| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3071 Registered: 3-2004  |
Cathy, I used to eat to alter my moods, so I can understand what your concern is for your daughter. How old is she? That is really difficult. I will pray for you and her as the eating can lead to so many other problems. Diana | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 193 Registered: 7-2005  |
Well, I don't know anything about that disorder, but just the name sounds like a good description of my ex-husband. He was very difficult to live with. "Toxic" would be a good description of him. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1516 Registered: 7-2003 |
I actually learned about Cloud/Townsend when we studied Boundaries in a Sunday School class (no, it's not the Bible, but it helped me hear God's voice in a way I never had before). I used that book to set boundaries with my ex, and that is why he is now my 'ex'....he didn't like boundaries. I decided to look at their other titles and ran across Safe People. I underlined 75% or more of the negative traits that my ex had. I wish I'd read it 20 years ago. I've underlined so much in Safe People, in my ignorance, and misunderstanding, of the command to 'forgive', 'turn the other cheek' etc., which have left me being a victim to dispicable behavior. My ex, I also believe, is NPD. I went to a few websites on the disorder and copy and pasted into an email and sent them to a friend. She said if she hadn't known better she was sure they were statements I had written, as I'd said them all before. Understanding what that disorder does to people has helped me understand so much. I never really knew what narcissism was and when someone mentioned to me that she thought B was, I had no clue. When I began to research it, it was like reading my experiences with other people's names on them. Anyway, off topic a bit, but it actually helped me to recognize it wasn't 'just me' as the ex keeps trying to tell me. Sounds like it could help you too, Cathy. Check out online...I got Safe People for $2 plus $3.50 Shipping. That's considerably less than the store price. Now it was used, but there was not a mark on it anywhere. I can't remember if I got it through amazon or albris, but either way, search on the book name and you'll get lots of options. On Amazon, you can even read an excerpt. Like Susan, I would recommend this book for a lot of people. Actually, Susan, since you've read Safe People, when I was in the beginning chapters, I found myself thinking adventism used some of those negative tactics to control their membership. Did you have that sense? Perhaps it's just my outsider view watching B respond to their teachings. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5006 Registered: 12-2003  |
Another helpful book is "Kids Who Carry Our Pain" by Robert Hemfelt and Paul Warren. Also, if you've not read M. Scott Peck's book "People of the Lie", you should. It is really insightfulóit really helped me make sense of a few people in my life; I felt less crazy. Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 329 Registered: 6-2006  |
Lori and Melissa, I'll continue to pray for you! Thinking of you. Loved the NPD! Now how in the world do you eat to alter moods? The only thing I'm familiar with is how happy I get when I eat chocolate!!  Leigh Anne | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 163 Registered: 9-2006  |
I have Narcissistic scatteritus, commonly called Scatter brain. Nitwit. Jughead. Bonehead. Typical symptoms are, forgetting what wife told me to do. Having too ask wife two or three times what she just said. Failure to do honey do's or putting them off for an inordinate length of time. Symptoms are easily recognizable, patient has glazed eyes and a blank stare usually accompanied by a remote control. Non-toxic too me but very toxic too wife, the toxicity brings on hard stares, quizzical looks and vocal exclamations such as "How in the world did you ever make it before you met me??" or "What would you do without me??" This toxic reaction causes my hand to automatically flip to the next channel. I was probably bitten at a young age by a tootsie fly or some such. my wife says I am incurable.My father-in-law said I just wasn't any good in the first place. River | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 181 Registered: 8-2006 |
Melissa, I would say Adventism uses the techniques or behaviors of unsafe people. The expectation to conform, the imagined and real rejection from others if you don't; harsh, critical spirits from those who feel you aren't living the way you "should", peer pressure and the "Sister White says" all are signs that a person is unsafe. It's hard to be in authentic relationships with unsafe people because you cannot be vulnerable, and by being open and authentic, have relationships that encourage and help you grow in the Lord. On the other hand, safe people are the opposite: they accept you as you are, so you can be yourself around them, they help you to be the "you" that God intended, not who they want you to be; someone who has touched your life and made your life BETTER for it, not worse. Safe People is about learning to discern certain traits (character if you will) in others, and to choose relationships that are "safe" emotionally and spiritually, not to mention healthy in many other ways, including having proper boundaries. Because I believe that Adventism is a toxic system, I would agree that drawing a parallel is not surprising. Susan | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3073 Registered: 3-2004 |
Leigh Anne, Eating to cover emotions is done all the time by many people and quite often they do not realize what they are doing. Sugar is something I used to eat to alter my moods when I was angry, unhappy or just generally dissatisfied. I came from a very dysfunctional family and used food to cover emotions I did not want to recognize because my family was so in denial and was not supportive. I joined a 12 step program 22 years ago and learned why I ate the way I did. I would use any food and over eat, because when I over ate I was so uncomfortable that I could not feel anything else. I had used food like this since I was a child. That is how some one can use food to alter moods. My youngest brother has told me he can eat a half gallon of ice cream to comfort him. If you have any other questions about this ask Colleen for my email address. I will be glad to tell you what I can. River, I laughed as I read your self deprecating post. I have told you before I appreciate your sense of humor. I am sure your wife loves you with or in spite of it, which ever comes first. Since leaving adventism, I have learned better that I can laugh at myself and that it can be a good thing. God did give us a sense of humor, but he doubled your dose. He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 330 Registered: 6-2006 |
Thanks Diana - I had never heard the term before, but can relate. My family calls it "emotional eating". My whole family as well as my SDA in-laws struggle with it! (My mom actually went through O.A.) When I saw "eating to alter moods" I thought it had something to do with linketts! haha. Leigh Anne | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 185 Registered: 8-2006 |
Maybe it does, Leigh Anne. You know Ellen said meat eating excites the animal passions and of course you must avoid that at all costs, especially with your husband! So, linkettes COULD alter your mood if you eat them. (wide grin) Susan | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 164 Registered: 9-2006 |
Susan wrote: I would say Adventism uses the techniques or behaviors of unsafe people. The expectation to conform, the imagined and real rejection from others if you don't; harsh, critical spirits from those who feel you aren't living the way you "should", peer pressure and the "Sister White says" all are signs that a person is unsafe. It's hard to be in authentic relationships with unsafe people because you cannot be vulnerable, and by being open and authentic, have relationships that encourage and help you grow in the Lord. That is such an amazing statement; I can only see Adventism through your eyes but I have seen the same symptoms in my Adventist associates. What a sad indictment, I would think you have described spiritual imprisonment. Can you imagine God really being that way? Surely the church, as a people would in someway reflect Gods nature wouldnít you think? Granted since we are such an imperfect people it wouldnít probably reflect exactly as a mirror does our reflection but certainly it would take on some of his characteristics donít you think? You have opened to me a complete new line of thought, I am sure itís not original but none the less it is a whole new way for me too view my own church as well as myself and frankly I am overwhelmed by it and must apply myself to thinking about it. Wouldnít we as a people of God reflect his attitude toward us in some way? What I mean is that a child will surely take on some of the characteristics of the father? Now granted I am speaking of a child who has an association with his father and not speaking of a child who has never known his father. Is what you described up there a reflection of their father? Is that the reflection of the God they serve continually from Sabbath to Sabbath? Should I find myself fatherless would I want to be adopted by their father, having no father of my own? What you described up there, could this be a reflection of the same God that turned the water into wine? Is it the same God spoken of by the Psalmist David as he described the musings of a sheep in the 23rd Psalm? Is their God the same one whose word it is written (Prov 17:22 KJV) A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones. Do they bow down before their God with gritted teeth? Do we? Like a child who loves his father so much he mimics him and says ìwhen I grow up I want to be just like my Dad!! Do we want to grow up to be ìjust like our Fatherî? Should my father be harsh, critical, unyielding and unsafe would I want to grow up to be just like him, trusting in him to keep me safe from harm and thus pass those traits on down to my own Son? Like the child who finds himself on a high dangerous place and the Father says ìjump into my arms, do not be afraidî and after some hesitancy the child jumps and the Father catches him in his capable arms and holds him close. Is that a reflection of the Father Susan described above? Have we learned to lay our lives into the hands of a capable Father? Or do we view him with hooded eyes and gritted teeth just ìhoping for the bestî not really having confidence in him but feeling as though we have no other choice? Like a small child who stands before his towering Father and exclaims ìGee, I want to grow up to be just like you Dad!!î is that truly the case with us today? Are we truly, as we grow from day to day taking on the characteristics of the Father? Truly this morning I stand as a small child looking up at the high marks on the door post and they do seem so high and I just have to trust in my Father and say ìSomeday I will be that tallî. Like that child I stand with my head to the marks and am a little disappointed and cannot see the slow inching, a fraction here and a fraction there, but surely my Father must see it, surely someone must see it!! Oh, please tell me dear friend it is so, for I cannot see my own growth!! Do you think my thoughts this morning are the thoughts of a mad man and not based in reality? River | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 189 Registered: 8-2006 |
River, It's just so complicated to explain, and I want to say it's not EVERY Adventist, mostly those who read and follow Ellen White, but yes, they do have this view of the Father whether they will admit it or not. They don't see God as safe, so it's difficult to be safe people, themselves. They don't see that Jesus is the safest person who ever lived. It's worked out practically in their lack of assurance of salvation: the investigative judgement where you better have confessed every known sin, and stop sinning or keep the commandments (although most will say by God's power), and the statements where Ellen says angels are recording everything we do, say, or think in the "book of remembrance" among so much more oppressive statements that the love of the Father is dimmed. The bottom line is it's a works based theology, those who feel God accepts them only if they do right (keep all the commandments). The man who works has no rest, and the man who has no rest cannot allow others to rest, either. This can lead to people afraid to share their struggles, heartaches, weaknesses in order to find encouragement, to be built up in the faith by their church family, and to bear one anothers burdens, thus fulfilling the Law of Christ. As others have said here, to ask for prayer or to reveal our struggles causes people to view us as complainers. It's expected to grit your teeth and keep marching on, because this is what God expects. Now remember, I came from the side of Adventism that endeavored to read and follow Sister White's counsel. I think you will find those who do feel the way I described. Those who are more compassionate have either ignored Ellen or pick and choose. I believe Ramone said this in the 5 questions thread. It is true that by beholding we become changed. Who are we beholding? What image of God do we have? It will make a difference in what we become and what we desire for others to become. Susan (Message edited by SusanS on November 28, 2006) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 165 Registered: 9-2006 |
Susan, may I have permission to use your quote as part of my Magazine article for the month of January? It would appear exactly as below. I would say (church name omitted) uses the techniques or behaviors of unsafe people. The expectation to conform, the imagined and real rejection from others if you don't; harsh, critical spirits from those who feel you aren't living the way you "should", peer pressure and the "Sister (name omitted) says" all are signs that a person is unsafe. It's hard to be in authentic relationships with unsafe people because you cannot be vulnerable, and by being open and authentic, have relationships that encourage and help you grow in the Lord. No ones name will and (cannot) be used nor the name of any church affiliation. River | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 191 Registered: 8-2006 |
Sure, River, that's fine. | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 192 Registered: 8-2006 |
I feel convicted to acknowledge that many times I still exhibit unsafe behaviour and if that has ever come through in my posts here, I ask those who were offended to please forgive me. My desire here is to be a blessing and an encouragement, and to never be a stumbling block to others no matter where they are on their journey with the One who loves us unconditionally and Who alone is our Redeemer and our Judge. God is faithful and will complete that work He began in me! Susan | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 313 Registered: 12-2004 |
Susans I for one have been blessed by everyone of your thoughtful and thought provoking posts. I have appreciated reading them all. River, I also enjoy your your thoughts and your ability to "turn a phrase". | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 166 Registered: 9-2006 |
Susan, I also have been blessed by all your thought and your insights. When Grow up I want to have a friend just like you!! Randyg, Thank you. | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 194 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thank you both. I do struggle with how to be as gracious to my SDA friends as I want them (and others) to be with me. I want to be a safe person, because for me that's being "real". We are all sinners who stand in need of grace. I posted a 3 part sermon on Romans 14 and how to deal with a "weaker" brother on the thread by that name that I think has application to how people can be safe or unsafe people. If you get a chance, I think you will be blessed by listening. Susan | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 314 Registered: 12-2004 |
My quest for understanding the great chapter of Romans 14 and how it applies to me took me to the web site http://www.preceptaustin.org/ and I found a wealth of commentaries on Romans on this vast and ever so helpful resource. If you get a chance take a look and bookmark this site for further reference. | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 198 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thanks, Randyg. That looks like a great site and I did bookmark it. Susan |
