| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 299 Registered: 11-2005 |
From today's Deseret News (the LDS newspaper for Salt Lake City) -- Seventh-day Adventists: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,680193572,00.html Adventist camp meeting focuses on faith. In addition to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Assemblies of God, the Seventh-day Adventist Church is among the world's fastest-growing. And the leader of its North American congregation believes the reason is simple: People are seeking Jesus. Don Schneider "My sense is there is no happiness apart from Jesus," Elder Don Schneider told the Deseret Morning News on Saturday after speaking to church members at a camp meeting in Hobble Creek Canyon. In Schneider's own relationship with Jesus, he speaks to him frequently and offers each day to him in thanksgiving. "There is nothing you can do to separate yourself from him," he said. "He will forgive you no matter what." Jehovah Witnesses: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,680193164,00.html Jehovah's Witnesses plan convention. Multilingual, tri-state focus will be on Christ. "Follow the Christ!" is the theme of next weekend's annual Jehovah's Witness District Convention for Utah and portions of two surrounding states at Ogden's Dee Events Center. Mormons: http://www.desnews.com/cn/view/1,1721,460005748,00.html "Of all the things to which the Holy Ghost testifies, and which you may have just felt, none is more precious to us than that Jesus is the Christ, the living Son of God. And nothing is so likely to make us feel light, hope, and joy. Then it is not surprising that when we feel the influence of the Holy Ghost, we also can feel that our natures are being changed because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. We feel an increased desire to keep His commandments, to do good, and to deal justly." | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 615 Registered: 4-2006  |
Interesting. Thanks for the update Jorgfe. In His joy, Martin | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 926 Registered: 9-2006  |
Quote: "There is nothing you can do to separate yourself from him," he said. "He will forgive you no matter what." While this is a broad statement and in my opinion an un thought out statement to be making to the general public, I am curious as to what others think about this statement. It quickly brings to mind Colleen’s article in the last Proclamation! Issue. My take on it is that first of all one has to be connected in order not to be separated, how one can come to be connected through heresy and deception is beyond me. The second part of his statement . "He will forgive you no matter what." What my Bible tells me is this, Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. What say you? River | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 300 Registered: 11-2005 |
The thing I find fascinating (for lack of a better word) is how all of these cult religions have quickly learned that by using the right "buzz words" they can all appear to be Christian. In other words, the doctrines have not really changed. Just the vocabulary. I attend a Baptist church here in Salt Lake City where the indigenous religion is Mormon. The pastor recently pointed out that 30 years ago the Mormons would have nothing to do with Christ's resurrection. Now they frequently refer to it. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 301 Registered: 11-2005 |
As I look at so many of the discussions between Adventists and Former Adventists (example - CARM), it is apparent that both sides are "talking past" the other, and it goes downhill from there. In my opinion the point that has to first be agreed upon is that there is such a thing as a "half-truth", and that it is even more dangerous than a position that is blatantly false. Certain aspects of a "half-truth" ARE true. Likewise certain aspects ARE false. Until that is recognized as common ground for dialog, the rest of the effort is wasted. Former Adventists point to the part that is false, while those still clinging to Adventism as their "ark of safety" expend a lot of energy pointing out the part that contains truth. The rebuttals at the EG White Estate are a perfect example -- even better than the knee-jerk responses at CARM, etc. It seems to me that the focus MUST continually be brought back around to the position that it doesn't matter how much truth there is in Ellen White's (often plagarized) statements -- if there is also falsehood. Some are patently obvious. The focus for dialog needs to be on those. The spotlight has to be kept on the false statements that she made, and not a "truth" that she wrote to "balance" out each falsehood. Equally critical is the importance of continuously pointing out that "half-truths" are not the same as the truth -- just more dangerous. If she made statements -- any statements -- that are not true, then they are "half-truths". Adventists must be forced to demonstrate accountability for her false statements, and not to just respond by quoting one of her statements that IS true. Like the three sources provided at the top of this thread, they can quote "truth" all day long. So can the devil, for that matter. And the devil can perform miracles, and on and on. The "acid test" is whether any of what she wrote is false -- especially that which she claimed God showed her. The "truthfulness" of what she claims God showed does not change over time. And yes, as a "continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction", she and her writings are to be held to a much higher standard than those of us who make no such claims. Where the Bible is silent she (and by extension the Seventh-day Adventist Church) has no authority from God to make additions. Come to think of it, why should she be an authority anyway? Isn't the Bible complete? Since even "half-truths" contain truth, the test is not whether the right words are being used. It is whether there are any falsehoods in the mix. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 617 Registered: 4-2006 |
Well written Gilbert. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1121 Registered: 4-2000  |
Gilbert, An excellent analysis! Thank you for the Deseret News clips that confirm my conviction in this matter of subtle deception. Traditionally, Seventh-day Adventists have not been known for their frequent use of the name of "Jesus" during their worship services. They have been repeatedly criticized for it in recent times. Consequently, some larger SDA churches now talk about Jesus constantly from the pulpit--notably their college/university churches. Apparently, they are hopeful to retain more than 50 percent of their students by changing their vocabulary. Likewise, to avert criticism, the College View SDA Church, here in Lincoln, Nebraska, has finally erected a huge cross on the outside of their front door (imagine having a "Popish" or "pagan" symbol adorn the remnant church). Furthermore, Ellen White is displayed in the stained-glass windows of the College View SDA Church. The Catholic designer of the stained-glass windows felt that Ellen White was important enough in SDA dogma to merit having her featured in their stained-glass windows. The unofficial SDA maxim appears to be, "If it looks or sounds good, let's do it!" Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on June 24, 2007) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3860 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jorgfe, From what I see on CARM, the SDAs only see "half truth", if it does not agree with their beliefs. Of course the formers aggressively show them the half truth. So, what to do??? I just pray for everyone that writes on CARM. I will not debate. When a person tries to get me to give the answer they want, I tell them that I am leaving them to God, because we do not agree. Diana | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1122 Registered: 4-2000 |
A close look at the stained-glass windows of the College View SDA Church (originally having cost $100,000.00 in the late 1970s) depict Jesus being baptized by sprinkling or pouring. To the consternation of Adventists, the Catholic designer, having studied Adventism for only one month, imposed her own understanding of baptism in the window panels (smile). I don't know of any other Adventist church that depicts Ellen White in their stain-glass windows. They also, on special occasions, bring out the velvet-padded pulpit that Ellen White preached from when she visited the old, wood-framed College View SDA Church. Although frequently and relentlessly mocking Catholics, Seventh-day Adventists prize wooden relics and images in their stained-glass as well. Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on June 24, 2007) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6124 Registered: 12-2003  |
Oh, my goodness...Thank you for the quotes/links above, Gilbert. Excellent analysis, by the way. I agree with Dennis: thank you for confiming my sense that the subtle deception of Adventism is really no different from the JWs and the Mormons. They ALL are learning to speak of Jesus". And Dennis, you're right about Adventists beginning to make very much more about Jesus than they used to. I believe they really are reacting to the things formers say. River, your comment totally echoed my own thought. As I read the quote from Don Schneider above, I had the same thought: we are BORN disconnected from God. Only once we are connected are we protected from being torn away. And indeed, the sin against the Holy Spirit IS not pardonable. Wow. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 927 Registered: 9-2006 |
Quote: One former Adventist pastor told him that the present situation was a battle for the very soul of Adventism. I wonder what the former Adventist Pastor meant by that, Battle for the very soul of Adventism? What I see is more Adventist Jargon and a circling of the Ellen White wagons to try to put a positive face on her teaching and to ignore the negative. What I see is that Adventism was founded pretty much on her and her “Visions” to lead people down the merry path to denying what he Bible teaches. One thing I believe is that they face a new day what with the internet and software available to the masses on personal computers at a price most people can afford. Take this forum for example, the stories and experience told on here are too much alike to be the individual floundering of a few. There have already been people in other walks of life such as political that have ignored the internet to their dismay. Another example is proclamation!, this is going to strike a cord with many Adventist who read it. The only way I see to really deal with Adventism is to expose it for what it is. Seems to me that might do more good than anything else, I get the feeling to argue with them is useless to a great extent although I believe some former Adventist may be called to do just that, and if they are truly called of God to do that, then they will do just that and they (Adventist) won’t be able to shut them down. One thing I have begun to realize is that for any missionary called to a people one must know the language and the customs, you all, better than I know the language and the customs of the Adventist world and you have a chance to reach them for the gospels sake. Individually, I don’t think we can get very far by bringing attack on their customs and traditions. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 929 Registered: 9-2006 |
That post was meant for the thread above but, Oh well, I shouldn't post when I am tired. River | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 183 Registered: 5-2007 |
That was good stuff, River. Also, Amen to what Gilbert has posted above. One thought really hits me, the things the SDAs say about the Catholics really amount to the "pot calling the kettle black". |
