| Author | Message | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 116 Registered: 9-2006 |
Susan, I am hesitant to open up a whole new subject because we are seriously off topic on this thread. (at least partly because of me!) But I am curious what prophecies she made that were false. Note that I will not respond until we finish the current discussion. Thanks, WalkOnWater TenBLo˙@hotmail.com | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 128 Registered: 8-2006 |
Walk, I think keeping to the topic of thread is best, as I posted above. After the current discussion is finished, I'm sure many people will be willing to discuss various things EGW said regarding events. Thanks and God bless, Susan | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 129 Registered: 8-2006 |
Alternatively, some who are more computer savvy than I am could post links to previous threads on this very subject. Perhaps best done on a new thread, though, as to not bog this one down more, which would likely be the case. Susan | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 501 Registered: 7-2000 |
Lone, with all due respect, you have not accurately represented the facts on this subject ----------------------------- And WOW, you're forgetting the reason that I posted those quotes. You claimed that EGW NEVER put herself on the level of scripture. She did--period. Yes, she talked out of both sides of her mouth about that and a whole lot of other things, which is a big part of the schizophrenic approach to the Bible of so many SDA's. But, you cannot say that she didn't make claims putting her writings on a par with the Bible. You also cannot claim that the SDA leadership doesn't put her on a par with the Bible. If it's honesty you want, don't come trumpeting this tired old claim. You know now that it's not true. Bill | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 117 Registered: 9-2006 |
Question 3 Which "will" is in effect for us? The first? The last? Or both? Response: Obviously the Second Will is now in effect. The Old Will has been replaced by the New. WalkOnWater PS: I'm still studying the idea of the 10 Commandments actually being the First Covenant in compact form. As you know, there is an even more compact form of the 10 commandments. Love the Lord with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 118 Registered: 9-2006 |
Question 4 When did the "second will" go into effect? Response: A will does not go into effect until the one who wrote the will dies. So the moment Jesus died, the New Will went into effect. The tearing of the veil in the temple at the time of Jesusí death was further proof that the Old Covenant was gone and the New Covenant had been initiated by the blood of Jesus Christ. WalkOnWater TenBLo˙@hotmail.com | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 268 Registered: 2-2005 |
WOW, You said above: ěPaul says that some of the things he wrote were not directly from the Lord.î I know this statement isn't the point of the thread and was used only as an example but I'm curious where Paul says this. Thanks. Heretic | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4944 Registered: 12-2003  |
Walk, your comment misepresents Paul. In 1 Corinthians 7:10 and 12 Paul says, "To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husbandÖTo the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, hu must not divorce her..." The first comment is a direct restatement of Jesus' own teaching. His second remark about the believing and unbelieving spouses staying together is not a reference to a direct teaching of Jesus. Paul is not suggesting that this idea can therefore be considered not scriptural. Colleen | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 119 Registered: 9-2006 |
Collen: I never intended in any way to suggest that what Paul wrote was non scriptural. How could it be Non-Scriptural when it is included in the Scriptures? "Non-scriptural scripture" is an oxymoron. (grin) I fear you missed the whole point of my post. I was trying to show that Dr. Hyde was trying to suggest that all Ellen White's writings were straight from God Himself. So I pointed out that if Hyde's belief was true, that would make Ellen White greater than Paul who says he did not get everything straight from Jesus' own teaching. I was just a kid at the time and I am sure there were probably better arguments I could have used. But please give credit were credit is due. At least I did not sit silently by and allow, what I considred an error on the part of the teacher, to go unchallenged! WalkOnWater TenBLo˙@hotmail.com | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 120 Registered: 9-2006 |
Colleen, Forgive me!!!!! I think that is at least the second time I have mispelled your name. Sorry! I know it is not "Collen". I really do. I am the worst typist in the world and if it were not for computers, and spell checks, I'd be hopeless. WaukConWader | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 121 Registered: 9-2006 |
Hello Heretic: Thanks for the post! As Colleen says, it is in I Corinthians 7:10 & 12. Are you REALLY a heretic? WalkOnWater TenBLo˙@hotmail.com | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 535 Registered: 10-2002  |
Walk, blessings in Christ as you study! Thank you for reading & considering these things and for kindly responding to the questions I've asked. I'm blessed by your willingness.  I'm not sure that the "two great commandments" are a "compact form of the 10C". Many commentators have used them that way (including non-Adventist commentators), however, first of all neither of the two appears in the 10. Second, the great 2 are written in the "positive" form instead of the largely "negative" form of the 10. This positive command makes the command much more flexible, broad and ambiguous in its application. It looks directly to the heart instead of to external obedience. It carries no specifics (unlike the 10C which are very specific, save the command to "honor" parents). Very true. In retrospect, I ought to have added the beginning Galatians 4 to the question (and that lengthy "side note" under the question), which says that Christ was born "under law", hence we shouldn't be surprised to see Him "keeping" Old Covenant commands & practices that would cease after His death on the Cross -- when the Second Will went into effect. Anyhow, blessings again as you seek the Lord's face, search the Scriptures, and bask in His love. In Christ, Ramone | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 162 Registered: 12-2004 |
I would ask of Walk, do you believe that for the church, Ellen White is the sole and ultimate interpreter of scripture? This is the only real question that needs to be answered. Many of the Adventist doctrines are based solely on her interpretation or endorsement of an interpretation. So even if a person doesn't read or consider valid every word she presents, they are still accepting her version of things rather than using sound biblical interpretation and study. What I have found in these types of discussions are the beginnings of a circular reasoning cycle, wherein a person admonishes the outsider that White was a "lesser light" while at the same time holding to a position that her interpretation is the final one for the church which then sets her up, in essence, above the Bible. This was the situation that the Catholic church found itself in the age of the Reformation, in that the church was the only "correct" interpretator of the scripture. | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 122 Registered: 9-2006 |
Hello Goldenbear: You asked: "... do you believe that for the church, Ellen White is the sole and ultimate interpreter of scripture?" My response: That is an easy one to answer. Absolutely not! In fact, I believe to make Ellen, or any one else, the "sole interpreter of truth" has, through the ages, gotten the Church of Jesus Christ into all sorts of problems. God speaks through many but that does not make them the standard by which all truth is judged. I believe God spoke through Martin Luther, but not all that Martin Luther said or wrote was from God. I believe God spoke through C. S. Lewis, but not all he wrote or said was from God. The same holds true for A. W. Tozer, and Dwight Moody, and Billy Graham, and Watchman Nee and so many other Christians down through history. I believe God spoke through Ellen White but not all Ellen White wrote or said was from God. If Ellen White, or anyone else, could be made the ultimate interpreter of truth, why would we need the Holy Spirit? The Bible instructs us we are to test all things and hold fast to that which is good. For goodness sake, if God could speak through a burning bush, I reckon He could speak through Ellen White. If God could speak through a jack ass, that gives me hope that on rare occasions He might be able to speak through me. God is a pretty smart Dude! Dude. WalkOnWater TenBLo˙@hotmail.com PS: If I ever claim to be the sole interpreter of Scripture, please carry me out on a gurney! | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 130 Registered: 8-2006  |
"If God could speak through a jack ass, that gives me hope that on rare occasions He might be able to speak through me." -That's funny- This is very interesting. About one year ago an SDA pastor here in Michigan made almost a word for word statement as the one made by Walk in his post above, (except for the jackass part) in less than a month he was fired because of it. Hmmmmm. | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 75 Registered: 8-2006 |
Sad story Timmy. Whatever happened to this pastor? He needs our prayers and support. (sorry to go off topic but it does speak to the freedom of studying or stating your beliefs) | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 131 Registered: 8-2006 |
Aliza, The last I heard he moved out of state and we lost contact with him. My wife talked to him before he moved and he said he was having panic attacks and sleepless nights... I wish I could find him, he was a very good speaker and loved the Lord with all his essence.. | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thanks Timmy. We can only pray that he finds someone such as Dale, Greg or Mark to talk to. I would guess it's hard for pastors to find support for this. Local pastors of other denominations aren't going to have a clue what he's going through. | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 123 Registered: 9-2006 |
Timmy, thanks for your post. Of course we don't know the full story about the Pastor so it is hard to make a judgment but it does sound like this man was badly treated. Martin Luther once remarked, "God save me from my enemies and from my friends." I sometimes wonder if Ellen White's biggest problem is often her "friends" (her defenders). To defend Ellen White by firing a Pastor for saying that not eveything she wrote is from God, is going against Ellen White's own words. She herself says, "Nothing is infallible except God and heaven." That means Ellen White is including herself in the company of fallible human beings. Those who try to defend Ellen White by violating the very words she spoke are not friends, they are enemies. Thanks again for your comments. WalkOnWater TenBLo˙@hotmail.com | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 132 Registered: 8-2006 |
Walk, you're welcome. I agree, we do not know the whole story, (he wasn't our pastor) I know there were more issues but like I said, my wife talked to him on the phone before he left the state and the MAIN issue was his thoughts on the "inspired pen." I also know the action goes against some of her own words, but as Bill so clearly pointed out, you can find words that speak from either side of the fence. I think he said, "...she talked out of both sides of her mouth about that and a whole lot of other things..." Anyway, I suppose this issue could start another thread. We have already deviated from the oringinal post and questions.... sorry Ramone! |
