| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 611 Registered: 9-2006  |
I was again reminded of my long standing Question ìAre Adventist, as a general rule, (not trying to lump everybody together you understand) Christian? The story about the sheep in LAM family news again brought this question to my attention. Thank you so much for that story of an outing that turned into a blessing. I suppose what creates a quandary in my mind concerning this is just my logical way of thinking. The pertinent statement made by Jesus is this John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. Here is my question ìIf Jesus sheep ìhearî his voice and they follow him, then how can a person who follows Adventism be his sheep? How can one following Adventism be ìhearingî the voice of the savior? Just as the real life incident of the shepherds command and the sheepís response as pertaining to the story in LAM family news, I think is what Jesus was talking about. As was stated in the story ìMarveled at the instant and knowing response of that entire flock of sheep when the shepherd called out his command.î I hope I have made myself understood. Now here is what puts me in a real tizzy about this whole thing. This past Sunday some of my Adventist friends visited at my home. We just talked as old friends who value each other, which we do. Nothing was said about Adventism (I did not fry up a stray Cat)  . When it came time to say goodbye we gathered in a circle and held hands and prayed. I sensed, on a deep spiritual level the Spirit of God, the sheep gathered together to pray and honor the Lord, the shepherd of our lives, yet I know they are hard line Adventist. Here is my question to you formers. Is it possible, do you think, for a person to follow Adventism on a knowledge level and yet be acquainted with the Lord on a deeper spiritual level? I really do need to resolve this question. River | ||
| Cselby Registered user Username: Cselby Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2007 |
I absolutely believe that practicing Adventists can be acquainted with Christ at a deep spiritual level. My dear brother in law, who is an active Adventist...he teaches Sabbath School and does bible studies in his home, I believe has a very deep spiritual relationship with God. I should however qualify this with the fact that he does not subscribe to EJW's teachings at all. Last weekend we spent about three hours having a very heartfelt discussion of Adventism, as well as my rejection of it. During that time he shared with me his spiritual experiences, sometimes tearing up as he spoke (which for this guy is really unusual!). He was so respectful of me and my beliefs and I returned the respect in kind. None of us truly knows the spiritual experience of any one person, except our own. If I am to profess true freedom, freedom to believe in the Christ of my understanding (of course based upon earnest bible study) then I must extend that same freedom to someone who chooses Adventism. It would be arrogant of me to judge my brother in law's experience or any other Adventist's spiritual experience. I've learned from Christ's teachings that I am to love everyone and leave the judging up to God. I was so touched as my brother in law expressed his anger and disappointment in the way in which the church handled the upheaval of the 80's. His profound sadness of the mass exodus from Adventism was written all over his face. He believes with all his heart in the Adventist faith, but it was also very apparent that he walks daily with Jesus Christ and it is the most important relationship in his life. I left that encounter with my brother in law praising God. What a wonderful opportunity to come together with a significant person in my life and be able to share my deepest spiritual convictions and listen to his and come away feeling a deep spiritual connection with someone who chooses to frame his relationship with God in a different manner from mine and still feel respect and understanding. As I reflected upon your question, these questions occurred to me...Is it really important for me to label Adventism as a whole Christian or non-Christian? Or is it more important for me to concentrate on my personal relationship with God and leave the labeling/determination up to God? Cindy | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 462 Registered: 11-2004 |
Yes River. It is possible. I had a deep personal relationship with Christ as an Adventist. True there are many following religion and tradition and not Jesus. However, I know there are many who do know Him and love Him and truly believe in Adventism at the same time. It is kinda like that song goes - "You will know they are Christians by their love". Some Adventists demonstrate the love of God so genuinely no matter if you are an outcast or one of them. Others are lawmongerers who do not show the love of Christ. I do wonder though about the salvation of someone who has no assurance of salvation - who is trusting in their own works to complete their salvation. That problem is not unique to Adventism. However, I am not their judge. I can just pray for them and lift up what Christ has done for them. | ||
| Nicole Registered user Username: Nicole Post Number: 48 Registered: 4-2006 |
river and others, great question. i have tried to discern that over the years with my husband's family. they are certainly christian people who live to serve God. i have kind of concluded that they put up many barriers and requirements in order to do that "right". they (although they have never said it outright to me) are very skeptical and judgemental of those outside of adventism (in an arrogant sort of way), and seem to feel like "all is well" if someone joins or realigns themselves with SDA. about once or twice a year my mil will quietly ask my husband if we have ever considered going to an adventist church, for some odd reason such as the children's program, schools, etc., knowing we already attend a church. I have thought that if you took adventism away from my mil (who is a very good, christian woman) i am not sure if she would know what to do. Would she even know Christ? so much has been dictated to her through her church. but it is a tough question, because only God knows their hearts, and i think i should be careful not to judge their salvation. still, you can encourage them into (or strengthen )a true relationship with Christ and point out errors (EGW) in adventism. this comes from someone who is not adventist, so i am certain the "formers" are much more equipped to answer that question. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5567 Registered: 12-2003  |
I agree. Adventists can have personal relationships with Jesus. I know that I did, and I knew that God was working in my life. And Cindy and River, I have come back to your observation and question over and over again over the years. I believe it is extremely important for us to be clear that every individual Advenitst is a person Jesus is wooing and nurturing. Just as in every single place in the world, God is not less at work in the hearts of Adventists than in "regular" Christian churches. He is at work in Muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Jehovah's WitnessesóHe is at work in human hearts regardless of where they are. The power of God and the beauty of the Holy Spirit and Jesus' finished work is that they are no respecter of persons. He offers salvation to everyone. He can awaken hearts wherever they are. For example, Richard recently read a book by Carma Naylor, "A Mormon's Unexpected Journey". Carma was a multi-generational Mormon who devoutly believed that the Book of Mormon was Scripture along with the Bible. Believing that the Bible taught truth and that Jesus died to save people from sin, she felt strongly impressed one day (after ignoring the idea for a while) to take a New Testament to her Jewish neighbor. She told her neighbor that she needed to read the book of Matthew. The next day the Jewish neighbor came to her in tears and said, "I believe! Jesus is truly my Messiah!" Carma rejoiced with her, also realizing that the woman had become a Christian. Carma proceded to study with her neighbor to teach her the "whole truth"óbut to her surprise, the neighbor resisted the Mormon teachings Carma presented. Ironically, they both became caught up the Jehovah's Witnesses, but Carma eventually realized that the JWs had Scriptural problems as well. Eventually, Carma attended an Adventist Revelation seminar. She was quite convicted at first, but she finally realized the propblems with the IJ/1844 doctrines, and she did not join. Today she is a member of an evangelical Christian church. My point is this: when evaluating the "Adventist" situation, it is extremely important to differentiate between the people and the religion. God brings people to trust God and even to have some understanding of Jesus' saving work within Adventism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and everywhere. In SDA, LDS, and JW, the possibility is always there that people will be able to learn of Jesus because each of these churches includes the Bible in their Scriptural "canons". Even though each of these churches blurs the true identity of Jesus and the true nature of His finished work, still His word is accessible, and people do come to believe in Him. Similarly, Jesus Himself is appearing increasingly frequently in dreams to Muslims who desire to know the true God. God is by no means limited by false religion in bringing people to Himself. The problem, of course, is that false religions cannot nurture and disciple people into true, deep faith and help them to grow in the Lord. At the same time, because they do not teach the true gospel, they obscure the truth, and many people who are not consciously hungering for truth are prevented from knowing the gospel. But eventually God brings each person who has claimed faith in Jesus to deeper and deeper levels of honesty. He brings them face to face with the dissonance between their faith and their church, if they are in a church teaching a false gospel. It's like the parable in Matthew 13 of the soils. There were four soils; only one was good. Of the three bad soils, one never sprouted plants at all. The seed never germinated. The other two bad soils DID sprout seeds. The rocky soil represents people who receive the gospel with joy, embrace it, and sprout health-looking plants. No one looking on from the outside would guess that those plants had no deep roots. But when the heat was on, they withered and died. They had no root drinking from the deep rivers of life to sustain them during times of drought. The other bad soil also sprouted the gospel seed. It grew up among the weeds of worldly cares and worries, and eventually the gospel plants were choked to death by the concerns of life. Bottom line: the true believers are those who persevere. We can't know by looking who is REALLY a true believer. Time reveals the truth, and the plants' eventual fruit speaks of its "sincerity" or lack of it. We have to be able to know that any believer in Jesus who is stuck in an anti-gospel group is at risk. It will be hard for them to grow uninhibitged by worldly concerns or to put down deep roots. Adventism itself did not spring out of the apostolic tradition. Its founders threw out everything and reformulated all their doctrines. It was born in Arianism and gnsoticismóthey did not believe in the Trinity or the eternal oneness of Jesus with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Further, they believed they had new "present truth" necessary to understand the gospel. Adventism grew out of heresy, not orthodox Christian tradition. Adventism still holds onto its cultic origins as a necessary tradition. It has never renounced its false prophet or repented of its false teachings. It has attempted, over time, to change those teaching in some ways and to camouflage them in others, but they still cling to them. Adventism itself is not a true Christian church. But there are true Christians within it, because Jesus is not limited by false doctrines and cultic practices when He touches and awakens people. But over the long term, people who truly believe in the Biblical gospel and find themselves in SDA, LDS, JW, etc., will be brought, step-by-step, to a point of decision. They will have to face the question: do I love and trust Jesus enough to let go of these attached heresies? Do I love Jesus enough to let go of my previous identity which was not primarily Jesus but (Adventist, Mormon, JW, etc)? We can't know exactly where a person is in this process; we can only encourage him/her in the Lord and never compromise with them when we talk about the gospel. We really can't let them think that hanging onto the law or the teachings of a false prophet is OK. Of course, we don't bombard them with negativity, but we must keep talking to them about Jesus being enough when they talk to us. I can confidently say that even the most spiritually alive Adventist is confused at some level and is not experiencing the joy of the Lord that is our true legacy in Him. And in truth, we can't know which ones are really attached to Jesus no matter the cost and which ones are attracted to Jesus and experiencing some spiritual quickening without fully submitting to Him. We ultimately have to trust Jesus to teach them and to give us wisdom as we interact and pray with them. And we have to resist equating the people with the church. The church (Adventism, that is!) is false and is rooted in heresy. It cannot indefinitley nurture a growing and mature Christ-follower. But Jesus is faithful, and He will lead those who know Him to greener pastures in His time. That being said, Jesus doesn't save people on the basis of their theology or doctrines. If they genuinely place their trust in Jesus and in God's promises, they will be safe with Him. But only Jesus knows for sure which ones have truly placed saving faith in Him and which haven't. His commission to us is to make disciples, and as Christ-followers who have been rescued from the darkness of false religion, we do have a unique responsibility to expose untruth and to reveal Jesus when He gives us the chance. Then we have to trust His Spirit to work on the hearts of the hearers. As a friend of mine said, the people who leave Adventism for Jesus are those who did not hear their Father's voice within the churchóso they followed His voice out. Colleen | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 171 Registered: 8-2006  |
River, Based on my experience I would have to say no. This causes me great pain because I know it is a very sensitive issue and many people that I love are still "inside." The reason I say "no" is due to the witness of the SDA's themselves. While I was processing out many friends and family alike warned me that my belief in Jesus alone would not be enough. If I left the SDA church I would lose my soul and take my family with me. My decisions would have eternal consequenses... the list goes on and on. When I would tell them of my new found joy in Christ they accused me of allowing my mind to be deceived by satan. So as you can see, I can only logically conclude that in the Adventist mindset, Christ cannot save you, it is only Adventism that can save you. Would this come from a true Christian? Sadly I think not. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5571 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, TimóI believe that you are right about most Adventists. While many of the more progressive or evangelical ones would say Grace is enough, in truth, if they were faced with the idea of personally abandoning the Sabbath (or vegetarianism, etc.) they would be unable to explain whyóbut they would fear losing their salvation. They do believe that they need to embrace the Sabbath and their "prophetic" legacy in order to be spiritually secureóor in order to be eligible to be secure. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3491 Registered: 3-2004  |
There are some adventists within the SDA church who know Jesus. My friends in VA are a rare example of them. They love God with their heart, soul, and mind. These are the friends who recently found out about EGW and her plagiarism. They did not condemn me when I decided not to rejoin the SDA church or when I got my ears pierced and she is still one of my best friends. Diana | ||
| Nicole Registered user Username: Nicole Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2006 |
timmy, i guess you make a good point. i do suspect that my in-laws main objective is to pull my husband back into the fold. like i said, they appear to be people who want to serve God, but it has to be within adventism. when i asked my mil for advice once with some marital problems we were having, she wrote my husband a note with the suggestion of him going to an SDA church again. i was hoping for some motherly encouragement from her with practical advice and of course prayer and encouraging him in his faith in Christ. not a plea for adventism. so maybe it is more black and white, if they are truly in a relationship with Christ where they completely place their faith in Him, then they would be doubting their church(?). | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 265 Registered: 4-2005  |
While God alone knows the depth of sin dwelling within me, one thing I do know. I know that on a fairly regular basis I am guilty of judging others without knowing their motive or any inner reality which makes up the totality of their Self. "Boy So-in-so was sure in a grouchy mood today." The truth may be that "So-in-so" may have been suffering from a splitting head ache. "She thinks she is such hot stuff!" That judgment call may have been based solely upon seeing that person raise her eye brows in response to something someone said, and I interpreted that "look" as meaning she was really stuck on herself. We judge people for being sloppy, fat, unkempt, not having shaved, having body odor, losing their patience. Do we ever lose our patience? So what's my point? The Bible says the human tongue "is a restless evil and full of deadly poison" (Ja 3:8). We are told that "God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance (and makes unfounded, often totally subjective judgment calls) but the Lord looks at the heart" (1 Sam 16:7). While Jesus did say, "By their fruits you shall know them," still this must be balanced with Rom 3:10, 12. Do I know the facts or the truth about most Adventists? Of the many millions now listed as members, have I done even a statistical study of each one to enable me to form a fairly correct judgment call based on the results of my study? Ok, I'll come down to earth now and admit, that we say things all the time that, if we had only paused to "think" first, we might have worded it in a different way. My wife is always pointing this out to me when I say things like, "You never wipe the faucet off!" Never? Not EVER? Not even once? See what I mean. So, we are human. I have not met one of us humanoid types, that I have judged as "perfect." But, I feel I must guard my judgment calls which pertain to what's "inside" ~ "in their spirit" ~ of other people who claim to be Christians or Christ followers or "believers." To be a Christian means to be Christ LIKE. Please, let the first one on this forum that is consistently LIKE CHRIST, post that information here. I wonder why you have not - at least already - made the Oprah Show or the cover of the Review and Herald under the headline, perhaps: "One Finally Has Reached Perfection ~ Read how they did it below." The only Person who knows TRULY who are His true sheep is the one and ONLY True Shepherd, Jesus Christ, the God-Son-Creator-Redeemer. Let me rein my self and my tongue in more frequently and consistently.....and realize that any pot-shots I am taking at other Christians, or Church goers, up here in the stands of self-righteous judgment, are based solely upon what I see of them on their OUTSIDE.......NOT what is invisible and secret, known only to God, on their inside. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5573 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jess, you are right about only God knowing His true sheep. He knew from the foundation of the earth those who are His, and ONLY He knows. I believe that we do need to realize that Adventists have a major impediment to knowing the truth. As Jackob has said so well in another thread, they not only don't see the gospel, but they are blinded by a spiritual veil that derives from the false prophet at their foundation. However, as I've said before, I do not believe Jesus is limited by false religion when He seeks people to awaken them to Him. (Think Abraham being called out of moon-worship!) He can stimulate a desire to know Him in anyone, anywhere. General revelation is everywhere, and the Bible is accessible to all Adventists. But Adventists do have certain obstacles in place to being able to accurately hear the gospel. Praise God He's bigger than our limitations, and praise God that He has called us to Himself and is equipping us to present truth and reality to our Adventist loved ones. We understand better than anyone the nature of their struggle and confusion. I am deeply convicted that the growing numbers of people discovering the truth about Adventism and leaving the church is a movement orchestrated by God Himself. He is shining the light of reality and truth into a dark "place", and because of His sovereign hand in the development of technology (internet), the truth is accessible to the world for the first time. God is in this. He is calling people out of the darkness of false religion and spiritual bondage. He is faithful! Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 614 Registered: 9-2006 |
My question in the beginning which was î Is it possible, do you think, for a person to follow Adventism on a knowledge level and yet be acquainted with the Lord on a deeper spiritual level?î had nothing to do at all with judging anyone. It really had to do with the question of correct discernment of spiritual matters that are taking place. Many times the Lord deals with me on a spiritual level and sometimes I am uncertain about what just took place. Your answers pretty well confirmed what I sensed on a spiritual level and I thank you for them. To search to know and understand the things of God may sometimes appear as ìjudgingî when in reality one may be ìseekingî. In my dealings with these people I am trying to contend for the faith. That is not always an easy thing. Certainly Adventism on a Bible knowledge level is seriously lacking but sometimes information is passed between people on a deep spiritual level and does not necessarily translate onto a knowledge level. The spiritual level is different from the knowledge level, that is why Paul said he prayed with the spirit but the understanding is unfruitful. Some folks think that a spiritual level is the same level that we think with and I believe that is completely wrong but they are free to think it. I am not saying that it never translates to a knowledge level but I am saying that sometimes it does not. The Holy Spirit is always on his on level but the problem is we are not always on his level, if we were we would have a lot less problems. On all levels we need to contend for the faith. And of course this all IMHO. River | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 885 Registered: 8-2004  |
Is is possible for someone who is Adventist by training and upbringing to be acquainted with the Lord? Yes. I believe it is. I believe however that that acquaintance will not be full or clear until God has removed the veil that seems to cover those who cling to the shadows of Mosaic law instead of embracing Jesus alone. In my experience I had surrendered my life to God, had committed my ways to Jesus, and walked in what I understood to be the Spirit to the best of my ability as an SDA. But as I walked, and as I learned, and as I continued to study God nudged me along toward what would end up being a huge leap that I had not taken before because I didn't know I needed to - I lept from my faith in the doctrines of the SDA church ABOUT God into a trusting, living relationship with my living, personal, available (not shut up in a Sanctuary somewhere), loving, Almighty Creator and Redeemer, my King and my Friend. One other thing besides the 'veil' that I had to face up to was the deceit at the foundation of Seventh Day Adventism. The foundation based on the error of William Miller (which he thankfully repented of) pasted over, reinterpreted, and added to by early Adventist Ministers, and confirmed by the inspiration of visions. I had to surrender my faith in a messenger from God (who I loved, and loved to read, and had hoped to vindicate) who contradicted God. I had to surrender the culture, traditions, and norms that Adventism had bred into me. But these things came as God brought me to them after He'd claimed me for His own, not in order for me to come to Him. Are there people who know God in the SDA church? Yes! But do they really know God as He is? I would hazard to say there is much that they need to learn. On the other hand, even on this side of that leap God called me to there is much I need to learn too! What I don't need to discover (because He's already taught me) is the glorious freedom of Grace. This is something I long to see current SDAs. That they may be free in Christ not just in word, but in spirit and deed as well! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5578 Registered: 12-2003 |
Well said, Mary. Yes, some know Godóbut probably all are limited in knowing Him as He is. I believe it is God Himself who awakens the cognitive dissonance in those who begin to be uncomortable with Adventism. And I believe He calls people to risk trusting Him and to be honest as He brings truth before them. And Mary, you are absolutely right about the bottom line need to face the deceit at the foundation of the church. That recognition is the heart of the honesty in relationship to Adventism to which He calls all of us. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 616 Registered: 9-2006 |
I believe however that that acquaintance will not be full or clear until God has removed the veil that seems to cover those who cling to the shadows of Mosaic law instead of embracing Jesus alone. ************************************************** You hit the nail on the head Mary. I believe God wants to do a work in my Adventist friendís life and is hindered by a false religion. Dare I say such a thing? I believe he wants to do a work in all our lives and is hindered by us in one way or another so yes, I can say it without sounding puffed up. I believe when my friendís, my wife and I held hands in a circle that something happened that is beyond religion. I think that God is doing a work in their lives as well as my own and I will keep praying for them and expressing my faith to them. Their religion sickens me if you want to know the truth, it is horrible and deplorable and I hate what it does to them and to other people but that does not mean that I cannot love them. For whatever reason that I became acquainted and even aware of so many Adventist and Adventism, I am where I am and I will stay the course until God changes my direction if it at all lies within me. I encourage you all to do the same, stay the course with your family and friends, who are still in Adventism. Should I say things like that to you? Yes, I believe so. I donít see the wrong in it. When I get down in spirit you can encourage me, not that I am saying you are down in spirit at the present time. In him. River | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 134 Registered: 7-2000 |
As an SDA, I would say (quietly) and believed, I had a relationship with God. However, from where I stand now- away from adventism with distance in years and experiencing God tearing away the veil- I now wonder if I really had it. It makes me feel better to think I did have a relationship with God back then. One thing I know for sure, that, before I was blind, now I see. Once I was in spiritual darkness but now I am in spiritual light. Once I did not know Christ, but now I know Him as my Savior. I am not judging Adventists' relationship with Christ. I only know that many Adventists with whom I associate, do sound hollow, empty and prideful of their salvation by adventism. They use evangelical christian words but they come across as a meaningless drone. I say this with sadness. I love my sda friends and I am much concerned about their spiritual destiny. I do have a deep sense of culture after being embedded for a very long time. I wasn't a mere observer or rebellious bystander. I gave it my all until I had to face the fact Adventism is founded on and still anchored in spiritual deception. Now, I can't allow politeness, apathy or political correctness stifle me. I'd take the risk and be accused of judging by voicing my concern and question about their -sda- relationship with Christ. I don't take it for granted MY friends (the ones I know personally) know Jesus in a real way and living way. Many of them communicate the exact opposite in their words or actions. I really do love and care about my SDA friends. Erma (Message edited by bmorgan on March 22, 2007) | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 106 Registered: 10-2006 |
Cindy, If your brother in law doesn't "subscribe to EGW's writings at all", then, by definition, he isn't an Adventist at all. One thing that continues to confound me in my third year out of Adventism is how so many view the 28 fundamentals as a menu of beliefs to choose from - a sort of designer-religion where one can pile their plate with as little or as much religious dogma to fill their spiritual bellys. Question: How many Adventists can you line up who agree on what doctrines of the 28 they agree on? And these are the remnant? The SDA church is not only not the remnant church, it is Babylonic confusion, perhaps rivaled only by postmodern Islam, defined by its' mainstream fear and timidity. How can you be saved if you don't believe it? Like oil and water, fear and supremacy do not mix. steve | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 619 Registered: 9-2006 |
I was trying to think of that word today ìpolitical correctnessî. It can get very frustrating to have to give up explaining my feelings on a matter when I am unable to recall the words I need, I suppose that is a result of age. Now I am going to use a new phrase ìspiritual political correctnessî using that phrase to say that we donít dare bring someoneís salvation into question, after all that would be ìjudgingî them. Erma said that she could not î allow politeness, apathy or political correctness stifle me. I'd take the risk and be accused of judging by voicing my concern and question about their -sda- relationship with Christ. I don't take it for granted MY friends (the ones I know personally) know Jesus in a real way and living way. Many of them communicate the exact opposite in their words or actions.î Why can she (or me either) not allow those things to stifle her? Well, because of the Word for one thing! It is a matter of what our faith is built on, if our faith is built on Adventism and our faith is in the Adventist church (or) the sayings of EGW then are we in danger? I am reminded this morning of the words of a song we sing ìOn Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sandî That song really pins it down doesnít it? If we have built on any other foundation but Christ then we have cause to be concerned. I truly believe that Adventism is built upon a foundation devised my man, a foundation built on manís devises is bankrupt. Erma has a right to be concerned for them, and I would even say, an obligation, it may be taken as judgmental and ìspiritual political incorrectnessî by some but it is better than being under the ruler ship of politeness and apathy. Shall we stand apathetically by while friends and family sink slowly into the quicksands of Adventism all for the fear that we may appear judgmental? There are many times when I have to return to the foundation that Christ laid, his finished work, in order to reorient myself and proceed on. This morning the Spirit seems to be saying to me to view again the foundation laid by the master builder and again it answers the question of ìHearingî. Seems to me most my Adventist friends are busy building upon the foundation of Adventism, a foundation that I fear will disappear and not be able to sustain the weight of this life or the weight of facing the unknown. It is a horrifying thought to build all ones life on a crumbling foundation, to reach for the cornerstone of Adventism or any other ìismî only to see it crumble away and sift through ones fingers just when they need it most. River | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1737 Registered: 10-2004  |
It is very dangerous to assume that someone in a false religion is saved. Which is more loving? To assume an Adventist is saved, pat them on the back and tell them you accept them as a "Christian brother/sister," tell them they are saved--and then on the Day of Judgment they are cast into eternal Hell? Or would it be more loving to let them know that they are in danger of eternal Hell--that unless they repent and trust in Jesus' blood alone to save them, they will be lost? I'll let you decide. Jeremy | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 887 Registered: 8-2004 |
Jeremy wrote: " It is very dangerous to assume that someone in a false religion is saved." I thoroughly agree. I do think it is possible to be saved even while not yet freed from a false religion. Jesus does not leave us there though. He draws us out. Mary |
