| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1763 Registered: 10-2004  |
The SDA "Jesus" is a demon. I came to this realization more fully a couple of weeks ago. The conclusion is inescapable and it is beyond me how anyone can claim that the SDAs don't have a different Jesus. Ellen G. White claimed that her "Jesus" appeared to her (numerous times, including over 100 personal visits from "Jesus" accompanied by occultic phenomenon). She also claimed that Jesus is an angel (numerous quotes). And we know that Jesus is not an angel, so her "Jesus" is obviously a false Jesus. That means that the angel that appeared to her claiming to be "Jesus" is really a demon (fallen angel). In the following quote, she even seems to indicate that her "Jesus" appeared to her as an angel with wings:
She even said that "Jesus" was an angel after he came to earth:
Also, we know that the "Jesus" that appeared to EGW was a false Jesus because he told her false things, and his appearances were accompanied by classic occultic phenomenon, such as the fragrance of flowers and light circling around in the room. The following is from Arthur White's biography of Ellen:
And here are a few more examples:
EGW never denied or rejected this false Jesus. This false "Jesus" that appeared to her is the one who she believed in and taught in her writings. In fact, even in her last dying words she refused to give up this false jesus, but affirmed that she still believed in the same "Jesus" that had appeared to her her entire life:
So, Ellen's "jesus" that appeared to her her entire life was obviously a false "jesus"--a demon. (And even if she had made up all the "appearances" or hallucinated them--her "Jesus" would still be a false jesus.) In conclusion, EGW's "Jesus" is in reality a demon. And the SDA church believes in, and teaches, the "Jesus" that EGW wrote about. Therefore, the SDA "Jesus" is a false jesus and is actually a demon. Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1764 Registered: 10-2004 |
By the way, Ellen's occultic encounters with her false "Jesus," who was actually a demon (or satan himself) began with a dream when she was 14 years old. She says that her "guide" (which is a strictly occultic term, by the way) led her to a secret room/chamber (see Matthew 24:26) on earth where "Jesus" was hiding:
I thought the "green cord" stuff sounded suspicious (occultic). And sure enough, if you do a Google search, you will find that a "green cord" is used in occult/witchcraft practices!!!! (And it also apparently has a connection to the Bahai religion.) In one Wiccan community that I read about, the "green cord" has to do with reaching the "second degree" level. Very creepy. EGW is not harmless. She was a witch, and worshipped a demonic "jesus," from at least the age of 14 years old. Jeremy P.S. Colleen recently sent me an email attachment that a woman who has recently left the SDA cult sent to Dale Ratzlaff (who then sent it to Colleen), which addresses some of these things and other similar things, that I had already been researching myself, independently (which is pretty amazing!)--regarding EGW and the SDA church's relationship with the occult and Freemasonry. If anyone would like to see this incredible document, send me an email at: whitemountainchat@yahoo.com (Message edited by Jeremy on April 28, 2007) (Message edited by Jeremy on April 28, 2007) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1765 Registered: 10-2004 |
I want to also mention something else related to this. A relative of mine (SDA) has a demon that visits him that calls himself "Jesus." This relative believes that he is on such a level with God that he "does not need the Bible." This is what this Adventist "Jesus" has made him think, apparently. He even had an experience very similar to the one Ellen describes above in her dream--where this "Jesus" put his hand on him. He really believes that it is "Jesus" that visits him. Please pray for this relative of mine, that he will be set free by the true Jesus Christ!! Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1766 Registered: 10-2004 |
Also, keep in mind what God's Word says:
Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5752 Registered: 12-2003  |
I remember reading that vision of Ellen's when I was quite young. I think it was in one of our Bible books in school. I know how shocking it sounds to conclude that Ellen was consorting with "the other side". I couldn't take that in at first. The fact is, though, that her writings and visions are full of references to symbols , phrases, and practices which are common in occultic and Masonic writings and practices. I want to reiterate what I have said before: this sort of thing should not shock us over-much. We are ALL born into the domain of darkness, following the ways of the "ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts" (Ephesians 2:2-3). Everyone—that is EVERYONE—is born spiritually dead and is by nature responsive to evil. We in this fellowship just "happened" to become involved in Adventism which has its own dark spiritual legacy. The good news is that Jesus defeated the spirit of Ellen and her co-founders at the cross, and he has called us to Himself, transferring us to His kingdom (see Colossians 3:13). The biggest problem I had as I learned the true nature of Ellen's "inspiration" and the true nature of Adventism was a profound feeling of, first, denial, and secondly of embarassment/shame. I felt so STUPID for having been taken in my such a deception. The fact is, though, that EVERYONE is taken in by deception before they are rescued by Jesus. Why should I think myself any different? And why should I think my personal Adventist deception is somehow more shameful than other people's brands of deception? In my case, the fact that I was assiduously taught in school that Mormons and JW's were cults, but WE had a TRUE prophet of God and were not a cult but the One True Church added to my initial inability to take in the reality of Ellen. I have been told numerous times that I am over the top in my assesment of Ellen, that "even Dale Ratzlaff" doesn't see Adventism this way. Let me assure you, even Dale Ratzlaff says there is a sinister spirit behind Adventism. We are in agreement about this. To be sure, there is a dark legacy in Adventism, and we must be willing to know this truth and give this legacy to God, asking Him to remove it from our hearts and replace it with His Spirit. But we need to rejoice! Jesus Himself has brought us to life by His resurrection life. He has seated us with Him at the right hand of the Father, and nothing can separate us from His love! Coming out of Adventism is no more shameful than coming out of murdering Chrirstians as Paul did—or than coming out of rebellious unbelief. With Paul we can praise God that He has given us life, His righteousness, and has cleansed us by the blood of Jesus. Praise Him! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3593 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jeremy, Thank you for all your research on EGW and all the things you have found. That is all the more reason I will continue to call her a false prophet. All we need is Jesus. He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 780 Registered: 10-2002  |
Jeremy, thanks for clearly spelling all this out with the quotes. Even if modern Adventists ran into someone with Ellen White's symptoms ("new" unbiblical teachings, judgment of those who refused them, and receiving these things from "angels"), they would pray for her deliverance. Because her visions are safely tucked away in books and in SDA "heritage", the absolute strangeness of them does not strike them instantly. But if they were to meet anyone with such 'heavenly contacts' today, most would quickly determine that the person was in contact with a different spirit, not the Holy Spirit. Adventism has been battling with trying to hold onto Ellen White and Protestantism, with the tension between her idea of Jesus and the Protestant understanding of Jesus. For that reason I couldn't say that "the Adventist Jesus" is a demon, because a lot of Adventists worship Jesus (although usually through a veil). But as for Ellen White's "Jesus", it was clearly not Him. Thankfully, I don't know so many Adventists who have made contact with her "Jesus". The oppressiveness of her teachings has been sufficient enough so that "he" hasn't needed to make many appearances, it seems. Thankfully, the appearances of that "Jesus" are rare, but each time it is sad and gut-wrenching when someone does make contact and fall into the trap... it hurts. I'm praying for your friend, Jeremy. Anytime the Bible is rejected and the truths about Jesus are rejected, a false one may answer back. But thankfully, the real Jesus is so much stronger than the "Jesus" who deceived Ellen and the early Adventists. Whenever an Adventist (or a Mormon, or a JW, etc.) opens the Bible and prays "to Jesus", there is always a great danger (to the enemy) that the real Jesus will answer back!! In contrast, Ellen White believed that when sincere Protestants prayed to Jesus, they were praying to Satan disguised as Jesus, that he received their prayers. But we know that when sincere Adventists pray to Jesus, He can receive their prayers (instead of the demon) even if He won't answer them according to what they think about Him through the distortion of the Adventist veil. The real God is so much stronger! Lord, hear their prayers and give them more than they ask for, just as You gave me more than I asked for when I prayed to You, Jesus! Lord, specifically be with Jeremy's friend and break the cultic, demonic veil. Break through, Lord, because there is nothing we can do. We need Your power, his friend needs You to break through, even though his friend doesn't know it. Show Yourself mighty, Lord, in Jesus' name, amen. (Message edited by agapetos on April 29, 2007) | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 910 Registered: 8-2004  |
Wow, thanks for sharing this research Jeremy! I remember puzzling over being taught from Matthew 24 that we were not to go out to find Jesus anywhere here on earth (because His coming would be seen from one end of the sky to the other) and that one of the 'signs that it is the real Jesus' would be that He did not touch the ground (which I think is an Ellenism), and then reading about Jesus visiting Ellen. This left me as a child believing that Ellen was somehow in a different category than us 'mere mortals'. It is humbling to admit how wrong I was to believe she was a messenger of God. And to come to know how wrong I was about God Himself . . but it is freeing too. It is great joy to walk with God with no one in between, to trust Him and find my trust is not misplaced, to continually come to know Him better and to have my misapprehensions and misunderstandings corrected on His time schedule and to KNOW that I am safe in His care, not because of anything I have done, but because of His free grace. Your research is interesting from a second angle as well. One SDA I once knew well, became highly irate when I questioned left SDAism, and vehemently affirmed that we now worshiped different gods. I did not believe it and it's been very painful to finally take him at his word. I thank God for awakening me, drawing me to Himself, and keeping me in His strong protection!! What an awesome God we serve. Blessings, Mary | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5759 Registered: 12-2003 |
The fact about the true nature of Ellen's "inspiration" and allegiance is the reason Adventists MUST renounce her. It's not enough to brush her aside and say, "Oh, I don't believe in her," or "I don't really believe she's a prophet." In fact, she WAS a prophet—a false prophet. As long as we hold any cultural, "family" loyalty to her, whether or not we take her seriously, we are literally holding onto a person who had contact with demonic powers and represented them as Jesus. How can we expect to understand the gospel, to embrace the complete finished work and the Person of Jesus fully as long as we have a divided heart? We have to let ALL loyalty go besides loyalty to Jesus alone. We can't have both Jesus and Ellen and experience the freedom and peace of Jesus. To attempt to keep both is to make our hearts/spirits spiritual battlefields. We welcome deception if we insist on defending Ellen at some level. Jesus is ALL we need—and He knows how to give us the courage and strength and the conviction of His Spirit to leave behind the demonic influence of the false prophet most of us here once honored. Praise Jesus! Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 701 Registered: 9-2006  |
Heh Heh, Jeremy, I was wondering what kind of response you would get!  Ramone, how does one worship Jesus through the veil? How can one see Jesus and remain behind the veil? I have got to hear the answer to that one. Once there was an Adventist who stood behind the veil' I said "Sir, Jesus you do not see?" He said "Ellen saw him and that is enough for me!"' River P.S While it is true that we cannot see Jesus at present in his physical being and he has not invited me to feel the nail scars in his hands and thrust my hand into his scars in his side, he touched the wounds on my soul and he healed them. Through his word we can view calvary and his amazing grace. In a sense we must see him to know him and he shows himself to us and there must not be any veil of separation, not Ellen, not Adventism nor any other ism, he will not share his glory with the likes of men. | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 781 Registered: 10-2002 |
Bro River, I can't answer your question except to say that I--and probably the bulk of formers here--did in fact worship Jesus before we had the veil removed. We couldn't see clearly, but in some part we knew Him, and He knew us, and we heard Him calling us to Him through the veil, and He brought us out of the veil. I was baptized not knowing Him clearly, but He received my baptism, my prayers, etc. He revealed Himself to me while I was still an Adventist, and He spoke to me while I was an Adventist missionary. That year he also spoke to the lady who would become my wife. When I returned from my year of missions, I started to go deeper into Ellen's "prophecies" and as a result of that search, He showed me His Holy Spirit (and He led me out of Ellen's veil completely). How is this possible? Does this fit our mathematics of what is possible and what isn't? We need to habitually guard ourselves against becoming too theoretical about what is possible and what is not, because we are dealing with God here. Clinically we might say such and such is impossible if this or that, but reality continually thwarts our mathematics---God continually thwarts what we think is impossible. Don't give the enemy too much credit. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 704 Registered: 9-2006 |
Just pulling your leg a little bit Ramone, to see if you were still awake! Who woke up first this morning, you or the baby? I remember the days when we had to wash out smelly diapers by hand! Ugh. We had to put them in a bucket till they built up to seven or a dozen then wash them! Now they got pampers, the greatest invention of mankind I do believe. River | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1768 Registered: 10-2004 |
River wrote: "Jeremy, I was wondering what kind of response you would get!" Haha, River, that makes two of us! I did not "want" to post this, believe me! Ramone, you wrote:
I'm not so sure about that, Ramone. I mean look at Soo and her angel visits. And mainstream Adventism is accepting her! I would like to ask, though, how can the SDA "Jesus" NOT be EGW's "Jesus"? They proudly declare that they believe in the "Jesus" that Ellen taught and wrote about, and that appeared to Ellen. They even believe the heretical things she wrote about her "Jesus" rather than what the Bible teaches. How can we say that the SDA "Jesus" is not EGW's "Jesus" anymore than we can claim that the LDS "Jesus" is not Joseph Smith's "Jesus"? And just because there happen to be some true Christians within SDA or LDS, does not negate that fact. I agree with you, though, that an Adventist or Mormon or JW can seek the Jesus of the Bible--instead of the SDA, LDS, or JW "Jesus." Even when I was SDA growing up (and my sister had the same experience), I seemed to sense that there was a false "Jesus" that I needed to avoid--sometimes I would make sure to pray to "the true Jesus" (and would add various things to that to make sure I was addressing the Jesus of the Bible). In fact, when I listened to the "Dialogue on the Doorstep with a Mormon" audio file on the mmoutreach.org site, with Walter Martin and Ed Decker (former Mormon who was pretending to be the Mormon), and at the end he re-enacted the prayer that he had actually prayed, seeking the true Jesus of the Bible that died on Calvary--it brought tears to my eyes because it was so similar to my own experiences. Regarding the veil, we can't necessarily rely on our "mathematics," but we can believe God's Word, which says, "if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing," (2 Corinthians 4:3b NASB). Jeremy | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 529 Registered: 6-2006  |
Jeremy, thanks for this study. I don't know how you keep from going bonkers reading and researching that stuff. I always appreciate your posts. Are you still working on that web site? Is it up yet? Leigh Anne | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 434 Registered: 10-2001 |
Jeremy, You are right, the whole cult is demonic. I'm starting to believe that Jesus guarded us that survived, and some just weren't His to guard. I know that Jesus was always there with me, as a small child I knew there was something just not right. He sent me neighbors that were Baptist and I wish I could tell them now what a witness they were to me at only 7 or 8 years old. They were happy and we were not. They debated once with my mother and I could tell they were right, but tucked it away somewhere. There was evil around me growing up, I knew it. Satan tried to kill me a few times, I would hear voices telling me to stab myself and fall on knives, weird stuff. I fell out of a tree and wasn't even scratched, almost was hit by a car a couple of times, almost drowned once........Jesus was always there. That is why I know on God's time table--which isn't time at all, I was always saved, even though I didn't make the decision until I was 32, He knew that day would come and He protected me from all of that evil. What a great Abba. Sabra | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3601 Registered: 3-2004 |
Jesus protected me all my life. I had polio at the age of twelve and have no after effects. When I was pregnant with my son, a week before he was to be born, I was driving into Montreal to go to prayer meeting. I was merging onto a freeway. As I looked to my left I saw a huge truck and trailer. I looked to my right and there was a big pick up truck. I remember thinking that I was not going to make it if I went either way and that I would get squeezed between them. Before I thought anything else, I was at the right side of the road, my car still going and the big truck and pick up were ahead of me on the highway. All I can say is my angel picked up my car and moved it. God did protect me. He is always awesome. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5761 Registered: 12-2003 |
Praise God, Diana. You know, one the the hallmarks of Adventism that reveals its true spiritual identity is the fear. I lived in so much fear: fear of death, fear of not measuring up, fear about my health, fear that lI hadn't done my best, fear of literally being guilty for whatever negative emotion surged in the people around me, etc. etc. And all the fear was somehow related to "spirituality": either I wasn't good enough, or I didn't have enough faith, or I was resistant to God's promptings, or I cherished secret or compulsive "sin" (like coffee drinking), etc. Jesus has really taken away my continual companion of fear. He has given me life and hope, and it is amazing and such a contrast to the past! Jesus said He came to bring freedom to those who lived in fear of death. That's where I was! Praise God! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3602 Registered: 3-2004 |
Looking back on my SDA experience, I was not happy. I thought, at the time, it was because of my dysfunctional family and that was part of it. But deeper down in my soul, my spirit was unhappy and now I know why. I needed Jesus. Now, I am happy all the time, even with my dysfunctional background. Friends at work tell me I bring a "Peace" with me when I am at work. I smile all the time and it is just not my face muscles. It is in my eyes. Now I know why I have peace in the depths of my soul and my spirit is peaceful and happy. God you are so awesome. Diana | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 782 Registered: 10-2002 |
Good point about Soo... I just haven't been around enough Adventists to know how they're reacting to her. I doubt my parents have heard of her, though (one in Maryland, the other in Phoenix), and I'm betting she's met with a lot of skepticism in Southern California (as everything there). Anyway, what I mean is if you actually meet someone with those kinds of visitations/revelations--and the condemnation that eminates from them. Remember how you felt if you met someone who started talking about how all Adventism was gone to the devil? Meeting a modern Ellen would be like that. Of course a few follow, but most quickly write the person off. And if the person had such "divine" encounters, well, the more concerned would immediately get to praying for deliverance. I guess the reason is that it is very difficult to say "they" about Adventists because there are so many, many varieties of Adventists. Not all Adventists really look for Ellen's "Jesus". And the matter is further complicated because of how much the Bible is accepted by Adventists. Colleen quoted someone awhile ago as saying that Adventism is the worst of the 'Christian cults' because there is so much truth mixed in with the cultic error. If there were no truth in the Adventist church, it would be much easier to walk away from or draw the contrast between being a historical Adventist and being a Biblical Christian. I basically see modern Adventism as existing in an uncomfortable tension between two poles: 1) Historical Adventism (Ellen's Jesus) 2) Biblical Christianity (real Jesus) Most Adventists, I believe, are somewhere in the middle, although there is such a wide range of varieties of Adventists (like the many varieties of Catholics) that you can pretty easily find one of almost any type. JW & LDS seem to have a more solild unity than Adventism. On top of this, there is the institution of Adventism, the official church. If we take things by the books, then we could say that nothing has changed. But the institution is also trying to be accepted by mainstream Christianity, and as a result has ignored much of Ellen's teachings. In a way the institution reminds me of the Saduccees of Jesus' time -- not really believing as much as the Pharisees did, but passionately out to defend and keep the nation, the institution, and all things Jewish. In the same way, those running the institution of Adventism seem to at times not believe Ellen or give her only a half a glance, but are very vehement about all things Adventist, the institution, the culture, the "heritage", etc. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 707 Registered: 9-2006 |
Ramone that makes a lot of sense to me in view of the Adventist I know and it’s probably that way because they were raised in Adventism, that’s all they know most likely and if I use the words probably and most likely it’s because I am not sure. I try to understand them the best that I can and would always rather give the benefit of the doubt. Speaking of the veil, there is the veil of blindness and then there is the veil of the temple which was rent from top to bottom, the veil of the old covenant the best I understand that. This veil has been torn from top to bottom freeing all men to come to Christ directly. Jesus said that any that come to him he would nowise cast out. In John it says “Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world. Of course the veil that Ramone was speaking of I think was the veil of deception of the enemy of our souls. So the way has been made, I won’t get into the mysteries of election here, but the statement I would like to make is that Adventist want to hold to the old covenant and confess the new covenant and of course we must choose, either the law or grace, we cannot possible have both, if we choose law then law demands perfection which no one has attained. If we choose grace we choose Christ. That is what I refer to as a “Mixing of the two covenants”, they want to hold on to the law to obtain grace but I do not see that this can be done, now I think I know what I am talking about here because the Adventist I know freely admit that the law is still in effect. It makes no sense but I suppose they feel if they keep the Sabbath that that makes up for the other commandments they do break. It just make no sense at all but that is the confusion of Adventism and so it amounts to what Ramone said “there are many kinds of Adventist.” Whether saved or lost I cannot know, this I think I do know, they are in much bondage, and it is this bondage that I am concerned for. If we are under the law the law condemns us, if under grace we are free. We must choose. It seems to me that the person who follows Adventism attempts to cling to the old covenant to obtain grace whereas if the law had been able to save and Jesus would not have had to die, we all know this but that is the mixed up world of Adventism. We who have been saved from Adventism, or anything else have the one pole star in common that binds us, saved by grace, we meet at the cross and all give thanks to God for the grace of God. The Adventist have no such pole star and so you have this mix of beliefs which all looks like Adventism to me. Living in fear and uncertainty and yet clinging doggedly to the very thing that keeps them in bondage, not happy with themselves and not happy unless everybody else is equally unhappy. Now if what I have said sounds mixed up it is because I am dealing with insanity here, the insanity and dissonance of Adventism. River |
