| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 316 Registered: 9-2006  |
I was wondering if anyone could tell me the reasoning behind this thinking. The sda go by the investigative judgment and the ten cís. Now each one would have to have broken at least one of the ten cís in their lifetime so even if they overcome in the future, where do they pick up forgiveness for past discrepancies? If Jesus forgives them for past discrepancies, then why do they think he will not forgive them future discrepancies? This stuff just makes my head swim.  river | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 317 Registered: 9-2006 |
Question number two. I heard a Pentecostal minister say this. "I don't believe in Eternal security but I don't believe in Eternal insecurity either" How would you answer that. When I heard that one I about fell off in the floor. Head swimming you know. | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 293 Registered: 8-2006 |
My understanding of question 1, River, when I was an Adventist is that when Jesus forgives your sins, he has forgiven your past sins only. Then you are enabled by the Holy Spirit to keep God's law (the ten c's). If you sin, then you must confess that sin to God and then you are taken care of for that one. This is why Adventists have such fear regarding the investigative judgment. What happens if you have forgotten to confess a sin? You could be lost. This is what gave me such despair as an Adventist. I knew I could never stop sinning, and bringing shame to Jesus. The first time I left the church, it was because I thought why bother? I can't do it, even though I believed it was all true. Later, of course, I knew differently. I am not sure Adventists feel that Jesus won't forgive future sins. You just have to make sure you have confessed every one. And, another thought that just came to mind, that equates sin with actions-"sins". We are sinners because we sin. When actually, the bible teaches us the opposite. We sin because we are sinners. Being a sinner is a state of being, not of actions. Did that make sense? I'm tired.  Susan | ||
| Lrcrabtree Registered user Username: Lrcrabtree Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2007  |
I remember being taught that you can lose your salvation if you die with unforgiven sins, even after accepting Jesus and being baptized. Being the anal-retentive that I am I always envisioned this scenario: Accepted Jesus, baptized, live a perfect life just like Christ (remember, I'm just thinking out loud here) for several years. Never even have sins that need confessing and forgiving. Then getting in a car accident and using God's name in vain (1 of those 10 C's) just before I die, and not having an opportunity to confess it and get forgiveness for that one and only, last sin. If I remember my EGW correctly, I would not go to heaven, and that just isn't the kind of God that I thought God was supposed to be? This quandry always haunted me, until I just gave up and quit religion altogether for over 30 years. Having gotten away from the cultic adventism (yes I used the word), I am now much more confident in my salvation, and it's sooooo much easier to live a Christ-like life (at least try to). Larry | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 295 Registered: 8-2006 |
Hey Larry! Actually I once heard Jimmy Swaggart say the same thing on his television show (about saying a curse word just before you died in a car accident) and he said you wouldn't be saved either. I know this is not exclusive to Adventism. Perhaps as a Pentecostal, River, you have heard some people say that as well? Susan | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1660 Registered: 10-2004  |
Also, besides the confessing each sin (and EGW says that even forgotten sins will condemn you), you also have to stop sinning at some point in your life (or as some SDAs say--who try to water it down and make it easier--you have to keep the 10 Cs to some lesser degree than sinlessness. What that standard is varies and who really can say?). Jeremy | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 318 Registered: 9-2006 |
Yup, both of you answered question number 1, now doesn't the statement made in number 1 sound exactly like number two? seem to me like they both got the same problem. I,m so thankful you did get out of that misery Larry. I'm a non-Adventist by the way but I deal with Adventist Daily, eerily, I get the same feelings as former-Adventist in many ways and I do understand what you said to me. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 319 Registered: 9-2006 |
Yup, some Pentecostals are of the infernal insecurity type, not all by a long shot, just the sick ones. Heh Heh. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 320 Registered: 9-2006 |
I have heard some say "We got to get cleaned up and lift up Holy hands to the Lord, my answer is "why don't you get saved?" and with his righteousness hold up Holy hands, his hands? | ||
| Brian4 Registered user Username: Brian4 Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2006 |
From the moment I believed and asked Christ into my heart to be my personal Savior and Lord all my sins were forgiven; past, present and yes future. Having said that, I know that I do not have a license to sin although I still have a sin nature or propensity to sin. In spite of 12 years of belonging to an SDA Church, I have never once given up on what I know to be the truth. That is to know who I believe in and He is able to present me faultless before the Father because I trust in His perfection on my behalf. He who has begun a good work in you will finish (perform) it until the day when he comes. Praise God for the truth of His word and the leading and teaching of the Holy Spirit who lives in us. I was a Deacon, then Head Deacon and then an Elder and Sabbath School Teacher and gave many sermons. My last one was just a little over a year ago. I preached the truth to the best of my ability as I was lead by the Holy Spirit. In my last sermon, I told the breatheren we must compleatly trust the word of God and many need to repent for blindly following the writings and teachings of EGW. Shortly after that I was told by the Head Elder after an Elders meeting, to which I was not invited, I would no longer be needed as an Elder and my platform duties were suspended. Not too long after that I resigned my membership as an SDA. Its been a very blessed year, although I do miss teaching, learning and preaching. The just shall live by faith and faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. God sees our hearts knows our thoughts and will keep his promise to save us. Keeping the faith and the testimony of Jesus, Brian | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 364 Registered: 6-2006  |
Growing up in an area heavily populated by kids who attended Catholic church, I heard that "if you say a bad word or God's name in vain just before you die you're lost" theory often. I think the difference in the SDA church is that is that it actually has it's own unique doctrine (IJ) to back up the theory. Convenient... Brian, you're a brave and faithful servant. I'm sure God used you to plant many seeds during that sermon that will grow and be fruitful.  Leigh Anne | ||
| Brian4 Registered user Username: Brian4 Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2006 |
Thank you, Leigh Anne. | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 258 Registered: 4-2005  |
One point not being mentioned here is that (1) if a person has been regenerated in Christ Jesus, (2) is living the life of union by faith, and (3) the fruits of His Spirit being manifest in your growth in grace and in a knowledge of Him in His Word (Jn 15),it is very likely that any old habits of swearing will have faded long ago anyway. And besides you are already saved! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5203 Registered: 12-2003  |
Good point, Jess! Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 321 Registered: 9-2006 |
Brian said: Its been a very blessed year, although I do miss teaching, learning and preaching. Brian, I, of course, am not advising but I want to tell you how it has been with myself in hopes that it will ìRing a bellî and be of encouragement to you, after many years it seems like the Lord has started me back off at square one. I realized that for me, my ministry starts when I get up of a morning, I laid my past ministry aside, and I became (becoming?) a ìnowî person in Christ and it seems to bare (bear?) up with the wordî Behold all things have become newî now I really feel like I am in Gods Army, he takes a step and I take a step, he stops I stop, and he is reforming me into I know not what. Since I have come to that place, I get up every morning with excitement, yesterdays gone and tomorrow may not be mine, I am living with a ìnowî saviorî. God is a now God and I am finding that out, not with a head knowledge but heart knowledge. The ministry I now have to others is formed of God and cannot be negated or altered by any man and is dependant on no mans ìBy their leaveî they can kick me off, squeeze me out, kick me out and I will never miss a beat as long as Jesus is with me and I remain in him and you know how long that will be. The world didnít give it and the world canít take it away. In Christ River | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 200 Registered: 7-2005  |
I was present in the congregation and listened intently while Brian4 was preaching his last sermon. I absolutely LOVED hearing those words. To the best of my recollection, it was the first time I had ever heard the pure, simple gospel from an Adventist pulpit. It made me realize what I had been missing for sixteen years. I haven't been back inside an Adventist church since then, and have been very happily attending a mainstream Protestant church for the past ten months. Thank you AGAIN, Brian, for your courage and loyalty to Christ. You're still ministering to me. Honestwitness | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 201 Registered: 7-2005 |
To answer the question about eternal security... Jesus said in John 6:37, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." It sounds to me like the Father and Jesus are the ones doing all the work here. The Father gives me to the Son. (This is a set fact.) I come to the Son. (This is a prophecy.) The Son will not cast me out. (This is a set fact.) If I'm to be stuck between two immoveable forces, I'm sure glad it's the Father and the Son. Were more comforting words ever spoken? I REST in this blessed assurance. Honestwitness | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 316 Registered: 8-2006 |
Amen, Honestwitness! I have clung to that verse many times as I was transitioning out of Adventism. I wanted Jesus, and only Him, and I believed that He would never send me away. "Come unto me, all you who are heavy-laden and I will give you rest" | ||
| Brian4 Registered user Username: Brian4 Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2006 |
River and Honestwitness, Thank you,for your words of encouragement. Praise the Lord for this forum also. I know God is with me and has a plan for my life and ministry. "Today is the first day of the rest of my life", a familiar quote I'm sure to most of us. Each day is new and exciting. We are given many new challenges and opportunities to live this day unto the Lord. We choose this day to live it unto the Lord and He sustains us and blesses us. When we look back we can appreciate where He has lead us and where He has delivered us. "The things that don't kill us make us stronger." Jwd, you made very good point. Being transformed by the renewing of our mind is the process that we are continuing. Allowing the Spirit to continually change us, is what I believe to be the work of God and is biblical sanctification. Old habits of this life and past training take time to change. Yes we are saved and we are being sanctified. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17 | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5212 Registered: 12-2003 |
HonestWitness, thank you for John 6:37, that we are secure between the immovable facts of the Father and the Son. A simmilar passage in Ephesians 2:18 has really impacted me. It clearly shows that our entire salvation and security in Christ is the work of the whole Trinity: "For through him [Jesus] we both [Jew and gentile] have access to the Father by one Spirit." The entlre Trinity participates in our new birth and eternal security. How amazing! Colleen |
