| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 27 Registered: 5-2007 |
I have been studying my Bible and several books regarding the New Covenant. I find that I am still firmly standing in both camps. Old and New. In the SDA teachings and new considerations. There is that natural state of confusion that happens when we discover that there may be errors. There is fear that if I was wrong all these years , I could be wrong now in this new discovery phase. Or, equally, that I may be throwing out the truth trying to embrace new truths. I have doubts. That this is too good to be true. After being so enslaved for so many years. Accepting that being a Christian and being a human is simply a life of sorrow and hard discipline. (Stealing my joy). I know that where I am now , the realization that my past systems simply do not work. Somethings have to change. So, I discover that I am still at the foundation phase of this reconstruction. Thus, getting the basics (doctrine) in place is vital if I am to move ahead and start living a new and better way. God is leading. I believe that. Thus there are a few questions I want to put out there. I am hoping some of you may have pointed/targeted examples that you can share. I am searching for anchor points. For keys and reasonings that are specific. 1) I am still fearful of breaking the Sabbath. I am afraid to work on or purchase anything on Sabbath. I have studied this subject in depth. I ask: What key passage set you free fromn this question of keeping sabbath or not? How did you escape the dread of losing four times the value of what you sought to gain by working on the Sabbath. (That is a warning EGW put in my head). 2) I am fearful about the tithe issue. Again I have studied this one to extremes. I am afraid to NOT tithe. This is not about saving extra money. It is about what freedoms do I have, what system is acceptabel. What controls do I have, what choices am I free to make IF I accept that Tithe as a system and an obligation is no longer valid. So many churches still preach the tithe and yet have no real authorization to do so from the NT scriptures that I cab find. Thus, What set you free? How do you embrace it? Can we divide up our giving and use our own system of giving? I want to use my money in ways that I have a desire and calling to fund. The SDA system is federated as I call it. Tithe is a church tax more than anything else to me. I feel disconnected from that giving system. I feel my tithe is wasted more often than not in the SDA system. The kind of thing I am looking for is if you use a specific scripture that has set you free. Tell me how you interpreted it, how you applied it, to that one specific example. Each of us have worked through roadblocks. Some scripture was internalized through cognitive reasoning. These are what I am looking for. These are the testimonies that help me get there. I am trying to isolate and reduce information overloads so that I can get down to the actual connections. Most people can give you broad global tangnets to get to a truth. Yet, I believe that inside the thoughts of each person, they have a key anchor, a key passage , a related reasoning that has become the foundation and conviction to that doctrine or issue. I would love to see a book like this. 3) State of the dead. Soul sleep or not. Concious or not? Which is it. Can't have it both ways. Ecc says their thoughts have perished. Thessalonians speaks of The Dead in Christ. I have never read that conscious souls are coming back with him to be given bodies. Rather , simply they are given bodies at the resurection. Thanks, Jim02 | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 176 Registered: 1-2006  |
Jim The book of Galatians was very helpful to me. In reading the NT, I found it very helpful to substitute "Adventists" every time "judiazers" or "circumcision party" or "teachers of the law" is mentioned. Be careful doing this, obviously, but the parallels are striking. The Lord will lead you, both your heart (your faith and trust) and your head (your knowledge of Christine doctrine) and he will give you peace and you will know that it is from Him. Bob | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 287 Registered: 11-2005 |
Oh, Jim02--I so know where you're at!! That inbetween phase can be scary, and sometimes even lonely. I know for me, it seemed as if I was the only one who didn't seem to "get" it (on both sides). Fortunately, and mercifully, God didn't let this phase drag on for me. The fellowship and information I gained on this forum was priceless in helping me transition into truth. Okay, so the Sabbath issue. For my husband, who's far more intellectually minded than I am, it was the Hebrews chapter 4 passage that told him, "Wow, you can't get much clearer than that! The Sabbath is no longer an issue for us today." Once he read that, and combined what that passage said with the fact that no where in the New Testament is there instruction given to the new believers (the gentiles) to keep Sabbath, he knew it couldn't be the "seal of God". Now...for me, the Hebrews 4 passage did nothing. I couldn't read it without seeing the SDA view of it. Where my husband is logical, and very fact-based, I tend to think a lot with my heart and can be a lot more stubborn about letting some feelings go. And the truth was, I had a lot of "heart" attachment to the Sabbath. So my convincing looked a lot different. Like you, I went through the whole Old Covenant/New Covenant study. I actually wrote out all the verses, and next to them notes, showing where the Old Covenant was replaced by the New Covenant. I put so much study and prayer into this, that I practically had the verses and passages memorized. I knew all of the facts, and yet, I really still had a hard time letting the Sabbath go. I couldn't bring myself to break it. So, rather than have a verse that "did it for me", I actually had to consciously (by faith, believing what I read in Scripture was true), break the Sabbath. Let me tell you--that was a HUGE step for me. But the contemplation of it was far worse that the reality of it. It was AFTER I took that step of faith, that all of a sudden, the New Covenant made more sense. I not only began to realize intellectually that the Sabbath was no longer necessary to keep, but I began to FEEL and KNOW DEEPLY that Jesus was now my Sabbath rest. That was when my true confirmation hit for me. Again, I don't know your personality type, or how God will choose to work in your life. Every person has their own and unique experience; what "works" for some, doesn't work for others. But no matter who we are, or where we came from, God is faithful and will reveal truth to us in HIS time when we truly seek Him. Praise God that we worship a God who knows us individually, and "custom works" in our lives according to what we need to know Him personally! By the way, there is a passage that ended up confirming it all for me (after the fact). I had read it SEVERAL times before, but it wasn't until about two weeks after I broke that first Sabbath that all of a sudden the chapter came alive to me, and I broke out in tears (and joy!) over it. It was 1 Corinithians 3. I realized then, that the Spirit of God had "written" in my heart, and that I was no longer condemned to death but that the Spirit brought life! And then the verses 12-18 hit me hard. I knew then that my veil had been removed by Jesus Christ! God rescued me from my hardened mind and heart... "Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit." Hang in there, Jim02! We all know what you're going through! Grace (Message edited by snowboardingmom on June 02, 2007) | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 288 Registered: 11-2005 |
Oh yes, regarding tithe and state of dead--these issues took lots of time after the Sabbath issue (I had to deal with one issue at a time), and these were approached in a much more intellectual way (I didn't have attachments to these issues really, just fear!). But once I knew Jesus was my rest, and that He would lead me into truth, I could logically approach these subjects without condemnation and fear. Then they just kind of fell into place. (The state of dead one was harder). I'll let someone else discuss that--I have a diaper to change on my son!! Grace | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 560 Registered: 3-2001 |
Jim, I totally appreciate where you are right now. Just remember, as has been said many times here, that your leaving is a process. You have had many years of indoctrination, and they are not going to disappear over night. Its been six years for me, and I still feel like a new believer. I have to carefully consider everything to make sure that I'm not still veiwing it through my SDA blinders. I offer the challenge to you that was offered to me. I think it was the greatest advice anyone could have given me. It actually occurred at a time when I was vehemently defending Adventist truths--even though I considered myself to be full of grace (a liberal Adventist, if you would). Anyway, this person challenged me to read the New Testament for one month without the aid of any extrabiblical sources. They asked me o put aside any preconceived notions, and to let the Bible speak for itself. The books that I would especially recommend that you read are Galatians, Romans, Ephesians, Hebrews, Colossians, and 2 Corinthians. I think you will be amazed at the harmony between these books. The hting you have to realize is that you have been taught to study the Bible topically. While that can be a great method, it also presents great opportunity for prooftexting. The problem with most Adventist doctrine is that it begins with a premise, then sets out to find scripture to support it (you know, "here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept). You will find that when you begin to study the Bible contextually, it will open up a whole other world. Don't worry so much about specific doctrines, those will be addressed as you just listen to what the Spirit wants to teach you, not necessarily what you want to learn. One of the amazing things since I learned to study contextually is that I realized that when Paul wrote the book of Romans, he wrote a complete letter. It wasn't intended to be read piece milled. Now that's not to say that once I understand what the entire book says contextually that I cannot apply the principles somewhere else, but the context always comes first. Now, I generally do not entertain a topic unless I can find a substantial portion of scripture that deals specifically with that topic. That rules out discussions about things like the IJ. If that is such a central issue, are we to understand that God did not provide any specific instruction about it other than a few verses that can only be interpreted if they are read in a particular translation? I think not. It seems as though you may still be looking for the "rules" (i.e. what's okay and what's not). I don't say that as a criticism or judgement. I think we all went through that process. Many of us leave the SDA Church, then set out looking for the "right" church (since obviously the SDA Church wasn't it. I think we have to have a paridigm shift. God isn't about rules, He is about relationship. When we focus on the rules, we settle for table scraps when he wants to give us the whole banquet. That's why I suggested the method i did rather than answering the specific topics you asked about. i think that in the process of understanding the mystery of God's will, you will find the answers to your other questions, but by that time you will see that those other issues weren't nearly as important as they have been made out to be. Anyway, I'm not sure if I answered your question. I guess the bottom line is to just let the Spirit be your teacher and be ready to respond to whatever he reveals. Doug (Message edited by Doug222 on June 02, 2007) | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 562 Registered: 6-2006  |
Jim, my prayers are with you. I certainly don't know what you're going through as I'm a "never-been", but I learn so much from your questions as almost all of my in-laws are very active SDA's, and I like to know what their concerns are. One thing I have learned from my friends here is being able to look at the law of Moses (that includes the 10Cs) as something that belonged to the Jews. It was never in effect before Moses, and completed when Jesus was crucified on the cross. (The bible says the law was "nailed" to the cross) It never belonged to us Christians. As you read through the New Testament you'll see that tithe and Sabbath were never commanded or given to the followers of Christ. When Jesus ascended to Heaven some of the new Christians were Jewish to begin with and continued on with Sabbath, but the gentile believers didn't. They met on Sundays or whatever days they could meet. (It wasn't the Pope who started that, in fact it was long before he came along). Also, you'll find that the 10Cs were never separated from the entire law. (I still wish I knew why someone thought to make that up!) Those are some of the things you can look out for as you study. Jesus is your Sabbath rest dear friend. Your salvation is in believing in him alone. (1 Cor 15) ((HUG))) Leigh Anne | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5971 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jiim, your struggle so mirrors the one I had: the paralyzing doubt and fear, the worry that I was dumping truth for a new deception, the fear that I had been deceived as Ellen said people would be and was abandoning the truth, etc. etc. My experience was very much like Grace's above. Richard said that the text that "did it" for him was Hebrews 4 regarding the Sabbath. For me oddly, enough, it was the transfiguration in Matthew 17. Actually, it was when I read Dale's Ratzlaff's explanation that to the Jews Moses represented the Law and Elijah represented the prophets that the whole event made sense, and the New Covenant made sense. Peter, like any good Jew, saw Moses, Elijah, and Jesus being together and Jesus being honored among these men who had been taken to heaven, and he wanted to honor all three. He was thinking Jesus was to have the honor that the Law and the Prophets had, and he was ready to honor them all! God covered the three with a cloud, and His voice said, "This is my Son; listen to Him!" Then Jesus said, "Get up!" And when the three disciples looked up, JESUS ALONE was in front of them. The Law and the Prophets had disappeared, and God's voice echoed in their ears instructing that JESUS was the One they were to obey. To confirm the implications of this event, Jesus told the three on their way down that mountain that they were not to tell anyone what they had seen or heard until after His resurrection from the dead. Until Jesus died and rose again, the Law and the Prophets were the rule of faith and practice for God's people. Only when Jesus would rise from the dead would the Law and the Prophets be completely fulfilled in Him, and new covenant would replace the old. Of course, there were other implications in this event as well: the foreshadowing of the glory of Christ's kingdom, the sense of the continuity from Moses and Ellijah and what God had asked them to do with the completion of their assignments inm the person of Jesus, their discussion with Jesus of His imminent death...etc. But the implications of the law and the prophets being fulfilled in Jesus was what really did it for me. Then, as Grace said, I had to "break" the Sabbath by faith. I remember very distinctly the mental reasoning I went through. I realized that in the back of my mind I was hedging my bets--what IF the Sabbath was eternally significant, and I was rejecting God's will? I finally realized, after reading so much in the NT, that I had to RISK placing my trust only in Jesus. I had to decide to abandon everything I had ever learned and trust in Jesus alone. If He alone is the way to salvation, if my eternal security was based on Him alone, then I had to give up all my "what if's" and fears and trust HIM. The day we decided to leave the Sabbath behind was momentous. We had fear...but our heads told us that Jesus cannot lie, and His word cannot lie. I deliberately did the laundry, and Richard deliberately made the public statement of mowing the lawn. A week later Richard said to me, "I've experienced Jesus every day this week more than I ever experienced Him on Sabbath. What I've had this week was what I always wanted from Sabbath, but I never had it." I was so surprised, because I had had exactly the same expereince, Jesus totally confirmed His presence and love and honored our trust in Him. This sort of assurance doesn't happen by studying. The studying MUST precede the obedience, but it is the obedience that brings the affirmation. Jesus asks us to match our behavior with our convictions. Only when we trust Him with congruence in our whole experience do we find the blessing He has PROMISED. It's a promise, Jim—He writes His law on our hearts, the ministry of the Spirit is far more glorious than the ministry of death written in stone (2 Cor 3). His promises are ALL "Yes" in Jesus (2 Cor 1:20). Colleen | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 561 Registered: 3-2001 |
Jim, One other thought. If you are interested in getting a good understanding of the Sabbath issue (and by default an understanding of the Old and New Covenants), get your hands on a copy of Dale Ratzlaf's book "Sabbath in Christ." It is excellent. It will address both of those texts Colleen just mentioned and a wealth of others. Doug | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 484 Registered: 11-2004 |
Hi Jim, As for examples I hope the following is helpful  Sabbath - Key for me was understanding that the commandments referred to 1 John were not the 10 commandments. 1 John 3 "19By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24Whoever keeps his commandments abides in him, and he in them. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us." 1 John defines the commandments. Then I realized that the same guy who wrote 1 John through the Holy Spirit also wrote Revelation where it talks about those who keep the commandments. I realized that there was no basis to say that these were the 10 commandments especially when 1 John 3 defines the commands as believing in Jesus and agape loving one another. Another thing that helped me was realizing that the old covenant was the 10 commandments. I was actually shocked to read versus that come right out and say that like: Deut 4:13 "He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets." 2 Corinthians 3 was also very good in helping me understand. Tithing This has been more recent for me. I realized that not all Israelites were required to tithe. I realized that Abraham didn't tithe off his increase - he tithed off the spoils of war. He tithed 10% and gave the rest back to the original owners. Jesus wouldn't have been required to tithe either. Only some professions were required to tithe. I found this resource to be a good one: http://www.tithing.christian-things.com/howmuch.html In the new covenant I believe it holds us to a higher standard - everything we have belongs to Him. We died and our new life is hidden in Him. Tithing says that we own 90%, but in reality He owns it all and He directs us when and where and how much to give. State of the Dead What helped me was understanding that spirit is more than breath. If you look at John 3 it says our spirit is what is reborn. The Bible also says that His Spirit testifies with our spirit. Both words for spirit come from the same Greek word. Also it was helpful to understand that our bodies are what sleep in the dust, but our spirit does not. Also this text was important to me: 1 Thessalonians 4 "13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep." In verse 14 it says that God is bringing those who have fallen asleep. I had read this so many times as an Adventist and I has assumed that this meant that God is bringing them to heaven, but the context suggests that Jesus was bringing the saints to get their glorified bodies and not referring to taking them up to heaven. Hebrews 12 was also helpful to me "22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel." It speaks of the church as registered in heaven and then mentions that the spirits of just men are there. I realized that was not talking about someone's breath. Anyway hope that helps | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 289 Registered: 11-2005 |
Ooops...yes, it's 2 Corinthians, not 1 Corinthians!--sorry about that! Praying for you, Jim. Grace | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 562 Registered: 3-2001 |
U2, I always wondered about this passage too, even while a SDA. I always tried to figure out a way to reconcile it with the church's teachings on the state of the dead, but never really had an answer that was satisfactory. I think this it was a classic case of beginning with a premise, then seeking to prove wht you already know/believe. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 701 Registered: 7-2004  |
Jim, The in-between is perhaps the hardest stage. And I am quite familiar with asking one's self the question, if I was fooled before how do I know I am not being fooled again. But also keep in mind that this is not a race to a destination. We are saved by His gift, not by passing a doctrinal quiz. Feeling pressured to understand something new isn't always condusive to developing a firm understanding. Take your time. Spend time reading books of the Bibles, rather than just prepared topical studies. The Bible is a special book, go directly to the source. There is plenty of value in reading other people's studies, but that value doesn't compare with contextual reading of Scripture. The suggestions you have heard so far are right on the target. Romans. Galatians. Hebrews. The Gospels. Read through them looking at all they have to say, rather than just picking up verses that support one position or another. We are so used to having Scripture filtered and interpreted for us, that we deeply need to time spent solely in His Word. Trust that He will bring understanding of His Word. And rest in that trust. (Message edited by ric_b on June 02, 2007) | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 230 Registered: 1-2004  |
One of the key texts that allowed me to break away from my SDA understanding of the law was this; Gal 2:18 I finally realized that in context, what was being built again was the Jewish law, for Gentiles. When I saw this clearly, the New Testament began to appear almost like a different book. Jeremiah | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 837 Registered: 10-2002  |
Hi Jim. I'm praying for you. Like Ric said, remember that we aren't saved by doctrinal knwowledge. In SDA we were raised to basically think of our salvation like an SAT test or an MCAT. We had to study hard to be saved because if we didn't we would be deceived. But Isaiah 53 says "By HIS knowledge My righteous Servant will justify many." It is Christ and what HE knows that saves us. We aren't able to know everything. It is His knowledge that saves us. Jeremiah 23 and 33 say that Christ's name is "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS". He IS our righteousness. We are saved by HIM. It's not what you know or what I know. It's what HE knows. It's not what you have done or will do -- it is what HE has done for you. Blessings in Him as you ask Him to minister His love to you and bring you into His rest. Your brother in Him, Ramone | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 838 Registered: 10-2002 |
P.S. Jim, the Lord your God is with you. He is mighty to save you. He takes great delight in you. He will quiet you with His love. He rejoices over you with singing. (zeph 3:17) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3728 Registered: 3-2004  |
I recently re read Heb 4 and it came very clear to me what God's rest in Jesus is. Three years ago when I read it, I understood that we rest in Jesus. When I read it the other day, I saw that we rest in Him because we no longer are working to earn/win salvation. We rest from our working to earn/win salvation. That really gave me an aha moment. It was this verse that convinced me about sabbath keeping and that resting in Jesus was more important. Jim, I will be praying for you. God will guide you through this, one day at a time. He is awesome. He promised. Diana | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 119 Registered: 10-2006 |
Jim, I recently realized that Adventism had become a demonic stronghold in my spiritual life. It was a sin, a curse that I was putting on myself and allowing the enemy to attach this monkey on my back. Then the Lord reminded me that He had been faithful in taking me out of this denomination, and has been healing me ever since. It suddenly hit me that the Lord had answered my prayers to find freedom in Him, and yet it was I who was still hanging on to the guilt, fear and worry that Adventism created in me. I was in effect refusing to be healed, wallowing in doubt, playing the blame game (placing blame on the SDA church and my family) in order to justify certain rebellious behaviors and attitudes. I actually enjoyed some of the Adventist "hangover" because then I had an excuse to not live in Christ totally. When Jesus told the paraplegic to "get up and walk", He meant what he said. The healing does take time, but we also must be willing to take the risk of healing - to stand up, put one foot in front of the other - and walk in Him. Our former selves can only exist to the extent we allow. Believing is not based on knowledge, it is based on giving up and trusting in God to work out the details. If we ask and receive, then why keep looking back? steve | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 819 Registered: 9-2006  |
On garbage cans and monsters. I know there are important questions in your life that you have to seek answers too. I even understand that from a non-Adventist perspective. I do hope that this is taken in the loving way I mean it to be taken. Adventism needs to be seen for the monstrous thing that it is. That it slaughters it own. That to look for mercy and truth there is futile. To look for their understanding and kindness is, I believe futile. To look for something salvageable in its teaching is like picking through a garbage can swarming with fly’s to see if there is still perhaps left something edible enough to eat. One time we were all prepared to leave for church and at the last minute I walked around back of the house to check and make sure I locked the door, we were very poor at the time. There was a street bum picking through my garbage can for food, he was all bruised and bleeding from his head and filthy. The Holy Spirit prompted me to give him the 5.00 I had in my pocket and I gave it to him and told him to get something to eat. I walked back around the house to my car where the family waited, my wife inquired as to why I took so long and I told her about the old man. She rebuked me for giving our last 5.00 to a street bum but I assured her that God would take care of us. That night at church different people came up to me and handed me money and sacks of groceries, every one of them said” Brother, God told me to give you this”. My wife was amazed at this as we were just months into the new born faith and family of God. Now I ask you, would the king of kings be complimented by his children picking through the garbage? God has good things in store and his store house is always ample for our needs. If I could only make you see that you no longer have to pick through the garbage of Adventism, leave it and look to God in faith believing, it is not to good to be true, it is true and God has good things for you. It quite amazes me how folk have written letters to their churches hoping against hope to find some modicum of understanding from a monster that is quite willing to chew them up and spit them out. River | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 137 Registered: 4-2004 |
Jim02, I and my wife left SDA in 1982. We had all of your questions as we were studying out. One major thing that helped us was when we understood that the Law and Old Covenant was only for the Jews. (Deut. 5: 2,3) Then when you study Acts 15 where the Jerusalem council met you find something really interesting. Verse 5 gives the argument of some of the Jewish Christians from the Pharisee party. They wanted gentiles to be circumcised and obey the law of Moses. The ultimate decision of the council is seen in verses 19,20. Circumcision and the Law was not required. It helps to understand the importance of circumcision. For the Jews, circumcision was the symbol of entrance into the Old Covenant. This is shown in several places in the OT. I think the weight of evidence shows that, in most Jewish minds, keeping the Law had no positive effect unless you were circumcised. In relation to the Sabbath question, SDA's and other Sabbatarians always try to establish a link between Genesis 2: 2,3 and the Sabbath commandment in Ex. 20. In other places on the forum it has been demonstrated that Gen. 2 did not mandate any day of rest for man. In Ex. 20, Moses was reminding the people of God as Creator. We also must not forget that God wrote the 10C's on a second set of stone tablets in Deut. 10. Verse 4 states that these were the same 10C's that God had written before. However if you compare the 4th C in Ex. 20 with Deut. 10 there is a major difference in wording. Ex. 20 references God's creative activity at the beginning, while Deut. 10 references God's saving act of the Exodus. How can this be? To me, the most logical explanation is that Moses inserted an anachronism in either Ex. 20 or Deut. 10 or both. It could very well be that what God actually wrote on the stones only said something like, "don't work on Saturday". In any case I think these texts are very weak in "proving" any kind of universal Sabbath. Dane | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2007 |
Hi I am new posting but been a lurker and you all have been such a big help to me as I have been working my way out. Jim02, I can understand where you are coming from and the confusion you are going through. The book of Galations and Hebrews 4:7, where John says "Today if you hear His voice" has really helped me. I have asked the Lord to remove the scales (of adventism)from my eyes as he did the blind man and really let me hear His voice instead of EGW/Jesus voice. I have been going to a church that strictly teaches from the bible; book, chapter and verse. Not the here a little there a little. The Sunday School class I attend has been very patient with me when every once in a while I get off base and they gently bring me back showing me where I am wrong without making me guilty for the error so that I can come home and study some more on the subject. Dear precious Jesus I come before you on behalf of Jim and ask you to remove the scales from his eyes and the background noise of SDA teaching as he studies your word and fill him abundently with new hunger and love You have to offer him. I thank you for being with him and praise You in your holy name Amen |
