| Author | Message | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 446 Registered: 6-2006  |
I had an interesting and fun conversation with my hunny this morning about pork. He eats bacon and sausage now and I made a comment to him that he was becoming quite a connoisseur! Anyway, we got on the subject of pork not being an unclean meat before the Mosaic Law was put into effect. He didn't believe it, and said that "unclean" meat was always unclean, and I asked him to back that up (with the Bible only!). It's funny to me that he doesn't live AT ALL like an SDA, but he still believes in all he was taught. Now I know this is a Bible vs EGW issue. Does anyone have anything to add? Jeremy?  Leigh Anne | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 501 Registered: 9-2006  |
(Lev 11:7 KJV) And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. (Lev 11:8 KJV) Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 502 Registered: 9-2006 |
Ye shall not bug thy husband whileth he muncheth, nor hound him while he sleepth so that he not workth. 2nd River 5:16 | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 447 Registered: 6-2006 |
River, I know they didn't eat it after the exodus, I'm talking about before! Is there any evidence of anyone eating or not eating "unclean" meat before the law? Thou shalt not buggeth thy wife durringeth the night whilst she sleeps, or snorreth in her ears whilst she sleeps lest she smite thee and wacketh thee against thy brow. 1 LeighAnnidiah 2:15 | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 504 Registered: 9-2006 |
No evidence of any kind that I know of from Adam to moses and Lev. Thou shalt not whacketh thy Hubby lest he kick thee out of bed. 2nd river 5:18 | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5399 Registered: 12-2003  |
Hahaha! And when the Sabbath Day endeth, and all the provisions having been purchased at Costco hath been brought into the storehouse, 'tis good to laugh, and, having shared the jokes with thine husband, who also did laughóto laugh again. Colleen 20:8-11 OK, here are some texts: Genesis 7:2-3: "Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth." It's important to remember, though, that at this point, God had not altered man's diet from Eden, when He gave them every fruit and plant bearing seed. So whatever the purpose of seven clean animals was, there's no indication it involved food at that point. Genesis 9:1b-3: "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves alonng the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." Interestingly, when God gave mankind the animals for food, He also gave the animals fear of their hunter. Interesting how He sort-of leveled the playing field. Eat hearty! Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 450 Registered: 6-2006 |
Thanks Colleen! I guess we were both right, to an extent. Genesis 9:1-3 was one I was trying to remember. So gladdeth I haveth thee! Leigh Anne | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 451 Registered: 6-2006 |
BTW River, Thy Husband shall NOT leaveth the seat of the throne up lest his wife falleth in and wetteth her hindquarters. This shall bring a firey wrath from the wife upon the husband and cause much anguish and gnashing of teeth. LeighAnnemiah 15:67 | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 507 Registered: 9-2006 |
It only took me 44 years to learn that, ladies I tell you I am a really fast learner.......... Now she gripes at me for leaving my wash cloth in the shower........Said she was going to charge me a quarter for every time I left it, I am up to 4 1/2 as of now. | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 48 Registered: 2-2005 |
Wo be unto thee River. You River, will be reduced to mere Trickle and thy shower head will spurtith only cold water. bobalou the revelator 6:66 | ||
| Qweary Registered user Username: Qweary Post Number: 26 Registered: 3-2004 |
River, I don't get the 1/2 of "up to 4 1/2 as of now." What is the antecedent? --Washcloth or quarter? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 508 Registered: 9-2006 |
She says I owe her $4.50 cents as of yesterday. Ha. I tried to charge her for something and she said "Don't even think about it!" | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 983 Registered: 4-2000  |
Grace Alone, The clean and unclean listing for animals that entered Noah's ark was for sacrificial purposes after the flood subsided (see Gen. 9:20). The clean animals entered the ark in SEVENS, not TWOS. For example, if there had been only two clean animals, and one was sacrificed or eaten, the animal would become extinct shortly. Therefore, God had greater numbers of the clean animals and birds in the ark to provide both food and burnt offerings. Also, the "firstlings of his flock" (Gen. 4:4) that Abel sacrificed were undoubtedly clean animals as well. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 984 Registered: 4-2000 |
Grace Alone, The clean and unclean listing for animals that entered Noah's ark was for sacrificial purposes after the flood subsided (see Gen. 9:20). The clean animals entered the ark in SEVENS, not TWOS. For example, if there had been only two clean animals, and one was sacrificed or eaten, the animal would become extinct shortly. Therefore, God had greater numbers of the clean animals and birds in the ark to provide both food and burnt offerings. Also, the "firstlings of his flock" (Gen. 4:4) that Abel sacrificed were undoubtedly clean animals as well. This further confirms some commonality in God's covenants--from the Adamic to the Mosaic covenants. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 452 Registered: 6-2006 |
Thanks Dennis! That's interesting. I'm wondering, since there were clean and unclean animals, why were all the animals fit for food once the flood passed? In discussing this issue with my husband, I'm noticing that he believes the mosaic covenant was always in effect. We haven't even begun to discuss the Sabbath yet! Leigh Anne | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 985 Registered: 4-2000 |
Leigh Anne, The Bible doesn't reveal all the details, but perhaps all animals were fit for food due to the limited food choices after the Flood. What is revealed is that Noah made sacrificial burnt offerings of clean animals and birds immediately after the Deluge (Gen. 8:20). CORRECTION: I mistyped this reference as Gen. 9:20 in my post above. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 49 Registered: 2-2005 |
It is interesting that in one of my Bibles it it uses the modifier "ceremonial" before unclean in the Genesis account. Thus meaning they were not to be used for ceremonial offerings. The Genesis account plainly says that "every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you." Gen 9:3. I would presume that ol Noah would use some distinction. He probably didn't set trap for skunks and the like. One thing I have noticed from history is that pigs have been domesticated for centuries. They must have been a delicacy of the extended family of Noah. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 831 Registered: 8-2004  |
Something I found interesting when I was studying the Tithe issue was that there were separate provisions even in the law of Moses for eating things like deer, which were not used for sacrifices. Mary | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 454 Registered: 6-2006 |
Dennis, thanks. I was able to share that info with my husband this morning. He didn't say much at the time, but then this evening he thanked me for doing the research. I also shared the verses you posted, Colleen, Gen 9:1-3... My husband was glad that he had the "clean" part right, and I was glad that he could see that all animals were food for Noah and his familia. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 512 Registered: 9-2006 |
Women will never be equal to men.... Until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy. River | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1543 Registered: 7-2003 |
oops! double post.... (Message edited by melissa on February 13, 2007) | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1544 Registered: 7-2003 |
If'n that's the criteria, I'll pass.....thanks for clearin' that up. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 30 Registered: 5-2007 |
I eat pork on a regular basis. I just don't eat it in front of my wife. I recall one Friday evening we were having devotions to open the Sabbath and I read out of Romans where Paul said "As one who is in Christ, I am convinced that no food is unclean in and of itself." My son right away asked does that mean we can eat shrimp and pork. Before I could say yes my wife angrily said, "Paul didn't know what he was talking about" and made me turn to Leviticus to the section where clean and unclean foods were listed. So the SDAs will throw Paul away whenever he and EGW disagree??? At that moment it hit me as to the reason why Paul's writings are taught so little in SDA Sabbath School. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 931 Registered: 8-2004 |
"Paul didn't know what he was talking about!" Now that is a classic response! I was told as a child that the disciples didn't know any better when I asked why they ate meat. When I pressed further, I was told that Jesus only held people to 'the light they had' for that time (for example feeding the people fish and bread because that was their common meal), but that now we have more light. As I write that I'm surprised to see how blasphemous this idea is. As if God sent Jesus, and then at the end times sent 'more light'! Jesus IS the light of the world. How can anyone expect to add to that? As for Paul, his sayings are 'hard to understand' anytime they contradict SDA teaching. . . and therefore can, at least in some people's understanding, be bent or ignored to suit SDA ideas. | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 31 Registered: 5-2007 |
I SO Agree. Jesus IS the light of the world. NOTHING MORE is needed. Jesus is EVERYTHING. Also don't these SDAs that try to push vegetarianism/vegansim on others under stand that Jesus Himself ate meat. As a Jew when he was on this Earth he ate the Passover Lamb and he ate fish. In fact after the Resurrection, Jesus not only helped the disciples catch a huge mess of fish he helped them eat the fish. My son gets told all the time by vegan classmates at his SDA school that God is going to destroy him for eating meat. I told my son just tell them the Bible shows where Jesus ate meat. That should shut them up, one would think. HOW can these SDAs say that someting Jesus Himself did(meat eating) is wrong. Jesus NEVER sinned and COULDN'T sin He is GOD. | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 104 Registered: 8-2005 |
The funny thing to me is Paul, being a Pharisee of the Pharisee's, could have probably quoted Leviticus completely from memory! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5872 Registered: 12-2003 |
Interesting point, Brian. Yes, Paul could certainly have referred to Leviticus if it were important for Christians to observe. Colleen |
