| Author | Message | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 57 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thanks so much for the explanation about communnion. I was aware the Lutherans did not believe transubstantiation but didn't grasp a practical reality of where their belief really led. It certainly seems that the practice of communion may be more meaningful then within a Lutheran church? Or is that too optimistic? The church I have targeted to attend has three services: traditional, contemporary and blended. Now I don't know if this relates only to the music or if there's less liturgy involved. I'm going to try the contemporary service. My elderly neighbors are members but don't know anything about the contemporary service. Aliza | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 58 Registered: 8-2006 |
Stan, I love that explanation of bitter and sweet. The only time in my life I've officially tasted an alcoholic beverage was the Communion at that Easter service. I wish that I had known that explanation because all I could think of was that it tasted horrible like NyQuil! | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 608 Registered: 7-2004  |
I would think the way a person perceives Communion would vary somewhat with personality and the meanings/understandings a person attaches to it. In my experience, I was pleasantly surprised by how much more meaningful a Lutheran communion was for me compared to most others I had participated in. I liked how personalized it became, with the pastor saying your name if he knows it. And I love how he individually reminds each person, as he hands out the bread, that it is for life, strength, or some other variation. And I especially love how he tells each child (they don't receive communion until after confirmation) that Jesus loves them so much everyday, etc. As an SDA child, I was never sure Jesus loved me, my behavior was never up to par! Our church offers a traditional and a contemporary service, although I have heard some say that both are actually blended services with one leaning more traditional and the other leaning more contemporary. We mostly attend the contemporary service. Last time I attended the traditional service, I had the NyQuil experience you described! | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 287 Registered: 6-2006  |
Our communion is very meaningful as well. We actually go up and kneel at the rail while the pastor and an assistant pass out communion. He always makes eye-contact with each of us as he says "Body of Christ given for you" or "Blood of Christ shed for you". The group as a whole waits for everyone to recieve their communion and then Pastor Hill dismisses everyone with "Go in peace and serve the Lord". Raven, I really like how your pastor says each of your names!  Leigh Anne | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 609 Registered: 7-2004 |
Leigh Anne, you've described how communion is done in our traditional service. And if I was going to be complete in my description, communion at the contemporary service also says to each, Name, "This is the Body of Christ given for you" and then adds for life, strength, etc. or "This is the Blood of Christ shed for you". Sorry, Aliza, for the detailed tangents! I've enjoyed reading about your church visits and look forward to more updates. | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 60 Registered: 8-2006 |
Raven, no apology needed as I'm learning so much from these tangents. I was so sheltered within Adventism that I really didn't understand much about the protestant world at all. Of course, I realized that they were Babylon and doomed to be lost because they didn't understand their Bible properly. I believe this lack of understanding makes it all the more difficult for when you first choose to look outside of Adventism. Where do you look? Where do you go? How do you figure out one church from another? I didn't have much of a clue initially so I've spent a lot of time educating myself and still continue to do so. That's why I started this thread--to encourage those ready to step outside of Adventism that there will be another home congregation for them even if it takes some time to find it. Trust me, if I can do it as a single women in a new town and without an outgoing sanguine personality, then anyone can do it. Aliza | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 289 Registered: 6-2006 |
Aliza, I believe you're doing everything the right way - studying and "shopping" around for your church. My best friend is married to a chaplain in the Navy and as you can imagine, they move every two years. She actually loves it, and has kind of an inner gypsy. Anyway her husband Wayne is ordained in the Congregational denomination, but they shop around in every town they nest in until they find the church that fits them best. When they lived in my town it was a Baptist church they settled in. Then they moved north and worshiped at a Conservative Congregational church. They've since moved again and Wayne pastors at the little Methodist church on their Marine base. I guess the point of my story is that you have the freedom to choose! Pray about it, shop around and God will lead you to your new church family. Love and blessings, Leigh Anne | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 101 Registered: 8-2006 |
I so agree, Leigh Anne. Before I became an Adventist, I was raised going to the Baptist church. After leaving Adventism, I visited a college Presbyterian church that had a contemporary service. The pastor's wife, who was a co-worker, had invited me. It scared me half to death! All the clapping and joyfulness was NOT what I had been used to! After I thought about it for a while, I came to the conclusion that those people were happy in the Lord. I prayed to God to lead me where He wanted me to go, and where I would find the TRUTH about HIM. It was a scary prayer, because I had struggled with "You led me into Adventism, which I thought was the true church, and then You led me out again. Where will You take me this time?" I needed to have faith that God was taking me on a journey, not a destination. When I would visit churches, I would pray, God, if this is where you want me to be, please confirm it in my spirit. There were churches that either after leaving or during the service itself, I knew were not where I was being led. When I visited Calvary Chapel in Spokane, I knew the Lord wanted me to be here and it was there I lost most of the remnants of my Adventist beliefs. I believe God also taught me not to be afraid of joyfully worshipping Him, and that it's the outflowing of my heart and not the outward trappings that is my true worship to Him. I've become much more comfortable with expressive worship since then. When I married, it was the same. My husband and I prayed to be led where God wanted us. This is how we are attending a PCA church now. We may be led somewhere else in the future, and we both believe that we must be open to God's path and go where He sends. I agree with Diana, if and when God wants you somewhere else, He will send you. And where He wants you at any given time, He will let you know. And so it will be for you. Susan | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 610 Registered: 7-2004  |
Aliza, this is a great thread. So many people struggle as they leave SDAism finding and becoming comfortable in a new church. And there is so much variety. It can take time to find a church where true Spiritual healing can begin. But God uses each of our stops on that journey. It took almost a year before we could even start really describing what we were, and were not, looking for in a church (beyond certain doctrinal beliefs). As you are engaged in the search, keep in mind that it isn't a race to a goal. God will use every experience along the way to strengthen you and build you. I hope that you continue to describe the churches that you visit, and that others are encouraged by your visits and descriptions. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2998 Registered: 3-2004  |
I thought that God was pushing me to find another church, but that was only me. God was pushing me to get involved more in my church. How do I know? Well, there is a small group that meets at a time I can meet. Because of my history of chronic fatigue, which I no longer have, but I get tired easily, I could not go on a week night and work full time also. The small group meets the 2nd and 4th Friday at the coffee shop at our church. I get off work at 2 PM on Fridays, so I can go home and take a nap. Then there was the question of the older singles group. They meet the 1st and 3rd Saturday evenings after the church service. God has fixed it so I can attend both of these at times convenient to me. Now, this does not mean that I will not visit other churches. I still want to do that. When I do, I will write about it here. Through all the experiences I have had I am still discovering what an awesome God we have. Diana | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 67 Registered: 8-2006 |
This is the third Sunday now in my new town. Before I give a review of the morning church services, I should mention about services during the week. Last Sunday night I decided to go back to one of the churches I attended the first week, the non-denominational First Christian. They don't have a regular Sunday night service but do have one of their "groups" that was meeting in the church. They have been doing an "Overview of the Old Testament" and it was very comprehensive. One of the pastors led it and he had a detailed outline and fill-in sheets covering the chronological time from Samuel to David. So that it wasn't just all teaching from upfront, part way through there were individual questions that we discussed at our tables and then he did a large group discussion. There were over 50 there and it was held in a very nice dining room. The style of this church is for groups and not full church services on Sunday or Wednesday. On Wednesday night I went to the Midweek meeting for the nondenominational church I had attended the previous Sunday. This is the one that had recently gone through some sort of crisis. Come to find out it was that the pastor had an affair. To make it more devastating they couldn't prove it for a period of time and it tended to drag on. Over the course of whatever was going on, they lost about 2/3 of the congregation it sounds like. As an aside, this group can understand the devastation that Ted Haggard's church is going through. However, in one way it was more damaging here locally because it wasn't instantly found out and dealt with rapidly. The service was similar to Sunday morning worship but ended with a prayer time at the front. I'm not sure who the person was who gave it--a lay person or elder or what. I left the Sunday night Bible study feeling that church would still be on my list. Wednesday night I left with more doubts as to whether or not I would be called to come into a hurting congregation at this stage. | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 68 Registered: 8-2006 |
My day started with an 8:00 am service at a large Assembly of God church. The motto of this church is Reaching, Teaching, Sending. They have a grade school and are active in the community. They've planted several other churches in nearby towns. The person I spoke with upon entering did a good job of explaining the mission and vision of the church. Then she invited the Senior pastor's wife (who is also a pastor) over and introduced me. Then the senior pastor came up and I met him as well. In some ways this was the most traditional church service I've attended yet. They had special music. Everyone was dressed traditionally with women in dresses to a great extent and many men in suits. The pastor had a sermon outline. It was a Thanksgiving sermon based on things to be thankful for. Nothing stood out about the sermon, but perhaps cause it's a once a year kind of topic. They asked for first time visitors to raise their hands and handed them a brochure that you are to take back at the end of the service to the guest table. I was the only guest in the very thin amount of people there so I was quite noticeable so a couple of people welcomed me at the end. They had a quite elaborate welcome package: a mug with their name on it and candy inside; a CD, which I suspect is a sermon and a license plate rim that says "Magnify Jesus" on top and the church name on the bottom. There were many things to like: their outreach and good organization but the church just wasn't for me. It just wasn't one where I'd feel totally comfortable bringing in an unbeliever or new believer. Partially it was a mere matter of taste. Quite frankly, I've come to enjoy a more contemporary, casual church service. There another equally large AOG church I visited a couple of years ago once, never dreaming of ever living here. I might give it another try as it's more contemporary. They are a giving church. They had cards for a yearly Missions Pledge month and the pastor announced that so far they have $7800 monthly committment for missions. They took the regular offering. Then later they took a once a month church building fund offering. So that was three different things about money! Oh, one last thing that was very nice is that when you drive in they have signs directing visitors to a visitors parking area. One church last week also had visitor parking but they didn't have signs on the way in and I never noticed until I was already parked. This AOG church was very well organized for a visitor. | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 69 Registered: 8-2006 |
My second church for this week was the last Community Church that I've identified so far for this town. It's a much smaller church, only one service. The bulletin said there were 101 attending last week. When I went in I was greeted by the pastor and he made a point of introducing me to some of the women so I had a time to talk before entering the service. The worship was joyful. They had special music, a couple of announcements and then the sermon. He was preaching on Luke 20, the parable of the tenants. His style was casual but expository. He did an excellent job of giving meaningful background information and placing the story in proper chronological perspective. This was probably the sermon with the most depth that I heard in this town even though on a well known story. I was pretty sure I was sitting next to the pastor's wife and we got to talking at the end of the service and that was confirmed. I was invited to the women's Bible study for tomorrow night and I think I will go to it. I'll mention this and then duck--the pastor's wife mentioned this church is following a Willowcreek model. She stated they put their basic gospel preaching on Sunday morning to reach the seeker. The pastor did a great job of explaining any reference briefly that an unchurched person might not understand. This is a relatively new church and is in the process of developing small groups. They are active in the community, albeit in a much smaller way than the bigger churches. For instance, the youth group was taking off after church to rake leaves for people. It wasn't until driving away that I realized that they didn't take up an offering. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4945 Registered: 12-2003  |
Aliza, what interesting reports! I'm so glad you're sharing your experiences here. Colleen | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2006 |
Does anyone see the irony that the deepest message comes from a Willow Creek Church? Haven't I heard criticism about the shallowness of the Willow Creek movement? Someone please help me out that knows more about that than I do. | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 76 Registered: 8-2006 |
Here's an aside on housekeeping issues for any of you who may be on committees for newcomers to your church. It's also just kind of a heads up for you lurkers who have yet to attempt to visit a church other than SDA, especially where you don't know anyone. I've attended six churches now (2 per week) and the first four all had some registration form that you are asked to fill out as a visitor and return to them which I purposefully did (although if they know their statistics I believe it shows most won't fill things out without pressure until about their 3rd visit). I've received two form letters from pastors. No phone calls (which I view as a positive since it would be a bit pushy for me) and surprisingly no e-mails. I would have thought more could communicate personally via e-mail as the recipient can can still feel safe--either respond or not to what you receive--yet still feel valued that they took the time to drop a personal note. Only one church pointed me out as a visitor from up front--the AOG yesterday. This would probably be threatening to some people, especially someone not yet a Christ follower. Two churches--The Vineyard and the Willow Creek one yesterday, had no welcome packet. But I did get a letter from the Vineyard pastor. The church yesterday, however, integrated me into their congregation and were calling me by name yet they had no offering to drop in a form. It's just now I'm noticing the bulletin did have a form where it says, "If you feel comfortable doing so, we would like you to fill in this part of the bulletin and place it in the container in the entryway." The sadest thing so far is that I e-mailed the one charismatic church that didn't have their Statement of Beliefs in their welcome packet and they have yet to respond. IMHO it's really serious to print an e-mail address somewhere and not respond because they don't know how weak my faith might be. I think I'll resend it and see what happens. This happened to me once before a few years ago. I resent something twice and got no response. Since I was concerned about their Christian witness to pre-Christians if this should happen, I wrote the church a letter trying to be as positive as possible. The pastor immediately wrote back a profuse apology. I was provided with all the info requested and then some. And he added that they were checking their e-mail system and tracking back what went wrong. So in that church's case, they were hugely grateful I pointed it out. FWIW Aliza | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 631 Registered: 7-2004 |
If only the standard Willow Creek and Megachurch model was to put their simple presentation of the Gospel on Sunday services I don't think any of us would have concerns. The concern is about those churches that have replaced a clear presentation of the Gospel with messages geared towards the felt needs of the seekers. The concern is about those churches that have replaced preaching from Scripture with entertaining storytelling. There are certainly Godly pastors and churches that have followed much of the megachurch models without watering down Scripture and the Gospel. This is why it is important to go and visit churches rather than just make assumptions based on reading a couple of things about them. Thanks again for taking the time to share your journey with each of us. | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 151 Registered: 8-2006 |
Aliza, Your reports are very interesting and informative. Thank you for sharing and I look forward to "traveling" more with you in your quest for a new community. Susan | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 83 Registered: 8-2006 |
First an update on what went on during the week as related to the churches. At the small Willow Creek-like church I had been invited to the Woman's Bible Study on Monday night so I chose to go to it. They were just starting the Max Lucado book, "Just Like Jesus". My initial disappointment was that it wasn't a study of the actual Bible but I don't know enough about their schedule to know whether they've got true Bible studies another night of the week. Very nice people. The pastor's wife facilitated the group. I found out she's a professional counselor in a private group of Christian counselors. Seems like that would be a very good skill set for being a pastor's wife. I came home one day during the week to find a plastic packet from the AOG church I had attended last week. It was by the mailbox which is a long way from the house. I don't know if they had intended to just leave it or whether they knocked and I wasn't home but I assume not or it would have been left there. Personally, if someone showed up at my door from a church I attended only once, I would feel that's a bit pushy. They also sent a letter. I finally listened to the CD they gave and it is a short inspiring choir piece. Aliza | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 84 Registered: 8-2006 |
My first church this week was another Assembly of God Church. This is another large church but totally different. This church is high tech and more contemporary. I was talking to a guy at the information area and asked him how he would compare his church with the other AOG church. His comment was quite revealing in one aspect. He said he had visited but described it as being "too formal" for him and went on to say, "I keep getting asked things like 'do you know Jesus?'. I don't fit in there because of the way I'm dressed." He was casually dressed and had long hair. Obviously, since he didn't fit the more traditional look of the first church, he stood out so they just assumed he wasn't a Christian. Instead of a regular church service it was a combination of stories and worship music intersperced throughout. Some of the stories were on video. Some were in person. The overall theme was praising God and thanking him in spite of what had gone on in their lives. There was a powerful presence of the Holy Spirit there. Stories such as losing a baby stillborn; an elderly couple fighting health battles; a young couple in love working to get his soon-to-be wife out of Armenia. And even a little girl who looked about 5 telling about her baby sister who was born at 2 pounds and was in critical condition for a long period of time. The pastor told about his daughter's death about two years ago to the week. Definitely everything was done from the perspective of "count it all joy" or "all things work together for good". The finale was the audience joining the worship team in the Chris Tomlin song, "How Great is Our God" with all the participants standing in front of the worship team. I thought to myself that the song had never meant so much to me as after hearing their stories. I left very blessed. All visitors are directed to go to the Hospitality Room to pick up a welcome gift and get acquainted. Since I was at the 8:00 am service I was the only visitor who stopped in. (This is a church with three services and about 1500 members they said.) I met the associate pastor and his wife who were very gracious and encouraging. They were talking about classes to get acquainted and I asked if they led to membership which they acknowledged. I admitted to them I didn't feel I could ever join AOG because of some differences. They asked about that and listened and acknowledged my concerns saying I had valid points and that it wouldn't be a problem. They definitely stressed they are a church about relationships with each other and with Jesus. They grow primarily through cell groups and outreach endeavors through that. To me it looked like a large complex of buildings but come to find out they are building a new facility some ways away. I continue to be amazed at the number of large churches in this relatively small city. Aliza |
