| Author | Message | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 268 Registered: 5-2007 |
Got a nice, but strange e-mail from a friend from the Adventist church. There was stuff mentioned about what "SDAs believe about Jesus" "God's character can be reproduced in us." The beginning has in bold JESUS NEVER CHANGES. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. I think the "cat is out of the bag" as far as my being a Seventh Day Baptist now. That lady that overheard my conversation last Sabbath with a friend that I trust at the SDA Church(I have only "come out" as a SDB to my son, my wife and a few TRUSTED freinds")might have blabbed it to everyone? Oh well, it HAD to come out sooner or later, this is probably for the best. No harm, no foul. I can't think of any other reason for the wording in this e-mail. It was very nice and I responded in a nice manner as well, but I can read between the lines. Better brace myself! (Message edited by Reb on July 05, 2007) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3928 Registered: 3-2004  |
Reb, I will say what I say all the time: pray every time you write anything to any SDA. I am sure I am preaching to the choir, but as a Mom I have to say it. Diana | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 270 Registered: 5-2007 |
You are so right, Diana. My reponse was very short just simply thanks and God Bless. I may be reading more into this than what is there and after rereading it if I ignore the words "SDAs believe" and "God's character can be reproduced in us(no it can't we are NOT and NEVER will be Him) it was actually rather inspirational. The thing that struck me was the "SDAs believe thing" it almost seemed like it was addressed to someone who isn't SDA that's why I think the "cat may be out of the bag" by now. Again maybe that's for the best if it is. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6213 Registered: 12-2003  |
One of the oddities I've encountered since leaving is that Adventists relate me as if I have no knowledge of Adventism or what it teaches and espouses. They feel compelled to explain to me what Adventism really teaches and really believes, and they talk or write to me as if I'm a complete outsider with no knoweldge from the inside. Sometimes I have the odd feeling that I am seen as stupid or senile or somehow disconnected from reality. After all, if I actually left because of theological reasons (as opposed to being hurt or mistreated or angry), I must really have no true knowledge of Adventism. One of the most common lines I get is: "I am so sorry that you did not find Jesus in Adventism. That is NOT the Adventism I know. I always knew that salvation is by faith through Jesus Christ." There's really nowhere to go after a statement like that. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 995 Registered: 9-2006  |
They talk to you like you know nothing about Adventism because your light has went out Colleen, next time you go to the store get two or three extra bulbs. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3935 Registered: 3-2004 |
River, LOL, LOL. Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1906 Registered: 10-2004  |
You're too funny, River!  Jeremy | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 224 Registered: 1-2006  |
Reb A lot of SDA evengelistic sermons begin with the premise that God is eternal and never changes, that the 10 commandment law is a representation of His unchanging character, and thus, the law is eternal and never changes. This logic would seem right to those who don't know the scriptures. Is this where this "Jesus never changes" e-mail was headed? Hebrews 7: the law is necessarily changed (v12) and set aside (v18). Hebrews 8 goes on to say that the old covenant was faulty, that a new one was needed (v7) and that it is obsolete (v13)--no longer valid nor effective. My explanation is lousy, but what I'm saying is that this foundational premise of Adventist evangelism can quickly lead to the wrong conclusion about what is in reality weak and useless (v18). The logic is right, but one of the facts is actually wrong. The law changed. Change was necessary. Heb 7: 12 says so. Also, in the Sermon on the mount, etc, Jesus' often said "you have heard it said. . . but I say unto you . . ." Heb 6:18 mentions what is unchangeable: His purpose, and His oath. Bob | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 225 Registered: 1-2006 |
Reb I'd also like to share the NASB notes for Phil 1:6, since your e-mail mentioned God's character being reproduced in us. "Paul is confident, not only of what God has done "for" the readers in forgiving their sins, but also of what he has done "in" them (v11 mentions being "filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God." The notes say that at His return, our salvation will be brought to completion. It's God's work. He'll perfect it (finish it) so that when Jesus comes it will be completed. Bob | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6221 Registered: 12-2003 |
River, you are too funny!! I guess I'll have to get a flourescent bulb next time instead of a mere incandescent. I hear they last a whole lot longer... Dim bulb, Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 998 Registered: 9-2006 |
The sad truth is that as long as one is willing to go along with Adventist doctrine then your light shines according to them. They forget one thing and that is Jesus is our light and his light will always shine brightly in spite of Aventist doctrine. We no longer depend on ourselves or the world for our light and his light will shine through to that perfect day. Like Bob said "its God's work" and not our own and so we give him the glory and do not glory in ourselves but in the cross of Christ the source of light so their claims of light going out are invalid. I am continuously concerned with my own faults and failure on the one hand yet on the other hand I know that within myself I can do nothing so I must continue to look to him from day to day for mercy and grace. He is ever before and as Ramone said somewhere in one of his post "We must have more". So we continually return to that river of life, that deep well to draw from it and to drink from it day by day. River | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 160 Registered: 10-2006 |
Reb, Now that your "cat is out", prepare yourself for a few comments and questions asked with feigned incredulity. But then, prepare to be totally written off, considered as a threat, a deserter of Christ and the Church. Don't expect Adventists to call you up and love you out of the church, it ain't gonna happen. You are now the enemy, lost, evil, a threat to their security. If you think you had any friends there, start counting the calls you get. Then thank God for giving you this truthful information and do not be concerned what your former "friends" think of your journey. They do not care. Just letting you know, Steve | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 647 Registered: 6-2006  |
Bob, isn't it funny? If the law never changes, then I ask again, why aren't we following ALL of the laws? Why aren't we properly following the Sabbath and not leaving our homes? Why aren't we sacrificing animals? Why aren't our women leaving our tents and the gates of the city when we are "unclean"? If we're going to insist on the law being eternal then that means ALL of it! WOW. Thank you Jesus that you're my savior and NOT the law!  Leigh Anne | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 279 Registered: 5-2007 |
The irony of this whole thing is I didn't even give up the Sabbath. Funny how when they hold such importance to the Sabbath they would consider a Sabbatarian church like the SDB part of "Babylon". Could that be because the SDBs do not judge their brothers and sisters in Christ who worship on Sunday, do not consider the Sabbath a "final test", have not made the Sabbath an "idol" replacing Christ like the SDAs do? | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 649 Registered: 6-2006 |
Reb, I think it's the EGW factor. The SDAs are the only ones who have her, and seriously, she holds a much higher place to them than they're willing to admit. How many times have you seen on CARM some sincere SDA say "If you don't listen to her, you're not listening to God", (or Jesus or the Holy Spirit)? Sometimes I just want to accuse them of considering EGW their God. Since you don't regard her as God's word, then you're OUT! Praise God that Jesus doesn't consider you out. Leigh Anne (Message edited by grace_alone on July 06, 2007) | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 284 Registered: 5-2007 |
Ummmm she's more like their Pope, Leigh Anne. How is SDAism any different than Catholicism was in the Middle Ages except that SDAs don't burn heretics at the stake? In the Middle Ages it was think what the Pope tells you to think. With SDAs it's think what EGW tells you to think. | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 286 Registered: 4-2005  |
It seems a logical question to ask: With all these "bright lights" leaving the church, how are those remaining able to see in all the darkness left by their absence? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1004 Registered: 9-2006 |
Whatsamatter Jess, your light go out too? All theses lights they say are going out, Yeppers, they are marching right out the door! River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6228 Registered: 12-2003 |
I can always count on y'all for a good laugh! Thanks again, my friends! [There's really nothing like 'insider humor' when we all know the hidden details, is there?!] Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1005 Registered: 9-2006 |
You can count on us Colleen, that light Bulb on in Proclamation and the fellows letter forever imprinted it on my mind, I went around grinning for the better part of a day and every time I think about it a smile comes on my face. Laughter truly is sometimes at least the best medicine. Thanks for cheering me up today, I truly did need it today, but that letter and article in proclamation put a smile on my face today. God Bless dear Sister in Christ Jesus. I would explain what's going on right now but it would only make it worse to write about it. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6232 Registered: 12-2003 |
Praying for you, River. Colleen | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 128 Registered: 8-2005 |
I must admit I weary of the line 'You never really understood Adventism' (or something like it). I spent 30+ years there. To say I did not 'understand' is madness. I can tell you this, too. My phone did not ring of the hook when I left, that is for sure. The first call I got was a week after we left from the head deaconess for about 3 hours (she needs to leave, too, she just is afraid to). After that, I could count the calls on one hand that I have had in the past year - the pastor included. I called an SDA friend and expressed my sadness at the apparent lack of concern by the membership (I had been the head elder for several years, SS teacher, board chairman, etc) and I was just GONE to them). This friend shared his thoughts about the deal and he thinks it is simple fear. Fear that I have too much influence, fear that they cannot 'defend' adequately the SDA beliefs, fear that I will cause doubt and confusion. He may be right. When I was studying my way out, I sent him a list of questions and points based on Hebrews that I thought refuted the SDA belief in the sanctuary and he has yet to respond to that email except to say 'I would like to dialogue about it. I haven't forgotten!'. That was about a year ago now and still nothing. SDAs have a ready 'excuse' for letting you go. The 'bright lights will go out', 'once you reject EGW, you reject the Sabbath, then the Bible', 'the most dangerous people to us are those who once believe the message', etc. I bet that most of the members at the SDA church we used to attend think that we left over bitterness or anger (I would not doubt that some of the current leadership there feeds that idea becaause NOBODY leaves over doctrine, I mean Adventism is absolutely Biblical and logical, right?), but that is not at all the case. For the few that call and ask, they are surprised that it is doctrine. But as we talk, you find out that they all (excpet for the TRUE believer) have questions and things they know the church teaches that they cannot reconcile with Scripture. Some stay to try and 'change' the church, but most stay because their parents were SDAs or because, in spite of the things that don't make sense, they are comfortable in the culture. Sad. That is how I feel about a lot of it. Just sad. For most SDAs, if you don't 'believe' they don't even know how to be friends. Sorry to ramble. I miss some things like preaching and teaching and now I have no outlet. Every opportunity I have had (3 so far) to speak at an SDA gathering has been cancelled at the last minute. Maybe God is telling me that I really have to move on and just let that whole part of my life really go. I am not bitter, just displaced in some respects (if you know what I mean). ISO | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 1011 Registered: 9-2006 |
I think God allows what is best for us, he knows not only where we have been and where we are going to be. I believe he gives us purpose but it has been my experience that he first gives us training for that purpose. He knew where Moses was down on the backside of the desert herding sheep, he knew when he would be on that mountain. He knows where we need to be and it just may be that it is not good for you at this time to be involved with SDA's. IMHO River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6243 Registered: 12-2003 |
ISO--your experience and reactions so mirror my own. You know, River is right; after we leave, God really does take us out of circulation with Adventists for a while--at least for many of us. We have to be re-trained, and we have to allow His Spirit to completely fill and heal all those places where the spirit of Adventism had a foothold in our hearts. He is faithful. You are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for you to do. (Ephe 2:10) Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3949 Registered: 3-2004 |
Jess, You had me LOL. When my name was removed from the church books, without my knowledge, no one called me, not even my so called friends at the church. I found out when I saw one of them at the local market. Thank you God, I did not have to go through all the hassle of having my name removed. Diana |
