| Author | Message | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 34 Registered: 7-2007 |
Gonna go because I truly do not want to argue. I hope I don't get upset today hearing SDA theology. Happy Sabbath. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3940 Registered: 3-2004  |
Let us know what it was like and I pray you do not get to upset over what you hear. God will be with you through this. Diana | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 258 Registered: 7-2005  |
Luz, For the past three weeks, I've been attending the SDA church again after almost 2 years out of Adventism. My husband is still a very faithful SDA and I have missed being with him at church. I haven't missed the SDA doctrine at all. I felt it was the Lord telling me to go back. I'm still actively attending my mainstream Protestant church on Sundays and Wednesdays and have no intention of stopping that. It's my lifeline to reality. I also listen to Christian radio a lot (Bott Radio Network) and get a lot of good doctrine there. Much of what I'm hearing at the SDA church sounds like what I hear at the mainstream Protestant church. However, there is always that bit of distinctive SDA doctrine that is sprinkled into each lesson study, sermon, or casual conversation. It doesn't bother me to hear it nearly as much now, especially since I know I'm not in any way trying to *BE* an Adventist. I think of myself now as an ambassador from mainstream Protestant Christianity. An ambassador does not hold citizenship in the country where he/she ministers. I think of myself now as an observer, instead of a member. I can respectfully observe the phenomena of Adventism, instead of trying to fit myself into the mold. I wait for the Lord to open up opportunites for me to share my faith in Christ, speak words of encouragement, pray for the needs presented, etc. No matter where we find ourselves, there is always a mission field. Even in my mainstream Protestant church, there are adults in their sixties who do not have assurance of salvation. They may have come from a background of Roman Catholicism or some other denomination whose teachings eclipse the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. God kept me away from Adventism long enough for me to get myself firmly grounded in good Bible doctrine, before sending me back into Adventism. I wasn't raised in Adventism, as many on this forum were. I don't recommend going back into Adventism, even as a visitor, unless you're solidly grounded in a good Bible-teaching church. Honestwitness | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2007 |
Well, today when I went to service it was as dry as it can be. They started talking about church budgets and how much money they need for the air conditioning and for "evangelism" and so on. Then the guy started talking about tithing and how we're required to do so, so that ministers can live off of it and this is done all over the world. I'm sure that's not what tithing is all about. Anyways the sermon was as dry as can be. I came out of there empty. I left the service before it finished. It was about how the church is not just a building and a House of God is different than a church and how we need to build churches. That in order to worship God you have to sacrifice out of your heart. Everyone is required to do a work in the house of God. Nothing about Christ centered message only about what we should do and perfect ourselves. I was miserable in there. I do not want to go back. I just want to stick to my nondenominational calvary bible church. Of course I visited an old friend's house and we were watching 3ABN and listened to Doug Bachelor's amazing facts. He did speak about the gospel of Jesus and then the following show was about ellen g white, of course I felt like barfing. lol. I picked up my sister from the train station and that was my sabbath. (Message edited by luzisbornagain on July 07, 2007) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3951 Registered: 3-2004 |
Luz and Honestwitness, Thank God you know the gospel and know the difference. Diana | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 359 Registered: 11-2005 |
There is a fascinating trend taking place within Adventism called "pluralism". I have noticed more and more articles of this nature in the Adventist Review. One recent one, for example, proposed that it is just fine to worship on Sunday as long as you also observe the Seventh-day Sabbath. "Pluralism" allows for members to choose either the official Traditional Adventist viewpoint that is promoted as the 28 Fundamental Beliefs, or to follow what others within Adventism refer to as Evangelical Adventism. The interesting thing about this approach is that it allows Adventist pastors to point at the Evangelical side and say, "You can do that, and still be an Adventist!" Pluralism allows participants to believe almost anything as long as they do not openly attack the Seventh-day Adventist organizational structure or leadership. You can now, for example believe that Ellen White is inspired (Traditional), or you can believe that her writings demonstrate a progressive understanding of God and are not inspired. In other words pick what you want, and ignore the rest. Use them in a devotional way. (Evangelical). In this way Adventism speaks out both sides of its mouth and people hear what they are looking for. It's the old approach of pursuing multiple strategies in parallel and there will be something for everyone. The bottom line is to preserve both the Seventh-day Adventist corporation and the White Estate, and keep the money flowing into the "Lord's Storehouse". In no way, shape, or form, is the GC going to undermine the White Estate. They depend on each other for their survival. I predict that in the long run this strategy will fracture the Seventh-day Adventist denomination just as it has Lutheranism, and a number of other denominations. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6248 Registered: 12-2003  |
Gilbert, that is so clear and incisive. You're absolutely right about the growing pluralism within Adventism. It's deceptive, and it keeps the Adventists who are becoming cognitively dissonant feeling as if things are "better" and they don't have to deal with the implications of Adventism. Yet they are still bound in deep ways they can't identify. Colleen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 361 Registered: 11-2005 |
And Adventism teaches that she (as they like to refer to Roman Catholicism) alone is their ark of safety. As they sing, "All other ground is sinking sand." This puts the emphasis, not on what one believes, but what organization they are associated with. It's all about being a supporting member of the right organization. A shocking example of this is recorded in the June 1976 issue of Ministry Magazine, the official publication for Seventh-day Adventist ministers. The title of the article, beginning on page 7, is “What It Means to Be Part of — The Highest Authority That God Has Upon Earth”. At a General Conference worship, Jan. 9, 1976, General Conference President Robert H. Pierson said:
By way of comparison, notice what the famous evangelist, Billy Sunday did. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Sunday
When is the last time you heard of Seventh-day Adventism getting excited when she helped people accept Christ as their personal savior, and then encouraging them to attend the church of their choice. When is the last time that she published positive reports, showing genuine enthusiasm for the evangelistic efforts of, say, Billy Graham? Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yeah it's more about joining a club than actually bringing people to Christ. They emphasize adventism more than they do Christ. | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2007 |
well one thing I forgot to mention was that when I went to my friend's house, the pastor from church came and his wife told me that she put my name for the youth sabbath school and I told her it's not like I'm gonna go, but thanks for thinking of me and she told me you are gonna go. Why is it that adventist folks all my life have forced me to go to church. She assumed I wasn't attending any church. I told her I am attending church, but of course she assumed that I was attending an SDA one. but oh well. It's that if you're not adventist mentality, then you;'re lost kind of thing. (Message edited by luzisbornagain on July 08, 2007) | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 148 Registered: 10-2005 |
I was watching 3ABN the other night and a new SDA was on telling his story to Dan Shelton(I have a hard time even looking at that man,not very christian of me but boy he bugs me). And he was telling Dan about the drugs,drinking and smoking and how he prayed to God to save him,Danny said to him something like did you feel that with all the sin in your life you deserved to ask God that? the guy seems like a sincere person and he has web site http://outofbabylon.org so I emailed him told him it was no acciedent that I seen the show since I really dont watch it,and felt compelled to share with him the dangerous doctrine. Havent heard from him yet. Jsut recieved his email.Dawn. Dear Dawn. Thank you for your reply. I understand your concerns and experience in the SDA church. Fortunately our experience is much different than yours. We focus 90% on Jesus and the rest on how to be obedient out of love for Him and other things. Absolutely no offense intended but it seems the only ones that have a problem with EGW are the ones ( at least in our small mountain church) that take her soooo serious to begin with. As I dont really focus on what others do, it's hard enough to keep my own nose clean. I have preached many times over this past year and lead others to the cross of Jesus not Ellen. I don't quote her much either and much prefer to read the Bible. I do believe that she had a keen insight to certain matters and leave it at that. I also believe that NO ONE CHURCH has all the answers about doctrine. It is unfortunate that there is only 1 truth for each biblical topic and not many, as there are denominations or theories. I'll tell you a story! As we left 3abn in Illinois we went through a small town, Frankfort IL. I counted 16 churches in a 2 mile strip. These only were on the main road, not counting those on side streets. As we approached the end of town a only saw 1 morgue... The lesson? There are 16 ways to interpret religion and its hang ups- but in the end we all go to the same place regardless of what we thought ,or, what we really felt was true. You can't prove your beliefs any more than I can prove mine but...I do know that God reached down and changed the very fabric of my life and exsistance in accordance to His will, as He promised in His word. He's been faithful through major attacks by the devil this year, starting with a attacks from a close friend and employee leading to $40,000 extortion letter, IRS audit, Contractors license dispute, Workers Comp audit, Fraudulent business charges all from him and sooo much more-in an attempt to destroy me. Through this, and more, God has been faithfull and I will stand for Him regardles of what people say or do. I believe that we are all in different spots in our walk with Christ and He certainly winks at our ignorance. I dont believe all matters in our church either, but I do test the spirits and have found that some topics are better left on the shelf. I'm sure its the same where you are too? You were absolutely correct Dawn, It is so much more about Jesus as the Sabbath won't save anyone. That doesn't make it any less important as the Bible says over 140 times " to them that follow my commandments shall receive the right to eat from the tree of life". Unfortunately, no matter what we do... someone will see it as obsessive, even when it's in direct accordance with Gods will. So lets not( humanity, not you) bog down on details, rather, lets share the truth we've found in God-like you did in your letter to me which is the correct thing to do. But also continue to leave some extra room for each other in this spiritual realm of growth. May God lead us all into the real truth of Him and nothing else. Sounds like this is your desire too! Thanks for your concern and love for us. We are all in this war together. Lets keep looking to the King! Your friend, though in a different place, but that's ok. May we meet in heaven. All my most heartfelt wishes and prayers for you! Robert Edwards | ||
| Luzisbornagain Registered user Username: Luzisbornagain Post Number: 44 Registered: 7-2007 |
well, I went to the calvary bible church today and may I add there is a big difference between both churhes. Today's message was Christ centered and how He is more than enough for us and how we should step back and let Him rule in our lives because we can't do everything. Now that my friends is a big difference from a focus on us and tithing and works compared to the grace of Jesus Christ in His spirit. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3957 Registered: 3-2004 |
A BIG AMEN, AMEN, AMEN. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6254 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dawn, what an interesting email you got from Mr. Edwards. And how bold and courageous of you to have emailed him in the first place! Obviously, Mr. Edwards is giving God the credit for his life being changed, but he is caught in a deception that will suck the joy away (if it hasn't already started to do so). Judging from what he said in his email, my guess is that he's already juggling his cognitive dissonance and experiencing some deep anxiety that he cannot resolve. Since it sounds as if he has some monetary means, he is likely being "courted" by the likes of Danny Shelton and is perhaps contributing nicely to 3ABN and/or other Adventist organizations. Just judging from my past experience, I'm guessing this man is trying to balance his loyalty between God and Adventism, since he can't quite see his way clear to separate the two. I'm certain, that God allowed this incident to come into your life so you will pray for Mr. Edwards. His internal "split" is clear to us but not to him. He is in a spiritual battle and doesn't recognize it's true nature. Praise God for giving us the opportunity to intercede for people struggling with truth--even people we don't know! Colleen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 295 Registered: 5-2007 |
Well my wife went to SDA church without me while I went to SDB church last Sabbath. There were no problems with this and afterwards we went to lunch and had a wonderful afternoon. I did go to fellowship with some of my Adventist friends after lunch and "came out of the closet" to a few more that I trust about my switch to being a Seventh Day Baptist. And, wow! they understood why. These are my closest and most trusted friends at the Adventist church and they know what I've been dealing with the past 18 months and especially since that horrible 1844 Ellen White Indoctrination Hour(Sabbath School) Quarterly where my journey out of Adventism accelerated. They were like so cool about it, and I just told them that the Lord is leading me to be a Seventh Day Baptist rather than an SDA and they got it! Praise God! There are others though that want to do a "visitation" and find out what's going on, and these are the real EGW fanatics that I haven't "come out of the closet" yet to because unlike my close freinds that I trust, they might "freak out". Well then the next day, after the gym I got my wife some beautiful flowers and I told her because I love her and thanks for understanding. She then said can't I just some back into Adventism and ignore the stuff I don't agree with like she does. And I lovingly said no, when I go to SDB church I really worship God instead of wasting my time like at SDA church. I've found a closer relationship with Jesus and I'm not giving it up. She didn't say anything further, we even went on an all day date and had a wonderful time. Am I really getting a breakthrough here? I am firmly committed to standing my ground lovingly in this matter. The Lord is leading me and I must follow Him. For the reasons Luz mentioned above, I can no longer stand Adventist church, It is so dry and spriritually dead while I find the SDB church to be spiritually alive and I'm just not gonna give that up! | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 385 Registered: 5-2004 |
I just typed a whole page and then managed to lose it. So here's a cryptic synopsys. I reacted to this statement in Mr.Edwards letter:
This topic of truth and provability to christianity is addressed in a show I listen to regularly. Here's the links, and though the whole "A Time for Truth" series this year is fabulous, I'm referring specifically to The Person of Christ 5/13/2007 - Sunday and The Quest for Relevance 5/6/2007 - Sunday and Preaching Christ 6/17/2007 - Sunday Basically, our culture sets us up to be wired to respect individual experiences which only makes things subjective. The apostles rather, never appealed to the subjective in preaching the gospel and truth, rather to historical fact. If Christianity is based on provable fact, Christian doctrines can also be based on the provable fact of the Bible. This is where SDA's go wrong especially, because everything is so wishy washy. Believe what you want, I'll interpret that this way... etc. There's not real basis for truth except "being Adventist" because Adventism denied biblical truth. Anyway, my 2 cents. | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 386 Registered: 5-2004 |
oops forgot the link: http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/The_White_Horse_Inn/archives.asp | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 149 Registered: 10-2005 |
You know Collen I never thought the reason he was on 3ABN was for monetary gain but your right,sometimes at work we play a dollor pool for the mega millsions ticket my boss a SDA said probably the church wouldnt like him playing but if he won he'd be first in line at the potlucks! You know what I thought was sad you all is that he said he focuses on Jesus 90%, and the other % on obedience.I wrote him back and said that our focus should be 100% and everything else comes natural. and I shared the links to this page and others and told him I didnt expect him to see what I said to hold of any importance but to tuck it away and hold it for future reference ,so pray for him and his family,Dawn thanks for the link there too esther | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 150 Registered: 10-2005 |
Praise God Reb,it is liberating when we can share with our SDA friends about our walk with Christ. My daughter still attends the SDa church occasioanly and when I ask her how it went she always says same old dry sermon(must be universal) how they talked abut church budget and sabbath and then she says blah,blah,blah. My husband use to say some of the pastors just like to hear themselves talk when thier up there.I dont know why she tortures herself. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 301 Registered: 5-2007 |
I just wish my wife would stop torturing herself. She admits she agrees with me that there are things wrong with Adventist doctrine but her way of dealing with it is to ignore the errors. I just can't do that. |
