| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 567 Registered: 9-2006  |
This is an article one of my Christian friends wrote and I ask her if I could share it. She gave me her permission. I thought you all might find it an interesting article as some have come out of the belief in the Adventist state of the dead. I thought of this particular Adventist belief when I read the article. River ************************************************** Revelation 6:9-11 ìWhen (the Lamb) opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, ëHow long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?í Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.î I offer here twenty-one brief observations concerning this passage: When these people died on Earth, they relocated to Heaven (v.9). These people in Heaven were the same ones killed for Christ while on Earth (v. 9). This demonstrates direct continuity between our identity on Earth and our identity in Heaven. The martyrsí personal history extends directly back to their lives on Earth. Those in the intermediate Heaven are not different people, they are the same people relocated ñ ìrighteous men made perfectî (Hebrews 12:23). People in Heaven will be remembered for their lives on Earth. These were known and identified as ones slain ìbecause of Ö the testimony they had maintainedî (v. 9). ìThey called outî (v. 10) means they are able to express themselves audibly. This could suggest they exist in physical form, with vocal cords or other tangible means to express themselves. People in the intermediate Heaven can raise their voices (v. 10). This indicates they are rational, communicative, and emotional ñ even passionate ñ beings, like people on Earth. They called out in ìa loud voice,î not ìloud voices.î Individuals speaking with one voice indicate that Heaven is a place of unity and shared perspective. The martyrs are fully conscious, rational, and aware of each other, God, and the situation on Earth. They ask God to intervene on Earth and to act on their behalf; ìHow long Ö until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?î (v. 10). Those in Heaven are free to ask God questions, which means they have an audience with God. It also means they need to learn. In Heaven, people desire understanding and pursue it. People in the intermediate Heaven know whatís happening on Earth (v. 10). The martyrs know enough to realize that those who killed them have not yet been judged. Heaven dwellers have a deep concern for justice and retribution (v. 10). When we go to Heaven, we wonít adopt a passive disinterest in what happens on earth. On the contrary, our concerns will be more passionate and our thirst of justice greater. Neither God nor we will be satisfied until his enemies are judged, our bodies raised, sin and Satan defeated, Earth restored, and Christ exalted over all. The martyrs in Heaven clearly remember their lives on Earth (v. 10). They even remember that they were murdered. The martyrs in Heaven pray for judgment on their persecutors who are still at work hurting others. They are acting in solidarity with, and in effect interceding for, the suffering saints on Earth. This suggests that saints in Heaven are both seeing and praying for saints on Earth. Those in Heaven see Godís attributes (ìSovereign Ö holy and trueî) in a way that makes his judgment of sin more understandable. Those in Heaven are distinct individuals: ìThen each of them was given a white robeî (v. 11). There isnít one merged identity that obliterates uniqueness, but a distinct ìeach of themî The martyrsí wearing white robes suggests the possibility of actual physical forms, because disembodied spirits presumably donít wear robes. The robes may well have symbolic meaning, but it doesnít mean they couldnít also be physical. The martyrs appear to have physical forms that John could actually see. God answers their question (v. 11), indicating communication and process in Heaven. It also demonstrates that we wonít know everything in Heaven ñ if we did, we would have no questions. The martyrs knew more after God answered their question than before they asked it. There is learning in the present Heaven. God promises to fulfill the martyrsí requests, but says they will have to ìwait a little longerî (v. 11). Those in the intermediate Heaven live in anticipation of the future fulfillment of Godís promises. Unlike the eternal Heaven ñ where there will be no more sin, Curse, or suffering on the New Earth (Revelation 21:4) ñ the present Heaven coexists with and watches over an Earth under sin, the Curse, and suffering. There is time in the intermediate Heaven (vv. 10-11). The white-robed martyrs ask God a time-dependent question: ìHow long, Sovereign Lord Ö until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?î (v. 10). They are aware of timeís passing and are eager for the coming day of the Lordís judgment. God answers that they must ìwait a little longerî until certain events transpire on Earth. Waiting requires the passing of time. The people of God in Heaven have a strong familial connection with those on Earth, who are called their ìfellow servants and brothersî (v. 11). We share the same Father, ìfrom whom every family in heaven and on earth is namedî (Ephesians 3:15 ESV). There is not a wall of separation within the bride of Christ. We are one family with those whoíve gone to Heaven ahead of us. After we go the Heaven, weíll still be one family with those yet on Earth. These verses demonstrate a vital connection between the events and people in Heaven and the events and people on Earth. Our sovereign God knows down to the last detail all that is happening and will happen on Earth (v. 11), including every drop of blood shed and every bit of suffering undergone by his children. Voice of the Martyrs estimates that more than 150,000 people die for Christ each year, an average of more than four hundred per day. God knows the name and story of each one. He knows exactly how many martyrs there will be, and he is prepared to return and set up His Kingdom when the final martyr dies. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3454 Registered: 3-2004  |
I have never heard or read this verse done this way. Thanks for sharing it. It gives me a lot to think about. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5514 Registered: 12-2003  |
River, this article reminds me of something Elizabeth Inrig told us in Bible study one Monday evening as an aside. About 20 years ago when her mother died of breast cancer, her first thought/words were, "Who will pray for our children now?" She said Gary responded immediately and firmlyóalmost like he was in "correcting" modeó"Elizabeth, people are not more stupid when they are dead." I have pondered that my own dad is likely praying for meóand now he can pray accurately and within God's will because he is there in Christ. He doesn't have to see me and converse with me to know how to pray for me. Actually, we don't have to see or converse with each other to pray for each other, either. While it's a good thing to know how we can pray for people according to what's going on in their lives, we can pray Scripture for them without knowing any details. Think of praying these passages for those you care about: Ephesians 1:17 Ephesians 3:16-19 Colossians 1:9-12 Philippians 1:9-11 Colossians 4:2-6 Et cetera. Thankful for Jesus, Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 570 Registered: 9-2006 |
Elizabeth, people are not more stupid when they are dead." That is a good one Colleen; I will try to remember that one. Years ago I worried excessively about deaths journey, I was in my bedroom praying and it was heavily on my mind, all of a sudden the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said ìDo you remember when you were a child and you would jump across a small stream in one leap?î I answered ìYes Lord I rememberî and he said ì It will be like that, do not worry I will come and get you and take you acrossî. Does this sound like hog wash? All I know is that it relieved my worry about deaths journey from then on. I believe in my heart that, yes this body will die but Jesus will come and get the true me like he said and I believe it was him that said it. River | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 521 Registered: 5-2002 |
Who was it that said, "I'm not afraid of death. It's the dying part that scares me!"? I think that's the proper perspective for a Christian. Nobody wants to suffer, but death is nothing to be afraid of. It is better to be absent from the body and present wiith the Lord. | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 203 Registered: 1-2004  |
Some Christians weren't a bit afraid to suffer, it seems; look at this quote from Ignatius of Antioch in around 107 A.D.; "From Syria to Rome I am fighting with wild beasts by land and sea, night and day, bound to ten leopards--that is, a company of soldiers--and when they are treated well they become worse. I become more of a disciple because of their mistreatment of me, but not by this am I justified. I would enjoy the beasts that have been prepared for me, and I pray that they may be found prompt for me; I will even coax them to consume me promptly--not as in the cases of some whom they were afraid to touch. Even if they are unwilling, I will force them. Indulge me; I know what is to my advantage; now I am beginning to be a disciple. May nothing visible or invisible be jealous of my attaining to Jesus Christ. Fire and cross, packs of wild beasts, cuttings, renderings. crushings of bones, mangling of limbs, grinding of my whole body, wicked torture of the devil--let them come upon me if only I may attain to Jesus Christ." There's a hardcore Christian! Ignatius was the second bishop of Antioch in Syria, probably part of the church there from it's beginnings. Jeremiah |
