| Author | Message | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1276 Registered: 7-2003  |
The original genesis of this study was two questions from a friend. The first was about the Seventh-day Adventist teaching on the death of Moses and the second was about how one should understand Jesus’ story of the Rich Man and Lazarus. In considering how best to answer these questions, it became clear to me that it is crucial to first lay a foundation for understanding death from a biblical perspective. Having such a biblical foundation is essential to comprehending several related topics in Christian theology. This study will be divided in multiple parts that will build a biblical case for the orthodox Christian view of death. Once this foundation has been established, I will then deal with the two cases that occasioned the writing of this study. Part I In part one of this study, I would like to deal with the reality of the human spirit. The word translated “spirit” in English is the Greek word pneuma in the New Testament and the Hebrew word ruach in the Old Testament. Most of us grew up being told that these words usually mean “breath” when used in the Bible. That’s just not true. These Greek and Hebrew words certainly can mean “breath” or “wind” in the right context, but that’s NOT how they are usually used in the Bible. Anyone who has ever opened a dictionary knows that nearly every word in the dictionary has multiple meanings that are sometimes quite different from each other. Stop for a moment and consider how many ways you can use the word “can”, slang or otherwise. My dictionary shows at least 15 different meanings for “can”. So how do we determine the correct meaning of a word? The answer is fairly simple, context ALWAYS determines meaning. In proper biblical hermeneutics context is king. I’ll say it again, because I think most of us missed this point in our early education: “CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!” According to Zodhiates’ well respected Greek lexicon, The Complete Word Study dictionary, when “spirit” [pneuma/ruach] is used in the Bible it usually has one of the following three meanings: 1. Man's immaterial nature which enables him to communicate with God, who is also spirit. 2. An incorporeal, immaterial being, such as an angel. 3. The Holy Spirit. Why do Hebrew scholars, Greek linguists, and evangelical theologians agree on this? The answer, once again, is because of how the word is used in context. Just try this as an experiment (really, I mean it, give it a try). Try reading the following verses and substituting the word “breath” every time you see the words “spirit” or “Spirit”.
Do any of those texts make any sense at all with the word “breath” inserted? Of course not! Context demands another meaning. Simply put, “spirit” does not usually mean “breath” as used in the Bible. The suggestion that it does is a falsehood that not only violates context, but also violates essential Christian doctrine. What essential doctrines are violated? Let me list three major Christian doctrines that are violated by such an aberrant interpretation: 1. You may have noticed that I listed John 3 last instead of in biblical order. I did this for a reason. I wanted to especially highlight this text because it is essential to the message of the Gospel. If we boiled the Bible down to its most basic essence it is this: Man sinned and experienced spiritual death. Since then we have all been born dead in our sins, separated from God, and in need of a Savior. Jesus paid the price for our sin and offers us life and relationship with God. When we come to faith, our dead spirit is regenerated and is now able to commune with God’s Spirit. Our dead spirits are born again, born of the Spirit, and we have eternal life as a present possession. This is not merely metaphor, it is very real, it is the essence of salvation, it is central to the Gospel message. If we turn our spirits into mere “breath” then we have destroyed the reality of a new birth and spiritual life. To say that our “breath” is born again is nonsensical and contrary to what the Bible is teaching. I also think it is incredibly destructive to our understanding of what it really means to be saved. 2. Insisting that pneuma/ruach mean “breath” in the Bible violates the Christian concept of God’s being. Christianity believes that God is pure spirit, an incorporeal, immaterial being. That’s what Jesus is saying when he said, "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (John 4:24). In fact, Jesus is reinforcing the same teaching he delivered to Nicodemus in chapter 3. He is inferring that because God is spirit, those who worship him must have a spirit that is alive to do so. Once again, if you insert “breath” into what Jesus is saying, His words become complete nonsense. 3. Insisting that pneuma/ruach mean “breath” in the Bible infringes upon the personhood of the Holy Spirit. “Holy Spirit” is hagios pneuma in the Greek. So if we insist that pneuma must mean “breath” we end up with the “Holy Breath”. This interpretation would be closer to the Jehovah’s Witness’ idea that the Holy Spirit is merely a force, than the Biblical teaching that He is a person. Hopefully, it is clear that when pneuma and ruach are used in the Bible we must first consider the context and then assign meaning. A survey of scripture will show that these words usually mean something quite different from breath especially as they pertain to God and man. Chris | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5675 Registered: 12-2003  |
Chris, this is excellent. Thank you for another important study! Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 517 Registered: 6-2006  |
Thanks for all your hard work, Chris! Leigh Anne | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 665 Registered: 9-2006  |
Thanks for the start Chris, I tried what you said and it sounded ridicules.  River | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1277 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thank you for the positive feedback Colleen, Grace, and River. Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1278 Registered: 7-2003 |
Part II In part one of our study we saw that the words pneuma and ruach do not normally mean “breath” when applied to man by the Bible. These words, both of which are usually translated “spirit”, are used to refer to “man's immaterial nature which enables him to communicate with God, who is also spirit” according to Zodhiates’ The Complete Word Study Dictionary. So we can see that man is not body and breath, but body (physical nature) and spirit (immaterial nature). The next logical question is, “What happens to the body and the spirit when we die?” First let us note that what happens to the body at death is not the same as what happens to the spirit. The Bible often refers to death by the euphemism of “sleep”. However, that euphemism is only applied to the body, never to the spirit. “Sleep” describes the appearance of the body at death, but not the state of the spirit. The following is what I believe happens to the spirits of post-cross believers at death. At death the spirit departs the body. The spirit returns to God. The spirit is consciously with the Lord. At the second coming God will bring those departed saints with Him when He comes. He will then raise up for them imperishable bodies in the resurrection. Let’s look at a few scriptures that support these ideas either explicitly or implicitly. I have not used what I would consider to be the two strongest didactic (teaching) passages in this part of our study. I would like to reserve these for a later part of the study when we can take more time to exegete each of them thoroughly. I. At death the spirit departs the body.
When Jesus brought the girl back to life her spirit returned. It is therefore implied that her spirit departed at death.
The absence of the spirit is the definition of death. II. The spirit returns to God.
Notice that this text speaks of man going to “his eternal home”. It does not say that breath goes to its eternal home.
Again, it makes little or no sense to insert “breath” here. Why would Stephen cry out to the Lord to receive the spent CO2 in his lungs as he is being stoned to death? Stephen is asking Jesus to receive that immaterial part of him that departs the body when the body sleeps in death. III. The spirit is consciously with the Lord.
Even if there are symbolic elements in this passage, it is difficult to imagine why the Bible would depict the spirits of dead martyrs standing at the foot of the altar and asking the Lord for justice if such a notion is all a satanic lie. However much of this might be symbolic, it is clear that the Bible has no problem depicting departed saints as being consciously in the presence of the Lord. IV. At the second coming God will bring those departed saints with Him when He comes.
I have actually been to SDA funerals were verses 13 and 15 are read, but verse 14 is completely skipped over as if it did not exist. It’s rather inconvenient to SDA theology to have the departed saints coming with Jesus when He comes. V. He will then raise up for them imperishable bodies in the resurrection.
All of the texts above are very interesting indeed and I think that together they support the general premise. However, I would not consider some of these texts to be completely conclusive all by themselves, particularly those that come from wisdom or apocalyptic literature. I will discuss the reasons for this in part five, but for now suffice it to say that the strongest Christian doctrine is formulated upon New Testament didactic (teaching) passages like the last two I referenced (1 Thess. 4:13-16 and 1 Cor. 15:52). Understanding the teaching contained in clear didactic passages helps us to properly interpret those passages that are less clear. In the next part of our study I would like to continue by examining two of the strongest New Testament didactic passages dealing with death. Chris (Message edited by Chris on April 15, 2007) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3549 Registered: 3-2004  |
Chris, Thank you so much for this study. Little by little, I am seeing this clearer. Diana | ||
| Olga Registered user Username: Olga Post Number: 61 Registered: 11-2005 |
Please continue with these studies. I've been afraid to look at this doctrine because I'm not sure about it; the information here and the texts you've presented so far sound so different now than when I was SDA. It's amazing how much of what I was taught I just didn't question, it was just natural to accept all of the explanations given. To be honest, most of it was so convoluted and complex and whatever I didn't understand proved to me that it was true (get what I mean? Somehow I tought that if it sounded simple, then it just couldn't be from God. Guess I viewed other religions and their 'simple' doctrines as fast food when SDA had much 'meatier' doctrines, the kind that would "stick to your ribs" (I borrowed that phrase from Mark Finley; just came to mind). Anyways, I'm glad to be getting fed something different and trust God will help me digest it as He sees fit. Thanks a million Chris for taking time to do this; we are all waiting for more. Olga | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 668 Registered: 9-2006 |
Chris wrote:I have actually been to SDA funerals were verses 13 and 15 are read, but verse 14 is completely skipped over as if it did not exist. It’s rather inconvenient to SDA theology to have the departed saints coming with Jesus when He comes. Chris, I am beginning to come to some conclusions concerning the Word of God. It becomes problematic when they or any one of us refuse to come into agreement with his word. David said that Gods word was a lamp unto his feet. It is a much quoted verse but I have been asking myself lately "Have I come into full agreement with God s word? when we do not come into agreement with God then we are in disagreement and that is a problem. what I am saying goes much deeper than what I am portraying, I had one of those ah-ha moments myself lately and I think it is one of those things that God has to grow me into. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5679 Registered: 12-2003 |
River, I think I understand what you are saying. I totally agree. Unless we submit lives to every word of God, we are standing in judgment over it, deciding what we like and what we don't like. We, not the Bible, become our own authority. Chris, great study. I remember the first time I "saw" 1 Thessalonians 4:14. I was astonished, re-read it, and wondered how I had managed never to really understand what it was saying before. Amazing. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1026 Registered: 4-2000  |
Chris, An excellent, biblical study on the state of the dead! I liked your challenge to insert "breath" to replace "spirit" in the passages you listed. The Adventist view about death is, without any doubt, their most aberrant doctrine that distorts the nature of Christ, man, and salvation. I can't think of any heresy that assaults biblical Christianity more than soul sleep and annihilationism. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 379 Registered: 5-2004 |
Chris, Both of these studies (this and the Covenant one) are so timely for us as we are in the thick of talking with some family Thanks a million for sharing your insights with us, and helping me to take a fresh look at these texts all over again! I sure appreciate the time you put into all of this! And I keep you in my prayers that God will continue to ever strengthen you and your family. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 518 Registered: 6-2006 |
I'm really loving this study. I was raised believing that we have spirits that go to Heaven when we die. However, I didn't realize how many texts there were that supported it. Most of the time we remember the "present with Christ" verse. Your explainations are so clear and easy to understand, Chris. Thanks again! Olga, I also want to thank you for sharing your thoughts. It helps me understand my SDA family a little better. Leigh Anne | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 669 Registered: 9-2006 |
Chris, I would like your permission to use this study and the one on the covenants as I begin to make responses to my Adventist friends, I feel it is fast coming on the time when I must speak to them. Actually I will use them anyway but I would like to pass them along word for word as written rather than depend on my skills in rewording although I would have to reword some of it, not that it is weak or needs changing, but in order to redirect it to the recipient. Also I would like to know if you would like to write on the IJ sometime in the near future? However I do not wish to impose either. Thank you again for the your sharing and as for as that goes, thanks to all for sharing, you all have en richened my life. It puts me to mind of the gathering of manna, some gathered more and some less so that there was no lack. River | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 96 Registered: 8-2005 |
Chris, River, All, It sounds just as ridiculous when the word "Spirit" is replaced in the SDA code word for EGW: "Breath of Prophecy"! | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1279 Registered: 7-2003 |
River, Printing these studies to give to others is okay with me, but I would suggest securing Colleen's permission as well. I've given FAF/Proclamation permission to use these studies in whatever way they choose. I think the covenants study will be on the FAF website and there may be some possiblity of excerpting some of state of the dead study for Proclamation. In short, I think FAF/Proclamation now owns the rights to the material so please just double check with Colleen to make sure it's okay to print and distribute. Thanks, Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1280 Registered: 7-2003 |
Brian, Ha! That's pretty funny. I don't think I've thought of that one before. Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1281 Registered: 7-2003 |
Diana, Olga, Dennis, Esther, and Leigh Anne, Thank you for your kind comments. I am glad to hear that they study seems to be meeting a need. I will plan on getting part three out this evening when I get home. Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1282 Registered: 7-2003 |
Part III In part two of our study we took a systematic approach to some scriptures that support the orthodox Christian view of what happens to the spirits of post-cross believers at death. At death the spirit departs the body. The spirit returns to God. The spirit is consciously with the Lord. At the second coming, God will bring those departed saints with Him when He comes. He will then raise up for them imperishable bodies in the resurrection. We systematically looked at several texts to get a general overview, a big picture view if you will. However, I noted that I would not necessarily consider each of the texts I presented to be conclusive in and of themselves, merely supportive of a larger picture presented in scripture. To formulate sound doctrine we need to do more extensive inductive Bible study in didactic passages meant to teach the Church about this very topic. In part three I would like to spend our entire time looking at just such a passage, 2 Corinthians 5:1-9.
Paul here uses the symbolism of a tent to represent our current perishable bodies. A tent is not a permanent dwelling. It’s easily torn down, just like these bodies. But the good news is that we can look forward to one day having an imperishable body from Heaven that is permanent and will never be torn down. This happens at the resurrection, but in the meantime, those who have departed are said to be “unclothed”. To be spirit without body is not a natural state. The Christian worldview is not platonic, but very physical.
The idea that we can be “unclothed” strongly suggests that there is something real there to unclothe, namely our spirit. Paul has already shown that our current bodies are only temporary tents, but he now shows that it is possible to be “naked”, that is to be spirit without body. We groan in these bodies that grow older every day. We experience aches, pains, sickness and frailty, and yet few of us really look forward to the unnatural state of death when these bodies will be torn down like a tent. What we look forward to is the final state when we will again be clothed with our imperishable eternal bodies.
This passage is the source of the oft repeated Christian refrain, “Absent from the body, present with Lord”. This seems pretty clear. In fact, I don’t know how Paul could be anymore clear. When we are in these bodies we are absent from the Lord. When we are absent from these bodies we are at home with the Lord. Now if we don’t have spirits, only breath as SDA doctrine teaches, how could we possibly be absent from our body and at home with the Lord? The only way Paul’s thought makes any sense at all is if we have a real spirit that can be absent from the body and be with Christ awaiting the resurrection. Also please note two other very important things: 1. Paul says he would actually “prefer…to be absent from the body”! Now this can only make sense if he is consciously with Christ. Think about it, who in their right mind would prefer to be non-existent over being here with loved ones and doing the work the Lord has given us to do? Paul can’t possibly be saying he would prefer to be non-existent or unconscious. It also doesn’t work to say that Paul is merely looking forward to the second coming and the resurrection because he specifically says that he is talking about a time when he is absent from the body and at home with the Lord. This can’t be the resurrection because he is absent from the body. Paul is describing a conscious existence, absent from the body, present with the Lord, which he sees as preferable. 2. Paul indicates that it is possible to be actively pleasing (the Greek word is present tense and active voice) to the Lord when in the body *OR* ABSENT from the body!!! The only way we could possibly be actively pleasing to the Lord when absent from the body is if we are conscious and active in some way. To say that Paul is talking about a non-existent or unconscious state makes his teaching nonsense. And again, it simply DOES NOT work to claim that Paul is only looking forward to the resurrection because he specifically refers to being absent from the body. I just don’t see how we can get an unconscious or non-existent state out of this didactic passage without doing incredible mental gymnastics. This just seems as clear as it could be. If you were Paul and wanted to state that to be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord, how would you state it anymore clearly? A final word before closing this installment, remember that the strongest most dogmatic Christian doctrine should be based on NT didactic (teaching) passages. Starting from the solid foundation of very clear teaching that is given to the NT Church we are then able to rightly interpret the OT as well as other forms of biblical literature such as wisdom literature. Be very suspicious of dogmatic doctrine that seems to flip flop this most basic hermeneutical principle. When a doctrine has been based largely on OT wisdom literature, it deserves careful scrutiny. The NT didactic passage we looked at in this part gives us an excellent basis for the Christian doctrine of “absent from the body, present with the Lord”. Next time we will examine another NT didactic passage that is equally strong and convicting. Chris | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 670 Registered: 9-2006 |
I have been thinking along the lines since the start of this study of why it is so hard for people to believe we have a spirit that, as far as I understand cannot be see readily with the eye. It would be no more complicated than Jesus having a living body and yet he was shown having a living body that could be touched, eat and so forth and as far as I can tell by the scriptures he will always have the same body. Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Luke 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. Luke 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? Luke 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. Luke 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them. I got to thinking about this and I began to wonder what it will be like, I want to walk up and touch his hands, obviously I will not be the only one to desire this. Will there be a waiting line? We do not know and probably cannot even imagine what it will be like and yet so many people have so much trouble in believing anything they cannot see. If we, as Christians limit everything to the eye that grows dim, and a brain that grow steadily forgetful, then I don’t see where we are any better off at least in this world than the unbeliever. Thank God that it is possible to see through the eyes of the Holy Spirit, to see things wondrous to behold and get a glimpse of a better time. He showed those people his hands and his feet, I think he wants us to know that he is alive and that we are alive and even though this body fades away with the years yet with those years our hope, our vision, grows brighter with the passing days as we spend time with his presence within us and the world begins to lose its hold. Don’t let this interrupt the study but Chris, as I look at the scriptures you have presented my faith grows stronger and my step a little springier. Corinthians I 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? In him River |
