| Author | Message | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2007 |
In November I sent an email to the Ellen White Estate asking the following: There has been some information on the internet indicating that there has been some copying of other writers in Ellen Whiteís writings. Is this in fact true and if so to what extent? I would like to hear your position on this topic. Here is the reply that I received last week from a Mr. Fagal who works for the White Estate. Mrs. White freely admitted using the writings of others in preparing her own. You can find this in the introduction to one of her most widely-circulated books, The Great Controversy. She wrote, ìIn some cases where a historian has so grouped together events as to afford, in brief, a comprehensive view of the subject, or has summarized details in a convenient manner, his words have been quoted; but in some instances no specific credit has been given, since the quotations are not given for the purpose of citing that writer as authority, but because his statement affords a ready and forcible presentation of the subject. In narrating the experience and views of those carrying forward the work of reform in our own time, similar use has been made of their published works.î {GC xii} The same principle no doubt applied to other works that she prepared. Her method was in keeping with the practice of many of the best-known religious authors of her day. Bible writers also sometimes used the words of other authors. Paul comes to mind as an example. See Acts 17:28, where there are two quotations, one from Epimenides the Cretan (6th century BC) and the other from Aratus (c. 270 BC). He quotes again from Epimenides in Titus 1:12. Jude appears to quote from the non-biblical Book of Enoch in vv. 14 and 15. Inspired writers may do this to make the points that inspiration has given them. We have some resources on our web site (www.WhiteEstate.org) that address your question. Let me suggest that you go there and click on ìIssues & Answersî on the menu at the left of the home page. Then click on ìQuestions and Answers about Ellen G. White.î Next, click on the link to ìThe Plagiarism Charge.î There you will find a brief discussion and some links to further information. I recommend that you take a look at the document linked there at the end, ìThe Truth about The White Lie.î I thought you might find the reply I received from the White Estate interesting. I spent some time on their website reading some of their answers to her contradictory statements and I couldn't believe the lengths they went to to justify her teachings. Sad but true. I wrote a response back to them and shared my faith story. It will be interesting to see if they reply back again. I guess I really wanted to hear for myself where they were at with all of this and I have come away finding it even harder to understand how people can accept her teachings. Every time I would read one of her responses I would say a quick thank you to the Lord for releasing me from this stuff. Blessed | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1712 Registered: 10-2004  |
The interesting thing is that that introduction was not even in the first edition of The Great Controversy--it was added later. So that means that if someone admits (unrepentantly I might add) to being a liar and a thief, it is somehow supposed to make them less guilty? What nonsense. Jeremy | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 495 Registered: 9-2006  |
I might steal you hubcaps tonight Jeremy, after all they fit my wheels! | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2007 |
I have a question. I attended both the SDA church and the Academy in the 60's. I don't ever remember it being mentioned that there was a concern about her copying from other people. Pardon my ignorance but who blew the whistle and when did it happen? Blessed | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 978 Registered: 4-2000  |
Blessed, It started in 1976 with the publication of Dr. Ronald Numbers book, PROPHETESSS OF HEALTH. This created the first crack in my SDA armor. In 1982, Dr. Walter Rea published THE WHITE LIE that factually revealed Ellen White's extensive literary theft throughout her writings. Other great books include Sydney Cleveland's WHITE WASHED (2000) and Dirk Anderson's WHITE OUT (1999). Depending on the book, Ellen White plagiarized up to 80 percent without giving credit. Even worse, she denied ever having done it. She repeatedly prefaced stolen material with "I was shown" phrases. For comprehensive details, simply log unto: www.ellenwhite.org. When the painful revelations of THE WHITE LIE became widely known, many devotees of Ellen White cried and cried until they could weep no longer. This constituted yet another "Great Disappointment" in SDA history. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 426 Registered: 7-2005 |
Just for your entertainment, read what an SDA apologist has to say about "I was shown" here
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| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 496 Registered: 9-2006 |
The only way the Adventist support EGW is by making claims on 1st Cor. 12:8-11 as their/her source of authority, at least as far as I can tell from studying all this. The vast majority of churches today do not practice the teachings of 1st Cor. and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, neither do they (Adventist), they only glom onto that in an effort to try to support their prophetess. The vast majority of the denominations today have explained away the gifts of the Spirit as laid out in 1st Cor. 12: 8-11 and reduced them to functions as common as sulfa matches, stuff that any non-Christian or atheist or high school dropout has the ability to do such as, preaching, teaching, worship leading and a variety of other functions and got exactly what they believed for which is (zilch) in the way of gifts of the Spirit as laid out in 1st Cor. 12:8-11. Exactly what they believed for, no Holy Spirit Baptism, no tongues, no prophecy, exactly according to their faith just as the Bible says. That so reminds me of the Scripture (Mark 6:5 NIV) He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. Thatís about the extent of most evangelical churches today. Although charges of plagiarism are serious charges and she should be investigated on those charges alone since she used plagiarism in connection with all her ìI was shownsî as for myself I would not bother to dispute with Adventist on those charges alone, my dispute with her is based on the works of the Holy Spirit as laid out in 1st Corinthians and has nothing to do with plagiarism. Now who do we have here writing to you today? A Pentecostal believing ìNever has beenî, Holy roller, Holy Spirit received, a God elected to be born again drunk who has no idea of the reasons why, two to three months after the fact baptized in the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in an unknown tongue just as laid out in Acts and 1st Corinthians, having experienced the gift of prophecy first hand by and through the unction of the Holy Spirit to and for the encouragement, exhortation and edification of other persons in the body of Christ. Having been used of the Holy Spirit, in a variety of these gifts as laid out in 1st Cor. 12:-8-11 on a variety of occasions as the Holy Spirit gave occasion. I myself, judge EGWís works by what I believe to be the word of God, the Holy Bible as we know it. One who believes the Cannons, all of them as accepted by the majority of the reformed church today, to be true and factual and closed with Revelations. And as evidenced by facts laid out about her from first hand knowledge of people that knew her and heard her speak and through evidence of her writings, (believing myself to be the above qualified), can see no resemblance to the gifts of the Spirit as laid out in Acts and 1st Corinthians. Although with that said, I am thankful that the plagiarism does cause cracks in SDA armor. It needs to be cracked. Having celebrated my 66th Birthday Wednesday with the wife of my youth, with a nice trip to the beach, a motel room opening up on the miles of sandy beach, I am rested and ready to do whatever business the Lord throws my way. I am beginning to get serious about the Bible and itís contents, I have just about come to the conclusions that the word of God has to be my plumbline. I just wonder what you all think of my rather bold statements this morning, am I a burr under your saddle? A fly in the old ointment? Do I make you grind your teeth? Anybodies toes I missed stepping on? If I missed you and you honestly feel left out I will try to include you on the next go round if Colleen doesnít pull my eject button. /clipart{smile} River | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 443 Registered: 6-2006  |
What has bothered me in this issue is the quick answer and indifference I get from family members that I've asked. "Well, the laws were different back then" and "Oh, it only happened very rarely". My reply is, why is it NOT okay to break the Sabbath, but it's not a big deal to steal (# 8 commandment) and lie (#9 commandment) about it? Seriously, if you're going to own the commandments, you need to keep ALL of them. How many times does EGW have to steal, lie or make a false prophesy until they get the clue and throw her out?! Leigh Anne | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 444 Registered: 6-2006 |
BTW, HAPPY BIRTHDAY RIVER!! Our birthdays are close - I turn 40 next Thursday. Wahhh! I hope you had a wonderful day dear Friend.  Blessings! Leigh Anne | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1540 Registered: 7-2003 |
River, I have also been blessed by my former AOG association and the gifts practiced there. I was never blessed in that area and equally feel God moved me to my current church, but I know others within my church who privately speak in tongues when they pray. I doubt they'll eject you for that . | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 225 Registered: 7-2005  |
River, just so you won't feel so alone, please take a look at my story here: http://honestwitness.wordpress.com/ Click on "My Background #2," for my experience with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Honestwitness | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 979 Registered: 4-2000 |
Gabriel, Thanks for sharing those statements by Ron Graybill. The "brethern" decided to transfer him out of the White Estate shortly thereafter. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5396 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, thank you, Jackob. It's all so interesting! No, Riverówe're not ejecting you! The gift of discernment is one of the gifts of the Spiritóand He has helped you discern the truth about Ellen. I'm becoming convinced that the gift of discernment is often ignored or dismissed among those who claim the name of Jesus. I can't think of anything that draws more opposition among those with Adventist roots than calling Ellen a false prophet or attributing her "fruit" to a deceptive spirit. Almost ANYTHING is better than saying her falseness was truly spiritual. One can say she was misused, inspired in a general way in her ideas, or even that she was not a prophet and not as inspired as we thought. But let someone say she was a real false prophet, and the effect is like dropping a bomb in a room. So praise God for the gift of discernment and for the receptivity to truth that He puts in hearts! Colleen | ||
| Ikilgore Registered user Username: Ikilgore Post Number: 28 Registered: 11-2006 |
Aloha guys, Just thought I would share this. My parents work for this Adventist employer in Peoria, Illinois. They work at a huge dental office. So my dad calls me up and asks that I go and set the alarm after I get off work at the place I work at. So I get off work and wait for the construction guys to leave the dental office. They leave and its about 12:30AM and I was starting to leave when I looked at the books in the waiting room. Here is what I found: 12 EGW books and two Bibles and the usual dental books and stuff. The EGW stuff was the usual deceptive versions of her books, you know how they do it! So I went and took all the of the books and stuffed them in my dads office downstairs. I was pretty proud of myself... Anyhow, they still haven't noticed anything. Just thought I would share that with you guys. Catch you all later. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1541 Registered: 7-2003 |
That's funny! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 497 Registered: 9-2006 |
Colleen, Just kidding about the eject button. I see I pushed the forward Slash on my smiley face too but I got excuse. Ha. Leigh Anne, Thanks for the big Happy Birth day, sorry you plan on going over the hill next Thursday! But just in case I forget a big HAPPY BIRTHDAY for next Thursday. After that you can start counting backwards and be sure to say you are 40 going on 39! I pray you will receive all his blessings on that day. Melissa, Someone said on here ìGod uses everything and waste nothingî and I truly believe that statement. Where ever we are he can take what we have and use it to his glory. One thing I have learned, Pentecostal charisma is not the only game in town. Honestwitness, I truly enjoyed that link, the words filled with so much wisdom that were written there, the journey through the 60ís which I remember very well and the hippy movement of that time and the searching of the young people of that time which turned to tragedy for so many souls. Just before God reached down for me by his unexplainable miracle, I was heading in much the same direction, those were pretty wild times. Just want to tell you I was truly blessed by the Web page. River | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 81 Registered: 10-2006 |
Happy Freaking Birthday River. Congratulations- you got 10 years on me, but my party life is behind me too, well mostly. Knowing God personally is my party nowadays. Around Christmas time, I met a Pentacostal who convinced me that my jazz piano praise style was a form of speaking in tongues. You see, sometimes when reading the Word, I get so excited that I run over to the piano and start jammin' for Jesus! Welp, gotta go smoke my short ribs now.... Steve | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 427 Registered: 7-2005 |
Blessed, regarding the reply you received by Fagal, Elen White did not admitted freely that she used the writings of others to prepare her works. If she did, adventists would not be shocked when they will hear about her plagiarism. She covered it, and her angry rebukes adressed to her secretary, Fannie Bolton, reveal her true attitude. She tried to discredit Fannie and practiced character assasination, when Fannie talked about her improper use of literary sources. Above all, the passing of the ordinary works of others as inspired writings, heavenly, revelations, is an insult to God, beside the deception involved. Were also the other writers inspired? Interesting is the comment of doctor Kellog about the same admission in the introduction of Great Controversy
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| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 389 Registered: 8-2006 |
I've hardly had time to visit here lately, but wanted to say Happy Belated Birthday, River! My husband's birthday was Wednesday as well. I knew there was a reason I liked you! *grin* I'll try to catch up with the posts and reply as I can. Susan | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 428 Registered: 7-2005 |
Happy Birthday, River! Jackob |
