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| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 663 Registered: 9-2006  |
Strange teachings of Adventism. ************************************************** God's screen is a combination of justice and mercy for He must take into account the inner desires and motives of the screenees. He must also consider their circumstances and opportunities to know His will. Those who have been converted and committed their lives to His service and the loving service of others, whose names are in the Lamb's Book of Life will readily pass the test, but there are also murderers, adulterers. thieves, and those who have not known of God who will be admitted through the screen. God in His mercy, forbearance and foreknowledge will know if it is safe to let them through. Those who have spurned God's love and rebelled against His government will not pass and will be discarded as waste. We are given a glimpse behind the scenes in the Old Testament dealings of God with the human race and with the nation of Israel in particular. The Holy Watchers pronounced doom on Belshazzar, and King Saul. They also pronounced sentence on Nebuchadnezzar and on Sampson. The time will come when each of us will face the soul- penetrating gaze of these Holy Watchers. Will we be ready to pass through "the character sieve?" ************************************************** ************************************************** "God can accept no partial obedience, no lax way of treating His commandments. By the judgment upon Uzzah He designed to impress upon all Israel the importance of giving strict heed to His requirements." (MS 17, 1891 - E.G.White). ************************************************** Sounds reasonable on surface doesn’t it? This is part of two letters received from an Adventist friend complete with quotes from our dear sister White,but is this sound Bible doctrine? Concerning the Character sieve, here is what Jesus told Peter, Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. Who is the one that desires to sift us? Concerning obedience: He is partly right, God can accept no partial obedience, no lax way of treating His commandments, the trouble is that the commandments have been broken, that’s why Jesus died, to fulfill the law in our behalf and bring healing of the breach and wholeness to us, he gave freely of his wholeness. Look at this one: Those who have been converted and committed their lives to His service and the loving service of others, whose names are in the Lamb's Book of Life will readily pass the test, but there are also murderers, adulterers. thieves, and those who have NOT known of God who will be admitted through the screen. God in His mercy, forbearance and foreknowledge will know if it is safe to let them through. Where doe it say that those who are NOT written in the Lambs book of life will inherit God’s kingdom. Here is what it says about not knowing God, Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Corinthians I 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Corinthians I 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Still believe that murders, adulterers, adulterers and thieves will be allowed Mr. Adventist? And which of us are in perfect obedience, Sir please stand up, I want to learn from you the facts, how have you accomplished it? The man that wrote the stuff between the asterisk is a good Adventist I am sure, he is faithful and earnest Adventist and is of old age, but he is in contradiction with the word as far as I can tell. Do you think that being in contradiction with the word amounts to rebellion? What do you think contradiction of the word amounts to? What if you went to church service tomorrow and the teachings were in direct contradiction to the word? What is your reply to what I have written, if any? Now I don’t want to Hog the Forum, if somebody says something I will try to shut up and listen awhile.  River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5674 Registered: 12-2003  |
River, you are right. I have actually pondered lately the fact that my early training that there are very sincere people who haven't heard "the truth" who will be in heaven has deeply colored my view of who is and isn't saved. On Friday morning I went to our monthly Systematic Theology class that Elizabeth Inrig teaches for women at Trinity Church. Our topic was chapter 25 of Grudem's Bible Doctrines, and the subject was death, the afterlife, and the intermdediate state. I was sitting next to my friend R who is also a former and transitioned out about the same time we did. Elizabeth opened by asking each one of us what we thought of when we think of death. Many of the women said that they feel deep concern for their unsaved family members, and they pray a lot for them. About halfway through this response time, R whispered to me, "I wish I had that kind of deep concern for the lost." I replied, "So do I; I think it's our Adventism that has kept us from feeling like that." I have a very real intellectual concern for the lost—and I have come to see that Adventists in general (not specific individuals) must be considered among the potentially lost. As an Adventist, however, I really didn't have even an intellectual concern for the lost. Still I have a disconnect between what I know and what I feel about these things. The Adventist mindset taught us to believe that God "wouldn't" keep anyone out of heaven that wanted to be there. There was never an emphasis on the fact that people needed to KNOW Jesus and be born again. In fact, Adventists in general reject the idea that people MUST accept Jesus to be saved. They even mock that idea when they are together in subtle ways. God wouldn't expect someone who had never heard of Jesus to accept Him, now would He? If people don't know, they can still be saved. Now, I'll grant that there is some mystery involved here, and I have to trust Jesus to deal justly and mercifully with all people. But I know now that Jesus said unless a person is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven. And those who persist in willful sin are not among the saved. Adventism warps reality in profound ways, and they are very subtle. As I said, I have recently been pondering the fact that I have to get past my Adventist response when I think of the lost. My head is caught up with what the Bible says, but my feelings still go into "auto mode" when I hear people talk about their unbelieving friends. As an Adventist, an "unbelieving friend" was a non-Adventist, Christian or not. Now, an "unbelieving friend" is a non-Christian, but I have to filter out my deeply ingrained response to that phrase when I think of the "unbelievers". For me, using the term "unsaved" or "the lost" is actually more powerful, because those were not terms Adventists used for anyone who is alive. They would use those terms to refer to the future, when "the lost" would be destroyed at the end of time, but they would never speak of a living person as "lost" or "unsaved". Always they would say we cannot know if a person is saved or lost—including, of course, oneself. Interesting thread, River. Thank you. Colleen | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 560 Registered: 4-2006  |
I must say that many in Christendom thinks that way, we can't know for sure, they say. Speaking about the lost isn't popular, but maybe it stems from people who aren't sure of their salvation themselves. Also the argument, isnt God unfair if he doesn't reveal himself to people and show them the Truth. It reminds me of "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." Rom 1,20 In His wonderful joy, Martin | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 664 Registered: 9-2006 |
Excellent response Colleen, I have noticed the former Adventist aversion to distinguishing between the unsaved and the saved, I myself have pondered this question many times concerning my friends, I have felt that at times when I mention it that I was somehow, at times being, shall we say, politely rebuked and that is ok, just because some disagrees with me don’t mean I am going to sit here and eat worms. I think this question of “saved” and “unsaved” is an important one. Of course if we really have no burden for the lost it is a moot point. When I consider these people I have a plethora of mixed emotions, I think brought on by personal friendship with these people, emotions NOT of judgmental nature but emotions born of concern for one whom I believe is locked in heresy, when I stack what the Bible says up against such heresy it is alarming and although I want to believe the best of him and that he is a true brother in Christ I become worried and unsettled concerning that. Now notice what he says here “Those who have been converted and committed their lives to His service and the loving service of others, whose names are in the Lamb's Book of Life will readily pass the test” But just what is his concept of that? I think he is referring to being converted to Adventism and the loving service of others in delivering them to the Adventist doctrine and if they do that and become a proper Adventist, then their name is written in the Lamb’s book of life, in other words their real hope is Adventism and the Adventist church. That is what I at least think is the underlying character of his statement, something along that line anyhow, far different from my concept of conversion and therein lies my reason for concern. The mixed emotions are brought on by the blistering dissonance between heresy and Bible truth. Now if we take a look at Peter II 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. Peter II 2:2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. Peter II 2:3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber. The King James version says “Damnable heresies”, I prefer the word “destructive” as used by most other translations. Notice “will exploit you with deceptive words” are Adventist deceptive? See “Revelation brings peace seminar”. Now do any of you feel that the Adventist doctrine is heresy? If so do you feel that it is a “destructive” heresy? How many tears do you think have been shed by the people on this forum from the day it was initiated until this Sunday morning? Would a gallon bucket hold them, or a five gallon bucket do you think, or would I have to get the pickup out, or more still yet? We might very well measure tears that fell to the ground or wetted the face, but how do we measure inner suffering and damnable dissonance and heartache or the tearing of the family fabric? If one can come on here and read and not shed a tear that person needs to ask God to soften his heart and make it a little more pliable. If one begins to hate the person locked in heresy he needs to find himself an alter somewhere and not come up till he has prayed through. Fact is I have to “pray through” quite often in order not to resent the person and try to keep an eternal outlook on it. As the old cowboy said “Hell’s comin to breakfast” and we have to plea for the long suffering of God for ourselves and others when it comes right down to the wire. River P.S. Martin, I agree with that, as a theologian said in one of my classes “Every good heresy is taken from the same Bible you read. |
