| Author | Message | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 122 Registered: 5-2007 |
I am now going to do something with Adventist theology akin to taking the limit of a function in Calculus. Since the Great Controversy is probably the book that Adventist theology is most based on, let's take a look at what EGW said about the IJ and salvation and take its limit. EGW essentially says you have to be SINLESS and PERFECT when Christ comes. NEWS FLASH, NO ONE can do that WE are NOT Christ. If you take this to it's logical conclusion, it is IMPOSSIBLE by Adventist theology for ANYONE including EGW, all the saints of the Old and New Testaments(even the Old Testamant saints that the Book of Hebrews clearly stated were saved) to be saved. So IF EGW is right then Jesus died on the cross for NOTHING! Yes folks, apply mathematical thinking to Adventist theology and that's what you get, they believe without even realising it that it is IMPOSSIBLE to be saved therefore making Jesus' death on the cross for NOTHING. WHAT BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!! If you think mathematically about Adventist theology there is no way you can accept it. Could this be why no Adventist Univeristies offer degrees in Math. Maybe I could be the "poster boy" for why an Adventist shouldn't study Mathematics at a Public University.(LOL). | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2007 |
Excellent post Reb. I much admire mathmatical thinking, and can do a little of my own, but yours seems superior. Can you speculate if Adventism produces people who are math-comprimised?? The Holy Spirit must have made me think of a twist on your scenario. SDA's will then say, nobody is perfect, all have sinned. So they hope to get out of your model with that mental slipknot - all have sinned. Here is the twist you can introduce to them: Say there is a little child of 9, who never was accountable, (so never chose to sin) and that child just entered accountability when when SDA probation was over, so that child has no sins to repent for pre-probation-period, nor any sins to repent for post-probation-period, because he is now living totally sinless in the sight of God without an intercessor. So this example proves that some will not need Christs blood at all. Again, straight from the Devil. (I no longer call the pre-devil Lucifer as EGW did 123 times. Lucifer is only used once in the Bible and it refers to a proud, haughty king that is being brought low. Yet more heresy.) Does that fit, or can it use improvement? | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 124 Registered: 5-2007 |
Excellent, Larry. You hit the nail on the head. I don't think Adventism produces math compromised people, rather most Adventists don't seem to care much about higher Mathematics. Perhaps EGW thought the higher Maths to be frivoulous? (Message edited by Reb on June 01, 2007) | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2007 |
SDA theology: An unsolvable problem in desperate search for a solution! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1834 Registered: 10-2004  |
Here are some things EGW had to say about Mathematics:
Jeremy | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 126 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hmmmmm. Thanks, Jeremy. Seems then like EGW didn't approve of higher mathematics. Do you think it's partly because the type of thinking that Maths beyond Calculus 3 and Differential Equations with the emphasis on proofs, is such that one educated in higher Maths would have the thinking style to see clearly that Adventism is a total sham? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5961 Registered: 12-2003  |
I think Ellen was probably unimpressed with math because it wasn't important to her. I believe math had a certain importance to James, however, who pursued his entreprenurial pursuits with an eye to making money. He once told Ellen that there was still money in their pens.(Not sure of the source...Jeremy?) Richard just read the quotes above and noted in particular the last paragraph ending with this sentence: "That was a wise father, who, when asked what he intended to do with his daughters, replied, 'I intend to apprentice them to their excellent mother, that they may learn the art of improving time, and be fitted to become wives and mothers, heads of families, and useful members of society.'" He commented, "No wonder Adventism is such a matriarchal society." Hmmm...it's pretty depressing to imagine what it must have been like to be a little SDA girl in 1880 or so.... Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1836 Registered: 10-2004 |
Reb, I don't know if she would have been that smart herself, but the spirit working behind her (1 John 4)...maybe! Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on June 01, 2007) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1837 Registered: 10-2004 |
Colleen, An article on ellenwhite.org says:
And truthorfables.com has the following quote from James to Ellen:
Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5966 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thank you, Jeremy. Amazing. Colleen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 128 Registered: 5-2007 |
I sometimes wonder if James even really loved Ellen or just saw her as a "cash cow". There is a quote by Lucinda Burdick who was an acquaintance of EGW's that before James married Ellen he said "I have no intention of marrying that deformed little thing". Doesn't sound like love to me. Soon after that James and Ellen were married, I think he saw $$$$$$$. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 809 Registered: 9-2006  |
I suppose I would have failed Ellen expectations because I could understand Trig and I have done fairly well with computer logic, at least enough to get by, getting really rusty with all that now, but I did get through college with 3.0 grade average in Electronics for communications and Microwave. However I cannot add basic numbers in my head and hardly on paper. I failed English, did terrible in geography,passed basic math only so the teacher could get rid of me, I even failed P.E once because I refused to play basket ball with the other students, but when they acquired a wrestling matt I excelled, Ellen surely would have frowned on that! No fighting or kick boxing pu-leeze. I suppose she would have said I was a lost ne'er do well, Oh well, failed someone expectations again! whats new? Jeremy your knowledge of Ellen rather amazes me. Ellen was just about an authority on everything wasn't she. How durst you question such fine intelligence Jeremy old bean?  River | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1840 Registered: 10-2004 |
River, don't be too amazed--I have a CD-ROM of all her published writings that I can search (plus my sister helped me know what to search for to find that last one about women and cubed roots...). Isn't it incredible how Ellen really did try to control every single aspect of life for her followers? And she blamed it all on "god"! If that's not a cult leader, I don't know what is! Jeremy | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2007 |
OK, I hope not to turn this into an all out feeding frenzy, but Jeremy said "Ellen really did try to control every single aspect of life" ... and that pushed me over the Ellen edge! I was browsing through her Councils Diets Foods the other day, searching for the quote where she told a man that diet was HIS salvation. Maybe you can find it Jeremy, I was not able to. But I did run into quotes that we dishonor God by not chewing thoroughly, or too fastly. Also that cold foods were verbotten, God would also not like that! Seems like nothing was off limits to her. Then there is the jewel quote that criticizes parent for feeding their children eggs and butter, with the rejoinder "how high do your prayers go". The very next page, but 30 years later, she is extolling the many virtues of eggs, either raw or cooked. Truely amazing. And this passes for inspiration! Truely sad as well. Is it any wonder I go on livid rants with the head elder of that church? Last nite I had a run in with the interim pastor that called for my wife. I had a hard time getting straight answers from him, all the while showing him how evasive and deceptive he was trying to be... (literally showed him). His name is Phi| Dunnh@m and he is supposedly an Ellen White expert. Sorry to be so off topic Reb. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 130 Registered: 5-2007 |
It's ok, Larry. What you said is very intersting. Yes, I am more and more convinced that Ellen White fits the profile of a cult leader to a "T". And that the SDA church is a "cult". In fact I hear SDAs complaining that people think they are a cult. All I can say to them is if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck it just might be a duck, ya think? | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 563 Registered: 6-2006  |
Reb and Larry, it always amazes me that some of my relatives spend more time in Ellen's word than in God's. Now to me, that's putting Ellen into "god" status. If you're spending all your time and effort and worry on what Ellen preached then it would be a good time to take inventory and see who's really the boss. Leigh Anne | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2007 |
Leigh Anne, Thanks for your comment, but I do not read Ellen White for anything other than error analysis. If this were not a valid technique, you and I would not be able to enjoy the likes of www.ellenwhite.org , right? The Holy Spirit can use many talents, not all of us possess the same exact talents as the next person. One of my talents is error detection. I put it to use on EGW's writings, with the hope that I can SHOW adventists just how error ridden their whole theology is. If a mirror held to their face does not show them who they are, then what will, besides prayer and a prison cell? You cannot tell me that we have to throw logic out, after all, we were given brains so that we would be human. I pray that logic will have some effect on their perception of their doctrines. If we did not know what the Bible said, we would not be able to analyze for error. It takes a working knowledge of the Bible for this to work at all, and that is exactly what SDA's lack - a working knowledge of the gospel of the Bible. My take on why SDA's do NOT have a working knowledge of the gospel of the Bible is because they have been given over to a time-curse, set into action around 160 years ago. Once they accepted the first lies that God shew Wm. Miller when the world would end, etc, and never repented of accusing God of involvement in this timesetting ordeal, He gave them over to the lie (2 Thessalonians 2). That is why they also have been given over to the Sabbath keeping thing, they are unable to discern the truth about time anymore. Their Sabbath is a recurring, time related thing. I think the same goes for their 2300 day prophecy that they have functionally ADDED to Revelation. They are time cursed, and cannot see anything wrong with their theory. Of course the DARCOM panel had to issue 7 volumes of scholarly quibbling that no simple person could hope to follow, as part of the actual gospel. And the conclusion to the DARCOM books is wrong anyway because they were written by time-decieved men. When it comes to the book of Hebrews, they are again cursed with a time lie, as they state that Christ did things differently than stated, and waited 18 centuries (more time lies) to start yet another, ongoing lie - Investigative Judgment. There are actually no end to the lies I have found in Adventism. But if you cannot point them out, SDA's seem to have credibility. Of course it is good to contrast SDA lies with the true gospel. Never take away without giving something in its place! In Early Writings, there is a passage that states that at some future point in TIME, God will tell his people the day and hour of His coming, in spite of the Bible saying that "no man knows the day or hour". Corporately, it can be shown that this organization has been given over to the lie. Many a time I have been told by an SDA that they would "get back to me later" on a particular issue I had them cornered on. Guess what, it was another time-related lie! Not once has anyone ever gotten back to me. Is anyone starting to notice a common theme? I just did a quick search at whiteestate and EGW uses the word "time" in a mere 9383 instances! Leigh Anne, if I want to warn neighbors of SDA's, I had better be prepared to back my claims up. And yes, I warn people about SDA's. Why risk another soul getting caught up in that hellish filth? I could go on and on, but I will not bore you further. Hope I don't sound too brash. But I am not too apologetic about this either. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 564 Registered: 6-2006 |
Larry, I sure wish my in-laws were reading EGW for the same reason as you! My fil constantly has his nose in one of her books and My bil is so "hardcore" that it seemed like for years each new years eve was going to be "it". He was positive in 1985 that Jesus was coming, and then again in 1986, etc. Now he's out spreading the false gospel of the "sanctuary message" across the country. For him, I really feel that Ellen is his savior. I like how you back up your claims. I've started using the same kind of thing when I KNOW there is an "Ellenism". I just say "Back it up! Show me the scripture!" Leigh Anne | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 822 Registered: 9-2006 |
Larry, you quoted "My take on why SDA's do NOT have a working knowledge of the gospel of the Bible is because they have been given over to a time-curse, set into action around 160 years ago. Once they accepted the first lies that God shew Wm. Miller when the world would end, etc, and never repented of accusing God of involvement in this timesetting ordeal, He gave them over to the lie (2 Thessalonians 2). That is why they also have been given over to the Sabbath keeping thing, they are unable to discern the truth about time anymore. Their Sabbath is a recurring, time related thing. Now that just might be profound, I found your take on it very interesting, being given over to the lie they insisted on keeping. I never looked at it in exactly that way. Thanks for your post. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5983 Registered: 12-2003 |
Wow--actually, Larry, I never looked at it that way before, either. It makes sense. Interesting insight! Colleen |
