| Author | Message | ||
| Brian4 Registered user Username: Brian4 Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2006 |
http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org From our first church in America, founded in Newport, Rhode Island, in 1671, until today, Seventh Day Baptists have been a Christ-centered, Bible believing people with traditional family values. http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/images/7DB/Linda/Letter%20to%20the%20Baptists.htm http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/7DB/Historical_Resources_EN.asp?SnID=251317584 http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/7DB/A_Choosing_People_EN.asp?SnID=251317584 The question I have is are these historical records and others you will find, if you dig for them, evidence of some of the original Protestants keeping Sabbath and do they speak to your heart today? I am almost convinced that Adventism is an offshoot of the SDB. The thing is EGW could have borrowed some of their stuff and twisted it to make it her own. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments after reading some SDB history? | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 301 Registered: 8-2006 |
Brian, it's my understanding that a Seventh-Day Baptist, Rachael Oakes, brought her view to Joseph Bates, who then brought it to the early Adventists. EGW endorsed it, and there were many revisions, especially regarding the time of the beginning of Sabbath, the first being midnight, if I recall correctly. Then EGW took off with the Sabbath and "saw" the ark of God in heaven with a special light around the 4th commandment. This is where the subsequent teaching about the end time issues over Saturday/Sunday came about. I have nothing against keeping Sabbath, but I do not agree with what SDA's have morphed that into. Susan | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 302 Registered: 8-2006 |
Brian, in glancing over this first letter, here is what I disagree with about the view that Sabbath should be observed on Saturday: ------------------------------------------ First, we address those of you who acknowledge the obligation of a Sabbath, but change the day of its celebration from the seventh to the first day of the week. ------------------------------------------- This is what I disagree with in covenant theology as well. I do not believe that the 7th day obligation in the Old Covenant was translated to the 1st day obligation in the New Covenant. To my understanding of what the bible teaches, the New Covenant shows that Jesus is our Sabbath rest, not a day of any kind, which was a shadow of our true rest from trying to earn our own salvation outside of the righteousness "apart from the law" that Jesus provides. I no more agree that you must keep Saturday as an obligation as I do that you must keep Sunday. Susan | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 490 Registered: 5-2002 |
Susans, I have nothing against keeping Sabbath either. What I have something against is those who claim that they actually keep Sabbath, be it on Saturday OR Sunday. Sinful flesh can never keep ANYTHING holy. That is why the whole SDA argument over Saturday vs. Sunday is academic. They don't keep Saturday holy, and "Sundaykeepers" don't keep Sunday holy. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 367 Registered: 6-2006  |
The question of keeping Sabbath reminds me of when I first met my husband and visited the SDA church with him. As I was introduced to people there many would smile enthusiastically and say "Oh, you're the Sunday keeper!" I was 17 and thought it was odd, but I thought they were being friendly. I could never understand it, because as a lifelong protestant, keeping a day was never an issue. It wasn't until my boyfriend's parents realized that we weren't going to break up that they started to hammer me on the Sabbath. I recently found this little article on Ariel.org about keeping Sabbath/Sunday. The answer is given by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, a Christian Jew. Question: As believers, are we commanded to gather for worship on the Sabbath or on Sunday? When did Sunday become a day of worship? Answer: If you look up every passage on the Sabbath in the Mosaic Law, the one thing you will not find is Moses commanding the people to gather together for corporate worship on the Sabbath day. What Moses did tell people to do is to stay home and rest on the Sabbath day. In fact, it was forbidden to travel more than a Sabbath dayís journey from your home, which was roughly one kilometer (.62 miles). The only ones commanded to meet regularly for corporate worship on the Sabbath day was the priesthood, and that was for the purpose of offering special Passover blood sacrifices. However, for the rest of the Jewish people, they were simply to stay at home and rest. Corporate worship was required only three times a year: Passover (Pesach), Feast of Weeks (Shavuot), and Tabernacles (Sukkoth). Therefore, the Sabbath was simply a day of rest and staying home. Also, there is not a command to have corporate worship on Sunday either. That was the practice of the early church as early as Acts 20:7. That is an example of what they chose to do but no biblical command was given to follow it. The fact is in the Mosaic Law the Sabbath was strictly a day of rest and to stay home, and for that reason Jewish believers had their corporate worship on Saturday night (which is already the first day of the week), in order to worship with fellow believers. Gentiles also met on the first of the week but it was Sunday morning. Neither one was commanded so they both are equal options. What the Bible commands is that believers gather together regularly for corporate worship but the day of the week is strictly optional. My messianic congregation chooses to meet on Saturday afternoon, other groups meet on Friday night and other groups meet on Sunday and all of these are valid options. One is not more biblical than the other. That is why it is so important to ėrightly divide the word of truth.î The Bible definitely provides a valid roadmap, but we have to make sure what commandments are applicable to what group of people. The Mosaic Law was given to Jewish people only, and only until Messiah died. The commandments you are obligated to obey today are the commandments of the Law of the Messiah and that is the law code you need to learn to follow and not the law code that was intended for different people for a different period of time. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 368 Registered: 6-2006 |
(Sorry Brian, didn't mean to run the thread off of the SDB subject!) | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 456 Registered: 4-2006  |
"Also, there is not a command to have corporate worship on Sunday either. " Grace_alone Well, its my understanding that there was, from exadventist.com: SABBATARIANS ASK FOR ONE TEXT IN THE BIBLE THAT COMMANDS SUNDAY WORSHIP, HERE IT IS: LEVITICUS 23:5-11 - Look at verse 11: "'And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.'" The day after the Sabbath is Sunday. Read on specifically looking at Leviticus 23:15 - "'You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the DAY AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord.'" This is the Feast of Pentecost. It was one of the compulsory feasts of Israel. Note on the day of Pentecost, a Sunday God's people were commanded to worship. God says, "On this same day you shall make a proclamation as well; you are to have a holy convocation. You shall do no laborious work. It is to be perpetual statute in all your dwelling places throughout your generations." Leviticus 23:21. If you think this is only applying to "ceremonial" days, Leviticus 23 starts out talking about the weekly Sabbath (see Lev. 23:1-4). It is called an appointed time and a holy convocation, along with all the other feast days of Israel. No distinction is made by God between these holy days and the weekly Sabbath. He includes them as being equally holy. This would mean that under the Old Covenant the First Fruits Sunday and the Pentecost Sunday were as holy and sanctified as Saturday. In Jesus | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5206 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, and isn't it amazing that from the beginning of the nation of Israel, the feast foreshadowing the birth of the church was always held on the first day of the week? So interesting! I NEVER heard that as an Adventist... Colleen | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 308 Registered: 8-2006 |
Wow, I didn't realize that until now. Thanks, Mwh, for showing the pointing forward to the beginning of Christ's church on Pentecost Sunday. Susan | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 371 Registered: 6-2006 |
Mwh, Darn it! I wish I had that information when I was getting hammered by my in-laws. Bless their hearts. ;) Leigh Anne | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 311 Registered: 8-2006 |
Yes, Leigh Anne! I knew Pentecost was a Sunday and marked the beginning of the Christian church, but for some reason I never as an Adventist saw that Sunday was as holy as Sabbath at certain times. You can bet I've marked this, though.  Susan | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 203 Registered: 7-2005  |
MWH, thank you so much for sharing this quote from exadventist.com about the text that commands Sunday worship. When I think of all those Revelation seminars I sat through, where the evangelist asked for someone to show him a text and he'd pay them $1,000...I really missed an opportunity to make some money! This is mind boggling. One can read the Bible and not realize what one is reading, can't one? I'm just as hazy-headed as the next person, so I can't throw any stones. How could I have missed this? Oh well, I've just spent the last hour making a calendar with 7 columns and 9 rows so I could map out this passage and get a visual picture of what it really says. I'm totally blown away! Thanks again for opening my mind! Honestwitness | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 204 Registered: 7-2005 |
In case anyone wants to see it, I've uploaded to my new blog the calendar mentioned in my previous post: http://honestwitness.wordpress.com/files/2007/01/leviticus-23-sabbath-calendar.pdf I took down my web site and put most of the material on this blog. (It's free!) Honestwitness | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 332 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thanks, Honest Witness. I've printed out your calendar! And, I love the look of your new blog...I especially like the comment you posted here that's on the front page. Thank you for your testimony. Susan |
