon God. This was His only strength. To becloud His senses would give Satan an advantage." What blasphemous statements! Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on July 15, 2007) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1937 Registered: 10-2004 |
I noticed that in that second EGW quote from The Desire of Ages, she doesn't exactly state that Jesus ever did receive any drink. And in her earlier book, The Spirit of Prophecy Volume Three, she totally contradicts the Bible:
But then a few pages later, she says:
So it is very confusing. Either she has two "I thirst" events, or she is just repeating the first one, in which case she would never be acknowledging that He ever actually received any drink. (And that may be the case in The Desire of Ages, too.) Also, look at how that second quote contradicts the second quote from The Desire of Ages. In this one, she says that the drink was not given in sympathy, but in the DA quote she says that it WAS given in "pity." Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on July 15, 2007) | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 514 Registered: 11-2004 |
Laurie said "I feel so angry after reading this, because I feel like I, myself, don't even know how many lies have been fed to me. How do I know until I read something to contradict what I was taught? I may be thinking something that was a lie and not even know it. I can't stand that thought. I have stated on here before that I have never in my life accepted EGW as any kind of prophet (other than a false one), yet I continue to discover things I have been taught that came from her and I didn't even know it." I've gone through the same thing. I left over 8 years ago and I will still occasionally come across something that didn't come from the Bible, but from Ellen White. I was never into her either. As time passes the discoveries have come with less and less frequency. And it is not uncommon for me to double-check with the Bible when I am thinking about an issue. I grew up listening to the Your Story Hour, etc tapes and nearly had those Bible stories memorized. I think a lot of Ellenisms were embedded into me that way. I have copies of the My Bible Friends Series and was astonished lately when I went to read the story to my kids (I change the words as necessary). The story of Zacheaus was totally screwed up. They had Zachaeus get baptized by John the Baptist. He was sorry for stealing money and he promised to give back what he took wrongfully all before he met Jesus. I had started reading the story and when I saw what was written I stopped and told my kids that the story was all messed up. It totally gave the picture of Jesus "rewarding" Zacheaus instead of the grace Jesus showed that day. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 381 Registered: 11-2005 |
Ellen had a tremendous vinegar addiction that almost killed her. I wonder how many of her writings were produced while she was under the influence? http://ad2ch.org/en/askellen/2006/09/07/my-confession/ See also http://ad2ch.org/en/askellen/ for more insight into her special "gifts". Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 157 Registered: 10-2005 |
makes you wonder if she wasnt snokered,I love the humor of this site though cant find any recent articles do they keep this site current? Dawn | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6298 Registered: 12-2003  |
Gilbert, I admit I love the humor of "Ask Ellen" also! I've thought for years about her "vinegar addiction". Vinegar? Does anyone know the stage grape juice passes through before it becomes vinegar? I've suspected for a long time that Ellen had an alcohol problem, but she couldn't quite admit that and called it a vinegar addiction. Without alchohol present, vinegar wouldn't cause such a dependency nor such sickness. Laurie, I so understand your anger. The wonderful thing is that God redeems the past that we learned as Adventists. He transforms those things as we spend time in His word and pray for Him to teach us truth. He is faithful! The anger is a normal and important part of the "deprogramming" and grief process. The anger actually gives us the energy to pursue change and truth. Sometimes the depression and denial of what we were in keeps us inert; the anger is God's way of stimulating us to make changes and to KNOW what is actually true about our past. Anger is data; it warns us of danger and evil. Once we face what's really true behind the anger, we can trust God to deal justly with the offender and to bring healing to our hearts. Sometimes anger is related to our own misperceptions. Even these God desires to change. At any rate, you can praise God for revealing the truth to you. He will use the truth you are learning to equip you for the work He has already prepared for you to do. Colleen | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 158 Registered: 10-2005 |
looks like she overcame this addiction in 1911? if thats the case she was hammered for years writing"prophecy" and seeing visions" shoot I've sen a few pink elephants back in the day myself | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 382 Registered: 11-2005 |
Laurie, I understand completely your anger. The way the Seventh-day Adventist Church continues to promote Ellen White's falsehoods makes me angry too. A good example is the totally false image that they give to her through the "Keeper of the Flame" video series. Another is the mythical 2000 visions that she (didn't) have. I wondered how the Clear Word Bible rendered this text. As usual the Catholics don't even come close to mangling the Bible as bad as the version the Adventist Sabbath School Quarterly promotes. Here it is:
Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3981 Registered: 3-2004  |
This is from the Clear Word book? I will not dignify it with the name Bible. They can add what ever they want and feel it is okay!!!! That is so sad. Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1940 Registered: 10-2004 |
Oh, my! How horrific Gilbert! They would rather believe a false prophet than God's Word, so they change God's Word to fit the false prophet. Wow. And they think they can get away with this without eternal consequences?! Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1941 Registered: 10-2004 |
It seems that Blanco (author of the "Clear Word") changed basically every verse of God's Word to make sure that it did not contradict Adventist teaching. This is way worse than the JW's translation or Joseph Smith's translation. The JW's "only" changed a few verses here and there (which is bad enough!)--they did not completely re-write the Scriptures like Blanco did! I don't understand how this "bible"--which is the worst one of any cult--is not enough for everyone to call the SDA church a cult! At least the JW's can still discover the truth even in their own translation--but the SDA "bible" corrupts basically the whole Bible! Jeremy | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 383 Registered: 11-2005 |
While the Seventh-day Adventist apologists will claim that CWB is not an officially sanctioned rewrite of the Bible, actions speak louder than words. I have a copy of the official "Adult Sabbath School Bible Study Guide" for July, August and September 2006. The title is "The Gospel, 1844, and Judgment". The inside of the front cover contains a full page add with a bold title that says, "Let Ellen G. White help you study!" Below the text states "Don't miss out! Start getting more from your daily Bible Study with E. G. White Notes today. Available at your Adventist Book Center". The obvious inference is that Adventists who study the Bible without Ellen White's help are handicapped. Following the last lesson in this same Sabbath School Quarterly is a full page ad promoting "The Clear Word. Clearly, the Best Choice". There is "The English Clear Word", "The Clear Word For Kids" and the "Clear Word Audio CD (NT)" read by "Lonnie Melashenko, well-known speaker of Voice of Prophecy". Obviously the Seventh-day Adventist Church promotes the interpretation used by the Clear Word Bible, otherwise they wouldn't be advertising it in the Sabbath School Quarterly! Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 345 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hmmmmmm. I wonder if I went to ABC, bought a Clear Word sat down with my wife with a Clear Word next to a King James Bible and compared the two if that would convince her that Adventists don't folllow the Bible, they follow EGW? Hmmmmmm just an idea. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 385 Registered: 11-2005 |
Reb -- There are loads of Clear Word Bibles cheap on Amazon.com used books. I got my used hardcover copy for $3.40 + shipping.
Personally, I think it is too easy for an Adventist to discount CWB since it is not THE official Bible of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. I found the best thing is to focus on the inconsistencies of Ellen White, and leave the rest to the Holy Spirit. BTW, if a person is going to go straight KJV they will have to include the apocrypha. The original KJV included that. It wasn't until later versions of KJV that it was dropped. It is important to keep in mind that Ellen White said
Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 351 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks, Gilbert. Hmmmmm that's interesting that EGW gives that much weight to the Apocyrpha, again supporting my idea that the SDA church has one finger pointing back at it when it accuses the RCC of stuff. It's like the pot calling the kettle black. It's ironic though, that EGW didn't understand the 2 books of the Aprocypha that even Protestants consider to have historical accuracy - 1st and 2nd Maccabees. Perhaps if EGW had properly understood 1st and 2nd Maccabees she would see that the "2300 days" prophecy in Daniel was grossly misinterpreted by Adventists. 1st and 2nd Maccabees describe how the CORRECT interpretation of this prophecy was fulfilled, the overthrow of Antiochus Epiphanes and the restoration of the Sanctuary, cleansing it from the "filth" the Selucid Greeks had polluted it with. Just something to think about. (Message edited by Reb on July 16, 2007) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1942 Registered: 10-2004 |
The SDAs can squawk all they want about the "Clear Word" not being "official"--it's simply not true. It was written by an SDA Church-owned university's theology professor, published by the SDA Church-owned Review & Herald Publishing Association, advertised in official SDA publications, and sold by the SDA Church-owned Adventist Book Centers! Jeremy | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1059 Registered: 9-2006  |
Well ya gotta admit they are experts at waffling. They got ruts worn around the mulberry bush so deep I haven't seen their heads in six months. They make a politician look like a kinder gardener. River (Message edited by river on July 16, 2007) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6308 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, the Clear Word is an astonishing perversion. And I had no idea that Ellen said the wise in the last days should understand the Apocrypha! I was totally taught as a kid that the Apocrypha was "Catholic" and completely unreliable. I did not learn until well into adulthood that the Macabees were actually signficant historical documents. Such twisting and subtle deceptions we were taught--all woven into a veil of falsehood that filtered out any ray of light. Praise God that His Light can penetrate the darkness even when we don't know we need to see! Yes, Jeremy--there are serious consequences for those who lead people away from the light of Jesus. Colleen | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 49 Registered: 1-2007 |
I have found this blog very interesting. I left the SDA church when I was 18 and went to Bible School after I accepted Christ because I knew that I had a lot of false doctrine in me because of Adventism and needed to figure out what was scripture and what was Ellen. Over the past 37 years I have been in many Bible studies and have learned so much. And then once again a subject comes up like the one on this blog and I realize that I think that Jesus did not take the drink. Obviously believing that he did or did not take the drink is not foundational to my salvation but it is frustrating to realize that it never ends when it comes to this religion having an effect on my life. I love the forum because it brings to light some of these issues that otherwise I would not realize. Thanks to everyone who contributes. Blessed | ||
| Godssonjp Registered user Username: Godssonjp Post Number: 47 Registered: 1-2007 |
I second that. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2007 |
Here's more hilarious "ask Ellen" quotes from her book "Counsels on Diet & Foods." (I have here the paper back edition with the colorful pictures of fruits and vegetables on the cover.) "And all should bear a clear testimony against tea and coffee, never using them. They are narcotics, injurious alike to the brain and to the other organs of the body..." (pg. 430) "The more largely flesh composes the diet of teachers and pupils, the less susceptible will be the mind to comprehend spiritual things. The animal propensities are strengthened..." (pg. 395) "Cheese should never be introduced into the stomach." (pg. 368) "Sugar is not good for the stomach. It causes fermentation and this clouds the brain and brings peevishness into the disposition." (pg.327) "Soda causes inflammation to the stomach..." (pg. 316) "...drug medication should be discarded..." (pg. 303) "It is not well to eat fruit and vegetables at the same meal." (pg. 112) "Butter and meat stimulate." (pg. 48) "Spices at first irritate the tender coating of the stomach, but finally destroy the natural sensitiveness of this delicate membrane. The blood becomes fevered, the animal propensities are aroused, while the moral and intellectual powers are weakened..." (pg.341) Dianne  | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 96 Registered: 4-2007 |
Considering the patent medicines of the time, she might have had a point about the medications. But then, a broken clock is right twice a day, lol ! MarysRoses | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6313 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ohmygoodness--I've seen the results of those statements. Richard grew up with the notion that even taking aspirin or advil for pain was actually bad for one. He still has a knee jerk reaction against taking pain meds unless he's hurtin' so bad he can't function. His head understands reality, but he has to consciously think about the fact that ongoing pain is harmful to him in order to take the meds sometimes. Ironic, isn't it, that with all these statements including the medication prohibition, LLU remains the flagship institution of the Adventist church, producing fully trained physicians, dentists, nurses, physicians' assistants, even phramacists from its relatively new School of Pharmacy. Colleen | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 164 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well, I guess I'm with Ellen on one thing: I like my wine. And doggone it, I like my coffee too, and my baby back ribs. Why, I likes my ribs so much, that when I gets done eatin em, my plate looks like Jurrasic Park! (burp) steve | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 159 Registered: 10-2005 |
I'll drink to that stevendi |
