| Author | Message | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 564 Registered: 3-2001 |
What then do we make of the "Little Debbies" of Adventist fame? | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 840 Registered: 10-2002  |
Little Debbie ate too much of her food, put on too much weight on veggie-links and ended up with a heart attack. One of her friends went to Japan and no longer ate Debbie's cooking. There he saw people eating octopus, sea urchin, eel, raw fish, the less-poisonous parts of the blowfish, drinking "sake" and guzzling beer, even smoking into old age, and generally living easily into their 90s and often into their 100s. Although he doesn't eat the weird stuff regularly, he has gotten addicted -- addicted to having foods *balanced* and with a lot of vegetables. He likes eel sushi. The Japanese "health message" sounds healthier than the Adventist one. (Message edited by agapetos on June 02, 2007) | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 181 Registered: 1-2006  |
Agapetos Great Bible texts you shared above. Thank You! | ||
| Bigal Registered user Username: Bigal Post Number: 64 Registered: 9-2006  |
I know I have not posted in a while, but this thread is perfect for what I experianeced today. I attended a Baptism of a 12 year old child of one of my friends. It took place in the creek right beside the "Campmeeting tent." I thought I would be okay with attending this gathering. It has been a couple of years now that I have not attended any kind of SDA cerimony. I wanted to support the family and thier daughter for chosing Jesus. I actually felt physically sick as the pastor read the baptisimal vows. Some are good but as they go on they divert into vowing to believe in EGW and SDA being the "remanent" church. I wanted the pastor to ask if any one in the audiance had any objections (like they use to do at weddings). I would not have said anything, but I played that fantasy in my head. Out of the 8 that were baptised only 2 were not SDA or former SDA. These 2 were from another denomination. A poor showing for the local SDA camp meeting, if you ask me. Dennis, I also get to smell the sweet smell of the Mckee food co here in Gentry, AR. That is when the wind blows from the north. Okay venting done, now I will go back into lurking mode. Alan | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1843 Registered: 10-2004  |
Ramone, isn't it funny when vegetarian Adventists try to "get around" the texts in the NT about all foods being clean and acceptable to eat, by saying, "oh, that's talking about clean meats offered to idols!"??! I would love to respond by saying: "Ok, well here's some beef that was offered to an idol--let's eat!"  Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on June 02, 2007) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5977 Registered: 12-2003  |
Ramone quoted: ""Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink... such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence." (Colossians 2:16-23)" Isn't it interesting that Ellen counseled against meat, dairy, and stimulants because to eat them would excite the animal passions? Such a DIRECT contradiction of Scripture! Again, here's a text that's explained away. It means unclean meat, y'know! (And in these last days, when meat is so diseased it's unfit for food, this Colossians passage no longer applies.) Sigh. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3729 Registered: 3-2004  |
I have read all that was written and as I think about it, I can only say, Hallelujah, I am no longer part of it. My pastor talks of God and what God wants for us. I no longer have to worry that what I eat will keep me out of heaven. Oh, by the way Big Al, I am in Little Rock right now with my son, DIL and grandson. Have a great day worshipping God today and every day. He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 841 Registered: 10-2002 |
With all the talk about "food", I thought I'd share that tonight we ate at an Okinawan restaurant and I had this wonderful thing of roasted or barbecued pork over rice. Ironically, it tasted the exact same as when I was younger and we feasted on some ribs once. I remember we ate rib after rib after rib and it was sooo delicious. We never found that place again. I think we probably were eating pork without knowing it. Irony! On the Okinawan note, it reminds me of when Yoko and I were talking with one of my SDA relatives. Somehow we got on the topic of living in tropical areas (nice weather seems healthier!) and we started talking about Okinawa, the southern island chain between Japan and China. Yoko mentioned that there are a lot of people there who live to be very old -- I think it has one of the highest concentrations of people over 100 in the world maybe? We were wondering why, and Yoko mentioned that it was probably because Okinawans eat a lot of pork, because pork was healthy and helped them live longer, etc.! My relative deadpanned and made no comment, and I quietly rolled over laughing inside. I love my family, but it was just funny.  | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 120 Registered: 10-2006 |
One reason I left Adventism is I've always been blessed with a hypersensitive "BS" detector. When I would hear sermons like this, my detector would scream at me, and I had to go outside and pray for the Lord to calm me down. God, true to His form, literally pulled me out of that church, walked me up and down the sidewalk, and taught me how to pray Adventism right out of my life! He has taught me to praise and thank Him when He tugs me in a new and uncertain direction. He has taught me to trust in Him. steve | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 182 Registered: 1-2006 |
Stevendi, Thank the Lord! Praise God that we can trust him, that is patient with us, and that, as you say, he teaches us to trust. One of the great things about following the Lord is that the true sheep know the true Shepherd's voice, and follow him wherever he goes. I think your comment is right on--that God will help us detect baloney, that God does help us, and that he never leaves us alone. Ramone, Great story about Yoko's comment to your relatives! Bob | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 121 Registered: 10-2006 |
Bob, Thanks for the feedback. By the way, I wasn't referring to baloney (but of course you knew that). The point you and I share is that God saw that Adventism was an aberrant religion that defined God in terms of its own self-protecting needs rather than defining church body needs in terms of God's protecting His domain, His holy and sovereign and benevolent Being. steve (Message edited by stevendi on June 03, 2007) | ||
| Brian4 Registered user Username: Brian4 Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2006 |
1 Timothy 4 1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 6If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. 7But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. ________________________________________________ I would like to put the breathren in remberence of these things. Most folk who want to eat anything at all will read up to vs. 4 and stop. They will say see there I can eat anything. However vs.5 is proof enough for me that what God created for for food is santified by the word of God and prayer. I would ask you to prayerfully consider what you put in yoyr mouth. Also refer to Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. I do not want to be eating or doing ang thing God's word calls an abomination. How about you? | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1845 Registered: 10-2004 |
Brian4, Yes, verse 5 does say: "for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer." (NASB.) But verse 4 is the word of God. Verse 1 says, "the Spirit [GOD] explicitly says..."! And verse 4 explicitly tells us that "everything created by God is good"! Mark 7:18-19 is the word of Jesus [God]. Genesis 9:3 is the word of God. If you are going to apply Isaiah 66:17 literally, then every Christian who eats pork will be eternally lost. That would be salvation by works (what we eat/what we abstain from). Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on June 03, 2007) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 820 Registered: 9-2006  |
Well if you want to quote Isaih then put it into context, you are proof texting, this was about disregard for the Lord, not about pigs. Their soul did not delight in God but instead doing their own thing. Adventism is all about proof texting to make it fit their falsehoods. This is not spiritual discernment. You don’t want to eat bacon then don’t eat it. As for me I am not going to pick through the garbage of Adventism trying to find a bite of Spiritual sustenance. Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. Romans 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Romans 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. If you want to proof text, there is you one to proof text, if in doubt don’t eat brother, eat what you can eat in faith. Just don’t proof text me to death and I won’t eat bacon in front of you. Deal? | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 183 Registered: 1-2006 |
Since we're fussing a bit here already, this might be a good place to mention something that really bothers me a lot. I recently visited at the deathbed of a long-time friend, who, like me, grew up in Adventism. We had a pleasant but short conversation as he wasn’t feeling too good, and we both know it would be our last visit. It’s been a long time since I attended the little country church where we knew each other as kids, and during those years the Lord helped me to gradually trust Him more and more until finally He led me (I never would have expected this) right out of Adventism. During the final visit, there were about 12 or 13 people in the hospital room—never before have I seen so many friends packed into a hospital room at the same time, and with the exception of me, all of them were SDAs. Since I had traveled far to see him they gave me a chance to visit with him and to pray with him. In the prayer I mentioned how thankful we were that we could trust fully in the Lord Jesus Christ even when facing difficult circumstances. At the end of my visit, in the presence of all these Adventist friends and family members, I said, “Praise God, we will be with the Lord forever.” I do this often enough to know what to expect next. Having this kind of confidence in the Lord sounds like absolute heresy to Adventist ears, and immediately he and his wife and one of their kids answered, “We hope so.” I don’t criticize my dying friend or his family for not being able to express faith in the Lord, or maybe just partial faith, but it hurt me deeply. They are living in fear of not being ready for heaven. I know how it feels. Since I have a LOT of close contact with Adventists, especially those who are facing their sunset years, I have made it a habit to just go ahead and voice the gospel. I mention my confidence in the Lord. I know it’s sneaky, but during my conversations with them I’ll say, “You know, one of my favorite texts is when God Himself gives His testimony about Jesus. 1 John 5:10-12 says that God has given us life, and that this life is in His Son. I just praise God for the Lord Jesus Christ, and that we can know with confidence that we will be with the Lord forever because of what He has already done for us. Praise God that we can rest in Him, trust Him fully, and that our salvation is a done deal.” Sometimes I mention King David, who several times wrote comments similar to ‘Let the redeemed of the Lord say so’ –not a direct quote, but you get the idea. David clearly believed that we could know that we’re saved, and should not hesitate to say so. Sometimes people argue. I used to ask them to share with me their testimony. I stopped doing it. If you want to know why I stopped asking them to share about the Lord, try asking them for yourself. I wish I could make them know what it is to trust in the Lord totally, completely, enough that they could actually have confidence that the Lord’s sacrifice was sufficient, and that they can’t do anything to add to His finished work on their behalf. I know all the Adventist arguments. I’ve heard them all my life. I’ve lived for 50 plus years in the shadow of Andrews University, La Sierra University, and Loma Linda University. I know whereof I speak. Every argument comes back to less than perfect trust in the Lord. What must the Lord think as we ignore this great salvation and pretend that we can somehow add to what He has already done? I write this in love. In no way do I want to diminish the faith of another person. But it scares me when my friends are not able to ‘know that they can know’ that what Jesus did really is enough, and that they can rest in His rest. I ask your prayers as I work among these dear people, that in everything I do and say, God’s name will be glorified, and that Jesus will be uplifted and that He will draw them to Himself. Bob | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5981 Registered: 12-2003 |
Bob, I so understand what you are describing. It is actually a fearful thing to realize that so many do not really trust the Lord Jesus in spite of His plain words of eternal assurance for those who believe. A friend of mine from our Friday Bible study made an insightful observation this weekend. We are studying Romans 12:3-5 right now, and we were exploring the "body of Christ" and the fact that Jesus is the head and we who are born again are the rest of the body. She pointed out that if we, the body, say we're not sure we will be saved, then we are saying by implication that we're not sure Jesus is saved, either. The Head, after all, IS attached to and inseparable from the body. For any of us to say we're not sure we can be saved is like saying we suspect that an arm or a toe or a hand--or the Head--might not make it while the rest goes on to heaven. Such an idea is absurd. The Body of Christ is the body of Christ--and HE is inseparabley attached to it. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1089 Registered: 4-2000  |
Good thoughts, Bob and Colleen! A devout, elderly SDA man told my wife some months ago, "If I make it to heaven, I'd be surprised." Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on June 03, 2007) | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 402 Registered: 12-2004 |
This is not a vent post, but rather an observation. It is sad(indeed tragic) that we were all brought up with the understanding that we could NOT be sure of our salvation. I think that it has been criminal, that millions of our dear Adventist brothers and sisters have gone to their graves, without truly feeling that BLESSED ASSURANCE due to faulty theology. I think it is incumbent on the present Adventist leadership to renounce this teaching that is so counter to the clarity of Scripture. This is one area that I think we as Former Adventists, have been given an opportunity to provide clear and unequivical Scripture in support of the Assurance of Salvation. I understand that for most of our Adventist loved ones, this is a difficult realization. However once they are convinced of the validity of Scripture on this point, there can be no greater joy. Once they understand this concept, only then will they start to question why they have been taught otherwise all these years. This is a seed really of JOY, that can allow the Holy Spirit to lead each, then into a deeper questioning about what other pieces of the Christian life they have not understood. It will also, in a non-confrontatioal way allow them to question the source of the misinformation. I believe that once the freedom and joy that accompanies Assurance is recognized, only then will the Adventist feel free to accept that all is not right in the "Remnant Church". Blessings to each of you, Randy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1846 Registered: 10-2004 |
Colleen, I love what Spurgeon says that is related to what you said:
Jeremy | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 184 Registered: 1-2006 |
Jeremy You are amazing! Thank you for sharing Spurgeon's quote! It's right on target. I appreciate the effort you go to in providing such solid resources for the discussions on this forum. Gracias amigo! Bob |
