| Author | Message | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 441 Registered: 11-2004 |
Do you believe as a Christian you are perfect? If so, what about you do you believe is perfect? If not, when do you think you will be perfect? | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 503 Registered: 5-2002 |
I am perfect by faith. What is perfect about me is the Lamb of God in Whom I have placed my faith. I will be like Him when I see Him face to face. | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 90 Registered: 1-2006  |
I think that as long as 1 John 1:8 or the last verses of Hebrews 11 are in effect I will not be able to say I am perfect. Here's a couple paragraphs I wrote to a friend about perfection, part of a larger letter. I was writing to a young man who was struggling with Adventism, the quotes are from Ellen White. I've lost my EGW CD so I can't give the references. ěWhen it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus accepts this disposition and effort as manís best service, and He makes up for the deficiency with His own divine merit.î This teaches that Christís merit (or righteousness) is added to our obedience to make up the deficiency. ěChrist has given us no assurance that to attain perfection of character is an easy matter. . . A noble character is earned through the merits and grace of Christ. It is formed by hard, stern battle with self. Conflict after conflict must be waged against hereditary tendencies. We shall have to criticize ourselves closely, and allow not one unfavorable trait to remain uncorrected.î This teaches that itís not easy to attain perfection, but you can earn a noble character through Christís help. ěLet no one say, I cannot remedy my defects of character. If you come to this decision, you will certainly fail of obtaining everlasting life. The impossibility lies in your own will. If you will not, then you cannot overcome. The real difficulty arises from the corruption of an unsanctified heart, and an unwillingness to submit to the control of God.î This teaches that if you fail to remedy defects in your character 1) itís your fault, and 2) and you will fail to obtain everlasting life. If this is true, itís too bad for the saints in Hebrews 11ótheyíre lost. Approximately 15 times, the same author made statements along the lines that Jesus died to give us a second chance to keep the law perfectly and that time is running short and that probation is soon to close and that, well, we better get on with living perfectly before itís too late and we are eternally lost. Thank God we're forgiven. Thank God that in the old sanctuary service it was the lamb that was examined to make sure it was perfect, not the sinner, who had to repeatedly and continually throughout his life bring such sacrifices. I don't post this to make light of these statements. Enough people have suffered already. Perfection is serious business for those planning on going through an investigative judgment without the benefit of a Mediator. Bob | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 422 Registered: 9-2006  |
I am not perfect in my flesh, Jesus gave me his perfection, his robe of righteousness covers me. he took my sins on himself at the cross so that I might be free from sin. He took my punishment so that I would not be punished, he died so that I might live, yet my flesh will die for it's imperfections I will not see the second death. (Rom 7:24 KJV) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (Rom 7:25 KJV) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Rom 8:1 KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Rom 8:2 KJV) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (Rom 8:3 KJV) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (Rom 8:4 KJV) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. No man can earn salvation nor can his flesh become perfect. my spirit has been made perfect through Jesus Christ my savior but this body shall die because of the sin in it. What God told Adam. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 423 Registered: 9-2006 |
Bob, I suspect those Adventist who stand before God in their own perfection will stand before him in moldy, filthy tattered rags because they did not accept the free gift offered and his very gaze upon the filth of their own righteousness will sweep them into hell. who can stand before such a Holy one accept he be covered by his Son? who could bear up under the blast of his breath who flung worlds into existence unless by his own spotless garment? River | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 91 Registered: 1-2006 |
River Thank you for sharing such fine words from Romans. No kidding! It reminds me of Cain, who thought he could bring his own offering, or the man who came to the King's feast wearing his own clothes instead of the free robe. I'm sure you recall the leopard in Jeremiah 13:23 who thought he could get rid of his spots through will power! The last few verses of Col 2 also remind us of the futility of trying to make ourselves perfect in the flesh. But, praise God, in Col 2:10 we are complete in Him. Phil 1:6 He will complete the good work he has begun in us. . . It's Jesus who cleanses the temple! Bob | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 424 Registered: 9-2006 |
The Bible paints a beautiful picture of this right at the beginning of Genesis (Gen 3:21 KJV) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. That right there looks forward to Jesus, that is a picture of what I refer to as the ěRobeî of righteousness furnished by God himself. In the very beginning God furnished the ěclothingî, it had to be this way. God furnished the sacrifice for Abraham, another picture. John said ěBehold the Lamb of Godî those deeply profound words, what John was saying is ěThis is the long awaited one, he will save usî John said he wasnít even worthy to unlatch his shoes, John knew! Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, that Lamb without spot or blemish, took our sin, yours and mine upon himself. Look upon the suffering Lamb on the cross, there is your ěperfectionî all we did was lay the whip to his back. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, paid his all, suffered and died, the accepted one of God and he will not give his glory to EGW, IJ, you, me or anyone else. Every knee shall bow before him and every tongue will confess him as Lord. I owed a debt I could not pay, he paid a debt he did not owe. Thereís your perfection. Glory to the Lamb of God! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 425 Registered: 9-2006 |
The Bible paints a beautiful picture of this right at the beginning of Genesis (Gen 3:21 KJV) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. That right there looks forward to Jesus, that is a picture of what I refer to as the ěRobeî of righteousness furnished by God himself. In the very beginning God furnished the ěclothingî, it had to be this way. God furnished the sacrifice for Abraham, another picture. John said ěBehold the Lamb of Godî those deeply profound words, what John was saying is ěThis is the long awaited one, he will save usî John said he wasnít even worthy to unlatch his shoes, John knew! Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, that Lamb without spot or blemish, took our sin, yours and mine upon himself. Look upon the suffering Lamb on the cross, there is your ěperfectionî all we did was lay the whip to his back. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, paid his all, suffered and died, the accepted one of God and he will not give his glory to EGW, IJ, you, me or anyone else. Every knee shall bow before him and every tongue will confess him as Lord. I owed a debt I could not pay, he paid a debt he did not owe. Thereís your perfection. Glory to the Lamb of God! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 426 Registered: 9-2006 |
Long as Iím on a preaching jag I mights well preach about the flesh a little, you can see the flesh speaking in EGWís writings. EGW flesh says ěDo this and you shall liveî Gods says ěLook upon my Son and you shall liveî. The flesh wants to save self. The flesh says îGod started it but ěIî will finish it.î Just this morning one of my Adventist friends said this ěI am the first one to admit there are other Christians in other churchesî ěeven though they do not follow some of ěthe practicesî and he went on to say ěBut when the persecution comes they will turn away from ěthe wayî and went on blabbering about when the ěspirit of Christ comesî and just blabbered himself out finally, always looking for the ěpersecutionî to finally prove that they were right all along, sometimes he just has to make a quote from ěA dear lady name of Ellen G. Whiteî, I get that thrown into the mix about every other day but this morning we were discussing the scripture in Matthew 13:46 and I latched onto that and I said ěJesus is that pearl of great priceî ěOutside of his righteousness we have noneî so I get a word in for Jesus every once in a while, but I tell you when I hear these guyís speak it sound like words out of a pigs snout. Ok, Iím done. River | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 442 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thank you for all your thoughts!! I think perfection can be looked at two ways: how we act and who we are. In Christ we have His perfection, but our actions are not perfect. Do our imperfect actions decrease His perfection in us? Does knowing how to act perfectly (i.e. rules to follow) increase how perfect we act or does knowing how He has made us perfect through His Son change our actions? Rules can change the outward actions but sin comes from the heart. I am reminded of the text that says "by beholding we become changed". He changes me from the inside out. Rules attempt to change a person from the outside in and often fall short. By learning of Him and understanding more about Him and what He did for us creates change and makes us more like Him. As a Christian can I say I'm perfect? Yes and no. In Him I am perfect and when God looks at me He sees the perfect Lamb. However, my actions are not perfect. I am still being changed. In God's eyes I am perfect, but in man's eyes I am far from that. Praise God for the perfect Lamb!! | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 714 Registered: 7-2004  |
I think how we are being changed is a mystery and the work of God in us. Learning and understanding just doesn't account for all of it. | ||
| Rejoyce719 Registered user Username: Rejoyce719 Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2007 |
All of your comments blessed me today. I can remember all my life worrying about the non-existent "Book of Deeds" EGW claims we will be judged by. I worried that I would forget to repent of one thing written against me. I now have faith in the grace of Jesus Christ and that His righteousness is all that I need. | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 111 Registered: 8-2005 |
River, This pretty much sums up the entire problem with Seventh-day Adventism: EGW flesh says ěDo this and you shall liveî Gods says ěLook upon my Son and you shall liveî. Soemtimes the simplest statements are the most profound... InSearchOf |
