| Author | Message | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 518 Registered: 5-2002 |
After reading Ellen's letters to her children in another thread, I thought it might be interesting to review the diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder from the DSM IV-TR published in 2000 by the American Psychiatric Association. "A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following: (1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggertes achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) (2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love (3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) (4) requires excessive admiration (5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations (6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends (7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others (8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her (9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1554 Registered: 7-2003 |
Freeatlast, how timely you should post that. Just last week, I finished a book call "The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists". It was an excellent book about the encounters I've had with one in particular, like reading my lifestory at times. But there was a section on group narcissism, which I had wanted to post, but hadn't gotten around to it. See how these sound to you: quote from pages 159-161: "The following dynamics are universally shared by groups of people developing severe narcissistic tendencies. These tendencies in turn foster an attitude of righteous justification for the destructive and domineering behaviors towards other groups or nations. * Child rearing practices that emphasize rigid conformity and unquestioning obedience to the beliefs of the parents. * Over-emphasis on conformity and an intolerance of diversity in society at large. * Grandiose ideology -- self-righteousnesss of one's beliefs as superior over others. * Tendencies towards paranoia (i.e. censorship of opposing opinions). * An inability to engage in rational dialogue that acknowledges the rights of others. * Over simplistic thinking: all or nothing, black or white thinking. When we add in social chaos and a history of demoralization due to the existence of war and/or economic depression (as we see in Germany following World War I and Afghanistan following twenty years of war), and the ideal set of conditions exists for the malignant narcissist to rise to power. ..... Toxic narcissism exists in the shadows, often remaining invisible until revealed by the pain it causes others. If we are to prevent these dangers, we must become more psychologically sophisticated, working through our own narcissistic tendencies and proactively drawing the line on abusive tendencies in other individuals, groups and potential world leaders." ------ The book spends the bulk of its time talking about individuals, but this chapter was about how a narcissist can rise to power like Hitler or Hussein. I took parallels to the great disappointment and how that little group found 'meaning' by the supposed vision that created the IJ and how EGWs endorsement helped bolster not only the vision, but herself as a leader of the group. One of the most telling things to me in learning about narcissism was the statement that often the most tell tale sign is the destruction that lies behind these people as they pass through their lives. As long as they get something from them, they're supported and treated well...but disagree? Once, twice, publically...whatever the tolerance is and you are no longer merely disagreeataive about an issue, but you become bad completely. Read how EGW suddenly had visions about people and how they'd become tools of Satan following their disagreement. Not only were they misguided because of their 'erroneous' belief or challenge, they were now the enemy in total because of this change. She discredited people who had the courage to disagree with her, even if it was in private. Not only do I think EGW fits the criteria of a narcissist, but her followers become at risk for becoming narcisstic themselves as they seek to follow her. If they don't, certainly their children do as they suffer the wounds inflicted by their parents trying to follow such rigidity. I'm not an expert in this field, but I know my ex is a narcissist. When I read the characteristics of the group narcissism, I instantly thought of adventism. It's fascinating validation that someone else sees the similarity as well. | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 259 Registered: 2-2006 |
Thanks for posting on this, Freeatlast and Melissa. My call--NPD! When I learned about it, for surviving other people in my life, a few years ago, EGW popped into my head full front and center, on stage. The way I grew up in Adventism did too. We can't change others, but we can change ourselves and our responses. There are many good links on this subject for knowledge and support; just Google. Cathy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5436 Registered: 12-2003  |
Very interesting, Freeatlast and Melissa. I certainly see parallelsóI'm especially struck by the "hiddenness" of narcissism until the damage it causes in those under the power of the narcissist begins to show. Also, the fact of children being rigidly trained so as to protect the parents' public image within the group rings a bell as well. Interesting! Colleen | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 129 Registered: 10-2005 |
It always bothered me her counsel to child rearing but often left her childern in the care of others while for extened periods of time,and then sent them little guilt letters along the way | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 997 Registered: 4-2000  |
Ellen White had three funerals (one at Elmshaven, one at a campmeeting, and then at the Battle Creek Tabernacle) plus a delayed burial of 33 days. The mourners and newspaper journalists at her graveside were deceived into thinking she was actually buried when they lowered her casket into the grave and even threw some dirt on it symbolically. Here are some excerpts from an email I received from William Fagal, Associate Director of the White Estate, on February 20, 2007: "The grave was open on that Sabbath afternoon when the casket was taken to the cemetery. I think there are eyewitness accounts that say it was lowered into the grave that afternoon and some dirt thrown in on it. But it was Sabbath, and for that reason I would not be surprised if the grave was not actually closed at that time, but some dirt was symbolically thrown into the opening. There are cemetery records (I am told) to substantiate the holding of the casket in a vault until the date I gave you for the burial, and there are also written references to this in the White family...As I mentioned to before, I do not know why final interment was delayed...Yes, James White's funeral also was on Sabbath, in the afternoon, and he was buried the same day." Arthur White, the grandson of Ellen White, used to deny that Ellen White had a delayed burial until he read the following letter written by James Edson White to W. C. White dated October 15, 1915: "There were some matters mentioned in your letter of September 17 which I have not answered. You asked in regard to mother's burial. I think I explained this to you fully, stating that we went to the grounds about three weeks after the funeral and we saw her placed in the grave that had been prepared for her. Of course her face had changed considerably, and yet she was preserved as well as I could expect. When we went to the cemetery Sister Israel took me over in her auto, and we were glad to meet Mr. and Mrs. R. C. Gardner, Mrs. E. B. Jones, and Mrs. L. V. Barton. They are all our people and happened to be at the grave just at the time the change was made from the vault to the grave. Everything went off smoothly and occupied but little time." Interestingly, Mrs. E. B. Jones was at the cemetery when Ellen White was taken out of the vault and placed in the grave. E. B. Jones later authored the book, "Forty Bible Supported Reasons Why You Should Not Be A Seventh-day Adventist." It is also interesting that James Edson White looked at his mother's decaying body 33 days after her funeral. Perhaps he was hoping she that had already been miraculously translated (smile). It is noteworthy that Arthur White did not give the date of his grandmother's burial in his book, "The Later Elmshaven Years." Obviously, he considered the delayed burial of his grandmother as a negative factor. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Cforrester Registered user Username: Cforrester Post Number: 72 Registered: 7-2004 |
MSNBC article: College students think they're so special | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5456 Registered: 12-2003 |
Wow, Cforresterówhat an interesting article. It totally describes what I observed during my five years teaching high school English from 1999-2004 at a Christian high school, no less. The self-centeredness and entitlement rampant among the kids that are, today, mostly college-aged, was astonishing. It was more pronounced than it had been when I taught in the late 70s and even in the late 80s. I have such a sense of parents abdicating their authority in fear of alienating their kids. Where did that idea come from? Actually, however, it seems to me that the more people take the authority of God's word seriously in their own lives, the more seriously they take their own responsibility to exercise appropriate authority and to teach respect. The move within Christianity to downplay the foundational authority of the inerrant word of God leads to a sense of having no personal authority over those for whom we're responsible. Even Christians are buying the idea that they can't "judge" behaviors or squelch their kids' desires. Don't get me wrongóI'm not for harsh and unfeeling parenting! But respect for authority and, as Philippians 2:3-4 says, in humility considering one another as more important than ourselves are foundational truths that keep us grounded in reality instead of losing ourselves in a self-indulgent fantasy. OK, I'm stepping off my soap box...your link obviously hit a nerve in me, Cforrester! Colleen | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2007 |
I think EGW was floridly psychotic and delusional. Just think of the pain we all would have been spared if she had been committed to the State Hospital where she belonged before she had a chance to start the SDA cult. Not a few of the Millerites were committed to lunatic asylums after the "Great Disappointment" of Oct. 22, 1844. EGW should have been one of the ones that were confined to a lunatic asylum. I really think EGW was very seriously mentally ill, but that's just my humble opinion. I don't think she was "evil" I think she was simply so insane she didn't know the truth from fiction. But only God knows for sure |
