| Author | Message | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2004 |
Hi, I haven't posted in a long time. I have gone through a wilderness experience since I have last been here. I stopped going to church due to family and work. I know that I belong in a church somewhere. When I left the Adventist church I ended up attending a charismatic church. It did not turn out to be a good fit. The lack of bible study and questionable theology does not work for me. I am trying to decide between two churches, both are interdenominational. One church is the largest in New England. The preaching is bible centered. The children's program is unbelievably good. I am just concerned that with such a large church it would be difficult to have any questions answered. There is no Sunday School for adults. So I would have to be very lucky to be assigned to the right small group if I was going to learn anything. The other church I am considering is smaller and has adult Sunday School. They just finished studying Romans, I know that I would be able to grow there. The kids will be doing VBS here and the church is looking for a youth pastor. So, hopefully the children's program will improve. Anyways, I attended there membership class not to join, but the pastor said people were welcome to attend for more info. The doctrines they believe are long, 14 of them. The larger church only has four and they are very general. The one doctrine I am stuck on involves hell, I am still not sure on that one. The other one reads as follows "The believer, having turned to God in penitent faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, is accountable to God for living a life separated from sin and characterized by the fruit of The Spirit. It is his responsibility to contribute by word and deed to the universal spread of the gospel." My issue with this statement is that I am never going to be sin free. I learned that too well all my years as a guilty Adventist. I am so thankful that Jesus has done it all. (No, I am not living in willful sin, i.e. adultery etc.) Am I reading to much into this doctrine. If I had never read EGW I probably wouldn't take issue with it. Any thoughts, thanks | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3745 Registered: 3-2004  |
Busymom, God directed me to the church I go to, so I cannot really say what you should do. Pastor Gary Inrig, the Tinker's pastor, gave a sermon about what to look for in a church at the FAF reunion. There were 3 things-Christ centered, believe in the Trinity, and the inerrancy of the Bible. Those are the three must haves. So, I will pray for you right now. Father in heaven, You are the I AM and the Alpha and Omega. Because of Jesus we can come to you and call you Father. Please lead Busymom to the church where You want her, where she will learn the most about you and where she and her children will grow in knowledge of You. Guide her and keep her and supply her needs, as you have promised. You are awesome. Diana | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 844 Registered: 9-2006  |
Busymom, I take it that you would like different opinions on this sentence, so knowing that you have the ability to make up your own mind as to the church you attend; it is with this in mind that I will give some thoughts on it. "The believer, having turned to God in penitent faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, is accountable to God for living a life separated from sin and characterized by the fruit of The Spirit. It is his responsibility to contribute by word and deed to the universal spread of the gospel." What I think the sentence says is that we are accountable to God for ‘living a life away from deliberate sin, or becoming involved in things we know that it is wrong and shouldn’t become involved in and characterized by producing the fruit of the spirit instead of those things and therefore contributing to the spread of the gospel. I don’t believe it is talking about perfection, but willful sin and bringing reproach on the church, having said that, some things bother me that I would want answered. Why is this sentence necessary? Why is it necessary for a “membership class”? They obviously feel that it is necessary or they wouldn’t be giving the class. The very fact that they have “membership” classes would indicate to me that they are setting me up for control of my life and that would take me out of control of the Holy Spirit and the 14 “statements of faith” or “doctrines” would seem to verify that. Although having not read them, that would seem a bit much to me, whereas the four general statements of faith of the larger church sounds more like what would be necessary for another Christian to join their church. I am honestly troubled about this. Although you have already stated that you have attended these “classes” with no commitment to join, the whole “class” thing troubles me for some reason. You know, I forget what the small card said when my wife and I decided to join our church, it is Assembly of God so perhaps I could look it up on the internet but I know it was minimal and most of the questions were concerning in what capacity we would like to serve in, i.e., music, teaching and so forth. I suppose I am sort of like a timid dog being offered a piece of bread, I will crawl up to it on my belly and sniff, blow through my nose and jump back, although I am hungry I will stand and examine you and only after I have fully made up my mind that I will not be harmed will slowly and tentatively move forward and taste the bread but if I see one sign that you intend to capture me the deal is off. Now these folks say “We don’t care, take the bread or no”, as they offer it in an offhand way, but standing sideways does not change the fact that I am very finicky about who feeds me. I sniff and snuffle and snort at just about everything that comes my way and I ain’t never been close to being an Adventist, I can just about imagine how you folks are and I don’t blame you one whit. Those are just some of my thoughts on the subject of churches n things. I do pray that you will be led to something you can live with. There are many good bible based churches out there for one to fellowship with and share our faith. Sounds to me like you are putting the old sniffer to good use, far as I’m concerned it is an unwise puppy that goes around scarfing up everything in sight. OMHO. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6006 Registered: 12-2003  |
Busymom, the doctrinal statement you quoted would have alarmed me when I first left Adventism. Now, nearly nine years later, it does not. Early on, any talk of obedience and being separated from sin brought up the old issues of works, law-keeping, and anxiety that characterized my life as an Adventist. Now I am seeing that the separation from sin and obedience are not about perfecting oneself and becoming "worthy" or righteous. As Christ-followers who are born again by the Holy Spirit, we HAVE eternal life. As Clay Peck says, now we are not working toward victory, we are working from victory. Obedience and "separation from sin" simply mean learning to live by the Spirit, as Romans 8 explains. When the Holy Spirit is in you, He faithfully convicts you if you are tempted or if you behave outside of the constraints of Christ's love. Now our responsibility is to yield to Him and submit our hearts and minds to Him, being willing to own our faults and weaknesses and sinful reactions and offer them to Jesus. The issue that has become clear to me is that obedience is still very much a part of a Christ-follower's life. Now, however, we are not being obedient to an external law or standard. Now we are being obedient to Jesus Himself as He teaches us and convicts us through His Word, especially through [although not limited to] the words of the apostles in the New Testament who were given the duty of establishing the standards and practices of belief for the church, of ways in which we are not trusting Him. A Christ-follower who is not actively learning to live by the Spirit, allowing Him to weed out one's habitual, even automatic self-serving and self-protecting reactions, is actually living a pretty flat life and is not experiencing growth. Does this make any sense? Regarding hell: that was a sticking point for us when we joined our church, too. We went to the pastor after the membership class to ask him about this issue, and he said that given our Adventist background, this belief would not stand in the way of membership if we were OK with the core doctrines of the Trinity, salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, the Scriptures, etc. We joined still believing in a non-eternal hell. The interesting thing is that, as we personally studied (the subject of hell has come up directly in church only two or three times in the past seven years, as far as I can remember), our own views have changed. But this doctrine is one about which God will teach you Himself in His time as you study and pray to know truth. If it were me, I would not let these two doctrines that you mention keep me from membership if the church was alive, healthy, Bible-centered, and I and my family were being fed spiritually. Praying that you will know where God wants you to settle, Colleen | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 192 Registered: 1-2006  |
Busymom I have long questioned why God would entrust the gospel to sinners like us (earthy vessels). It would be so much easier if we could stand up in front and say, "See, I quit sinning, and you can, too." I think it's our deep sense that we really are sinners, and I'm not talking about specific sins, but also to the fact that we are fallen, that makes us cautious. First Corinthians 15 tells us that we will be changed at the coming of Christ. Paul tries to explain how very different we will be from the way we are now. I believe this includes character perfection, and those defects in our personalities will be resolved forever at that time, but probably not before that time. I recall the confusion over this question in the churches I attended as a child, and many people were uneasy as they compared the rather confusing teachings of the church to the scriptures. As for the present, 1 John 1:8 tells us that if any man says he is without sin (has a perfect character) he is a liar and the truth is not in him. This applies to us now, today, to you and me. The next verse tells us that if we confess our sins, He will forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness. How long does this take? When does it happen? The best hint that I have found in the Bible as to when character perfection is reached is given in the last verse of Hebrews 11 where we are told that "God planned something better for us so that only together with us would they (the great saints of the Bible) be made perfect." I interpret that to be at the coming of Christ. Meanwhile, Jesus is in fact the fulfillment of God's promise that sin will not reign forever and that our redemption is complete in Him. I hope I'm not too far off from what you were asking. The good news is that God has promised to complete the good work (Phil 1:6) When we get to heaven the song of the redeemed (Rev 15:4) includes the phrase "Thou alone art holy." Apparently we are well aware of our unworthiness for heaven after we get there! The Bible is full of promises about God finishing His work in our lives, and if this discussion progresses along these lines, I'll share some. Anyway, I think it'g great that you have good churhes available. Praise God! I think He will guide you. Bob | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 193 Registered: 1-2006 |
Busymom Wow! Three of us posted at almost the same time! So with your patience, I'll just share a couple of my favorite texts about God finishing His work in our lives. A couple of my favorites are . . . He's the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews) He's promised to finish the good work which He's begun in us (Philippians), Let not your heart be troubled (John) and of course, the promises near the end of Song of Solomon telling us that whatever we lack, God will provide. Praise God! He is with is all the way! Bob | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6007 Registered: 12-2003 |
River, I just saw your post, and I understand your concern. Without knowing the church, Busymom, I don't know whether or not the membership class is a problem or not. I have to admit, though, that the 14-point doctrinal statement seems a bit long to me, also. The church with the four-point statement, however, might also be problematic. I really can't tell based on just the descriptions you give. I failed to mention, however, that in our church, membership didn't depend uppon promising allegiance to the 10-point doctrinal statement--which is a basic statement of evangelical beliefs, by the way. The membership class in our case is for two pruposes: giving a history of the denomination (Evangelical Free church), and discussing the points of faith in the doctrinal statement so if there are any questions about the incarnation, Jesus' death and resurrection, the ascension, the Bible, the Holy Spirit, God's judgment, etc., people can ask them. Membership itself is based on a request to join. One is then interviewed by an elder and asked two questions: If you were to stand before God one day and He were to ask you why you ought to be allowed to spend eternity in heaven, what would you say? The second "question" is a request to tell your story of coming to know Jesus. These two things reveal whether one understands salvation and knows Jesus. The answers to these two things are taken at face value, and membership is granted based on a person's responses. Seldom, I think, is anyone refused unless they overtly do not understand salvation. I have a friend who is a former SDA, and her husband had been a crusty unbeliever for years. It was during the elder's interview when he, who had actually given his life to Jesus a couple years before at an Easter service, admitted that he was a bit unsure of his standing. The elder prayed with him there in the restaurant where they were talking. My friend's husband prayed to receive Jesus as his Savior right there with the elder and his own wife. He is a completely changed man. So, Busymom, caution is necessary. But I would not let fear of these doctrines keep me out. I would pray to know God's will. A Christ-follower must be in fellowship! He shrivels spirtually if he is not. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 845 Registered: 9-2006 |
Good morning Colleen and Bob, One thing you can say about us is that we are spontaneous.  Good scripture Bob. River | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 571 Registered: 3-2001 |
Busymom, I just wanted to address your question about the size of the church. I go to a large (for my area) nondenominational church. Each week, there are approximately 4,000 people in attendance. I do not have issues with not knowing everyone there (or with them not knowing me). I think the secret is to make the church small for yoruself. You do this by getting involved in ministry and by participating in small groups. In those interactions, you will rub shoulders with mature Christians, who will be happy to come along side of you and even answer your questions. If the church is a healthy one, the leadershhip will also make themselves available. I guess I am just saying that a large church does not have to be a deterrent, and in my case, I found it to be a benefit. In my experience, smaller churches generally just do not have the resources to provide some of the things that larger churches can (i.e. great children's programs). I think this is definitely a case where different folks have different needs and comfort levels, so you should choose what works best for you. Doug | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 194 Registered: 1-2006 |
Good morning to you, River, and Colleen, too. I know I'm far from what Busymom was asking here, so I don't say this in reference to her good question, but I'd just like to add that by external measures we can appear to shine up pretty good for a short time. Like the leopard who thinks that through willpower he can change his spots (Jer 13:23), we think that if we work harder and longer that maybe we can be successful at removing all sins and "getting ready." Unfortunately for me, the scriptures don't put much stock in human effort. The last few verses of Colossians 2 make clear that our efforts to clean ourselves up are worthless and accomplish nothing. I hate to leave this discussion right now, but will check back later. Bob | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 195 Registered: 1-2006 |
Colleen I just read your post #6007! What an great question for new members--God asking why we should be in heaven! I bet it has something to do with the Lord Jesus Christ!!! I really must leave now Bob | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 846 Registered: 9-2006 |
Colleen, I like your churches approach, however I was amused with this part"If you were to stand before God one day and He were to ask you why you ought to be allowed to spend eternity in heaven, what would you say? The way I am wired I would fire back forty more at him and it would turn into an all day project to get me signed up. So if I ever decide to join your church please instruct them to send a very patient elder and that he needs to bring his lunch, brown bagging welcome. Also tell him it needs to keep a sharp eye on his lunch. River P.S. God knows better to ask me that question because he knows we only have eternity for the interview. (Message edited by river on June 07, 2007) | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 45 Registered: 4-2004 |
Thanks for all the responses. I sent the pastor an email to ask for clarification. It does not seem from how they are included in the book, that they are for discussion only. The first sentence says: "We believe that the scriptures teach that:" and then lists the fourteen doctrines. Thanks for your insight into attending a large church Doug the Adventist church I attended was less than fifty, so to go to a church of several thousand is a huge change to say the least. Thank you for your prayer Flying Lady. Thank you for your response River, there are nine people in the class and none are from an Adventist background. They are mostly from the Baptist denomination. As Colleen has said before former Adventists can be very nitpicky when looking at new churches and I want to be careful but not too nitpicky. Thanks for the texts Bob J | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 46 Registered: 4-2004 |
I finished the second membership meeting tonight. There was no pressure from anyone re: joining. However, I am very disheartened over the wording of the membership requirements. In the churches bylaws it states that it is required for members to regularly provide financial support to the church. They also state this in their covenant. Now, I do believe that as christians we should do this if we have an income. The sticking point for me is that I am currently not working and am married to an unbeliever(being a stay at home mom is really a full time job). I am at peace that focusing on my kids is where God wants me for now. Anyways, my husband would not want me giving his money regularly to the church. Probably some time in the next three to four years, I will resume working, and then would be sharing any income. Who would have thought that I would wish to find tithing in the bylaws? At least with tithing if you don't have an income you can still be a member. The pastor is currently preaching a series on Galatians. I always have a better understanding of the bible after listening to one of his sermons. They will have adult Sunday School in the fall, small groups that study the Bible, I really feel that I could grow closer to Jesus in this church. My kids would also be able to grow in this church. This last weekend when I was talking to my kids about churches they both asked if we could go back to the SDA church in town. We all had strong relationships in that church, which we did not replicate in the charismatic church. I really feel I need to get them settled in a Bible teaching church. This church would be a good one for them. Anyways, I am working on swallowing my pride. If I can't be a member for several years, it is not the end of the world. What matters is that my kids put down roots in a church that is bible believing and grace oriented. Thanks for letting me vent, and if you have any tips on how not to feel like a second class citizen because of my financial situation feel free to pass them on. Thanks | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6038 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dear Busymom, Have you asked the pastor about this issue? I want to encourage you not to fear talking to him. It may be surprising. I've found that many of these kinds of issues don't have the same "take it or leave it" quality that they had in Adventism. I think you should make a point to see him, explain your situation, and get his feedback. I'm not predicting what he will say, but I do think it's worth your while to see him. It might be very instructive. Praying for you... Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 865 Registered: 9-2006 |
Busymom, I am going to offer some (maybe) advice here, why not put off worrying about joining a church for now. Just go there and see what God has for you, you know they may need to support your spiritual needs for the time being, signing that peace of paper is not going to give you spiritual sustenance and it may be a little too quick to come under any kind of thing where it may make you feel obligation of any sort. Me, I think it is your Adventist background and their requirements that you are still struggling under. Like colleen said, lay your cards on the table, if I was your Pastor there I would say "Look, why don't we lay these things aside for now, you are welcome at our church, come and get your spiritual needs met as we worship, pray and serve our savior together. Now of course this advice is coming from clear across the country from a fellow that knows nothing about the whole situation. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3764 Registered: 3-2004 |
Busymom, I think the advice from Colleen and River is very good. Do not worry about membership. Just go and be fed. Have a talk with the minister. Like River said, this advice is coming from across the country from a lady who knows nothing about your situation. God will take care of you as He has been doing. He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 127 Registered: 10-2006 |
Busy Mom, Just a thought. Tithe is not just about money. It is about your time, your spirit of giving/caring about others. God wants all of us, not just our money. Any church that tends to mandate or pressure money-giving is operating outside scriptural guidelines. The gifts of the Spirit are what we can give return on, and that is by Divine design and personal not corporate. Steve | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 47 Registered: 4-2004 |
Thank you all for your encouragement. I did talk to the pastor. His response was that in my situation grace would certainly be extended. What is in the bylaws is meant to apply to a situation where a married couple are both believers. He did say that as I continue to attend we should dialogue further. If my husband sees the benefit of the church to our family he may decide to be supportive of the church. It would definitely be interesting if he ever approaches my husband ( my husband has stated that all pastors remind him of used car salesmen). I thought it was interesting that their leadershp committee never makes a decision without everyone being unaminous, if there is any disagreement everyone will spend time in prayer until agreement is reached. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 6054 Registered: 12-2003 |
Interesting, isn't it? The grace and spiritual understanding at work in a true Christ-following pastor is an amazing thing to experience. Sometimes I still feel overwhelmed at the blessing of being under the shepherding protection of a true Christ-following pastor who actually cares for the sheep God has entrusted to him. Colleen | ||
| Alnadean Registered user Username: Alnadean Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2005 |
Hi all... Wow, I haven't been around to read these posts for a while, but I took the time tonight to go through a few, and I do have to pause to comment a little on this. I know I have to choose my words carefully, because I am aware that I have not completely thawed from my adventist experience, and I resent and resist a lot of what I consider 'foolishness' (really praying that the Lord will hasten this apathy that I feel...or should he? When I hear things like membership classes, and study classes I bristle...really bristle...and we all feel differently, this is just me. I do feel that the church has its place in our lives- as per the Bible, and we are members of the body with different functions etc, but I have real issues with even the thought of becoming a member much less the fact that I have to attend a class to see if I am fit! Oh my...that does not at all fit well with me. In all fairness, I do believe that it is where I am at the moment...and at times I wonder if I will ever get past it... I have to say that I do not believe that if I never (pardon the double negatives) set foot in another church that my salvation is in jeapoardy...there are many people who are not able to physically go to church- what of them? No, I do not believe it is the mandatory required avenue for spiritual growth...focussing on the word and spending time with God does that for me. Then there's the infamous 'Bible Study' Is a study of the Bible important? Absolutely! I study mine...why I should attend a Bible study class is beyond me, when its the same Holy Spirit that is teaching everybody...again others may differ, but I do not want anyone putting any thoughts in my head about any kind of beliefs in a church setting...can we all just praise God already, because that's the reason I go to church. Now for the hottest issue for me tonight is the issue of tithing...and I want to think that i read it wrong, but did a pastor just extend 'grace' because of your 'situation' busymom??? GRACE YOU SAY??? this is very interesting...now I applaud you for expalining your 'situation' to the pastor, but not in a hundred years would I ever do that- perhaps I am more objective from the outside, but does this not sound ludicrist to anyone else (the fact that the pastor extends grace) Isn't tithe paying tantamount to exhortion??Since when is it mandatory...I thought that was just the adventist church....no wait...I have visited a baptist church and by the way what a service- totally blessed, but when I see a whole sheet attached to the program about tithing(every week), stressing that even the housewives need to tithe, I knew I would never be a member (I'm not a housewife- not a wife either)...that just told me that some lack of faith and some exploitation was taking place, because I do feel that if you feel the need to make it mandatory you might as well keep the sabbath. I would suggest the pastor not approach me, because I would have to tell him exactly where their church is going wrong. I wish I wanted to become a member...I wish I wanted to be part of some grand institution...I wish I wanted to serve in some ministries, but unfortunately it's a been there done that situation, and the fact is all these 'requirements' just make me very sad, and incidentally, if I have to walk up in front of the church to give an offering- they ain't getting any! I'm just sick and tired of being sick and tired and I'm just over all these unnecessary requirements, snd I'd just like to shout from the mountaintop to everybody that they should all quit it already and follow the simplicity of the Bible. Sigh! Al-Nadean Hopefully I didn't offend anyone, but if I did a modicum of that 'grace' so freely given would be appreciated (could not resist that) | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 703 Registered: 7-2004  |
I have had some very interesting discussions with pastors on the subject of tithe. We crossed churches off of our list that considered tithing a requirement for membership or for leadership positions. We were convinced that was too legalistic regardless of what else they taught. But I won't judge anyone for concluding otherwise in their life. I have issues with those who wish to conduct extensive teaching before baptism, but I think that solid instruction in the doctrines of the church are an important aspect for members. Too many people do not understand what the church they are supporting actually teaches. We see this with SDAs who have only a cursory understanding of the church doctrines, and we see it in other churches too. I think that we should examine whatever we are taught closely, perhaps our thinking needs challenged further or perhaps the teaching is departing from Scripture. Church is about more than just offering praise. look at the early believers in Acts 2:42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. A church where one is being nourished by the Word of God, through solid preaching and teaching for the Bible and where one is being encouraged and lifted up by their brothers and sisters is a wonderful blessing. On the other hand, a bad church is probably worse than no church at all. I was highly frustrated at times during our search for a church home, and still get frustrated that our church isn't perfect. But the blessings of a good, supportive church are worth the time spent continuing to look. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3777 Registered: 3-2004 |
To join my church one has to go through a 6 week study of the Bible and what the church believes. It is all from the Bible. For me that was good because it confirmed what I had learned from the Bible(which I had started reading in Jan 2004) and from here on FAF(which I had joined in March 2004). So for me it was worth it. For a while I thought God was telling me to go some where else, but He was just pushing me to get more involved with my church. I have done that and will keep at it until God tells me to go some where else. Diana | ||
| Larry Registered user Username: Larry Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2007 |
Diana, Your commitment to God and online prayers just about bring me to tears every time I see them. Keep up the good work! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3781 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thank you Larry, That is God's work, not mine. Every so often, on CARM, we give each other reputation points for what a person says, how they say it and how pertinent it is to the conversation. When I receive a reputation point, I go back and read what I wrote. I am amazed by what I write, because it is not me. It is God working through me. To Him goes all the Honor and Glory. He is always awesome. Diana | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2007 |
Maybe I'm an oddball, but I see two things in this thread, not one. We all need a place to fellowship. I do not feel obligated to study all the doctrines, or make a membership commitment, in order to fellowship. I fellowship with Christians outside of my own Church often and in different ways. I've mentioned before that in my job I work with about 20 different local churches, coordinating volunteers for a non-profit food program. I find myself attending worship services and Sunday Schools of all different denominations. It has helped me see my fellow Christians as just that, brothers and sisters. Another thing, is I often see people here struggling with leaving Adventism, lots of baggage in doing that, and lots of time is often necessary to feel comfortable and find a good safe place to settle. Adventism doesn't encourage attending their church long term as 'just' a visitor. There's something 'wrong' with a visitor content to remain that way. I think sometimes as we are leaving, we feel a pressure to JOIN something, anything, but JOIN. So we can feel normal again. (just remembering my feelings). My own church, and most of those I find myself visiting, don't seem to pressure people into making membership decisions. Membership is something more, its commitment. Thats the time to really study and go slow. When I first left Adventism, I joined my Church based on my childhood experiences. Warm memories of my parochial school parish, and the religious instuction I recived there, were enough to shake me out of Adventism, but not enough to sustain an adult faith, and I eventually wandered away. I didn't realize how a lot of false ideas about the nature of God and our relationship to him had crept in from Adventism. Changing religious affiliation is wrenching emotionally. God is good, he will watch over us, but we still have to work through our mistakes, thats just the consequence of living in a sinful world, imho. When you find a congregation you want to make that membership commitment too, you'll know it. I just don't think there's any need to rush. I took a year, after Jesus called me back to him, to work through all my questions and objections before making the decision to recommit to my faith in a public way and seek full communion again. MarysRoses | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2007 |
I think I missed what I intended to be my point! Fellowship where you feel fed, not worrying too much about the details, then take your time and go slow before making a membership decision... just my two cents . | ||
| Busymom Registered user Username: Busymom Post Number: 48 Registered: 4-2004 |
Hi Al-Nadean, yes it definitely crossed my mind that it was ludicrist to explain my situation to the pastor. If I didn't have two young children, I definitely would not be attending this church. The first church I went to after leaving Adventism, had no membership requirements or financial obigation, you were considered a member if you simply showed up on Sunday to worship there. However, after a year of attending there my kids were bored, there was nothing age specific for them, no VBS etc., also there was no ministry for me to be involved in. The sermon this Sunday at the new church was on Galatians 3:26-29. The pastor made the point of stating that in Jesus there is no upper class, lower class, wealthy or poor, we are all the same in Jesus' eyes. He said the church is to be our family and living out Jesus' instructions is not an easy thing to do. Anyways, I needed to hear this sermon, as it was not easy for me to talk to the Pastor. One of the church members shared his experience at a recent ten day prayer conference. (There were many different people there, charismatics, episcopalians, catholic priest, evangelicals there) The participants were impressed to pray for hurting people. One woman shared how she had been unable to forgive someone for a terrible thing that happened to her son. She was a white episcopalian a black charismatic woman was able to share how God helped her through years of an abusive relationship and help this woman forgive. Anyways, the woman who struggled with unforgiveness realized her stomach problems were healed after she experienced forgiveness. When she went home and had tests done, she had been healed of her cancer. Anyways, even though it isn't easy, I know for myself, that the only way for me to grow as a christian is if I am fellowshipping with other christians. Obviously, God can bless you if you can't get to church for health or other reasons. But, I do think there are blessings in fellowship |
