| Author | Message | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 479 Registered: 10-2005 |
I stumbled on this article/website and found this article confusingly interesting. Perhaps a little error mixed with some truth. http://experts.about.com/q/Seventh-Day-Adventists-2318/ADVENTISM-CULT.htm I found it after stopping by cultwatch.com - which has a super apostle test. It told me I should leave my church when I took the test. Does anyone know anything about cultwatch.com? | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 88 Registered: 8-2006 |
Lynne, Tom Norris is an SDA apologist who promotes another variation of Adventism. I was somewhat familiar with him when he posted on the old AToday forum. I believe he promotes a return to historic Adventist beliefs, but when I glanced at the Adventist Reform website, I saw articles by Des Ford as well as Jack Sequira, whom I have read a lot of what he has written. Bill (LoneViking) and Dennis Fischer are more familiar with him. They can explain more about Tom. I am not familiar with cultwatch.com. Susan (Message edited by SusanS on November 03, 2006) | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 311 Registered: 11-2004 |
I just took the test too  I was told I was at risk. While they do bring up some issues that I would consider cult-like, they do ask some questions that do not directly relate to cult-type behavior. They do appear to be cessationalists too. If you answer yes on a lot of questions I would sit back and do some thinking and ask God for guidance. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 600 Registered: 7-2004  |
I took the test. But there wasn't any risk. Clearly if you went to a church with an emphasis on tithing you would score high. Even higher if it was one of the churches that insists on members signing a "covenant" that includes tithing. We saw plenty of non-denominationals in our area that did just these things. We weren't interested. I think that the questions were pretty much on-target. I don't know what score should define a group as a "cult", but I would be concerned about being in a church that had more than a couple of "yes" responses. | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 312 Registered: 11-2004 |
I did have a question regarding the test - one of my yes answers. The question was "Is there a perception in your church that your leader's pronouncements come directly from God?" I think this question can be taken two ways....I do believe my pastor goes to God for guidance about what to preach and God may reveal some things to him in His word. That is quite different than anything the pastor says is from God. | ||
| Bigal Registered user Username: Bigal Post Number: 28 Registered: 9-2006  |
I only answered one question with a yes. It was the one about my church keeping a record of my giving (they called it tithe in the question). It still gave me a "at risk" and I should buy the book or read an article. Hmmm Alan (Message edited by bigal on November 03, 2006) | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 91 Registered: 8-2006 |
Same yes answer for me, Alan. I was suspicious of that. Susan | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 603 Registered: 7-2004  |
As far as I know, all churches keep a record of giving when people have their name attached to their monetary gift. This is to track charitable giving for income tax purposes. That is not what the question was asking. Instead it asked: "Is your tithing recorded so leaders can monitor your giving?" Our church doesn't monitor anyone's giving, they simply keep the records they are expected to keep - good bookkeeping. Nobody scrutinizes who gives what, and our pastor doesn't want to know who gives what. I answered the question "No" as I did all the questions. (Of course I don't tithe and our church doesn't ask people to tithe, but I would have answered "No" even if the question had asked "Is your giving recorded so leaders can monitor your giving") (Message edited by Raven on November 03, 2006) | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 92 Registered: 8-2006 |
Ahhh...thanks for pointing that out, Raven. I missed the emphasis in the question. Susan | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 602 Registered: 7-2004 |
For example, we attended a church where they announced that they were seeking some new elders. One of the requirements was that the prospective elders must have been a tithe paying member for the last 3 years. I would consider that monitoring your giving. | ||
| Bigal Registered user Username: Bigal Post Number: 29 Registered: 9-2006 |
I agree with you Raven. I should have answered it no also. The church I attend only has record of my giving and it is not considered tithing. I did take the test as if I were still an adventist and of course it indicated that I was in deep trouble. ALan | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 480 Registered: 10-2005 |
Here is the exact link to the test: http://www.cultwatch.com/SuperApostleDetector.html I answered yes to 3 questions regarding my current church and came up with the same result after going back and doing the test again, thinking back to when I was an Adventist. Only as an Adventist, I answered yes to about 6 of the questions. It said: "Off the scale! Super Apostle mind control methods detected. You are in a Super Apostle church. Strongly recommend you read all Super Apostle articles on this site. Leaving is your best option." | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2983 Registered: 3-2004  |
I went to the above link and all I got was 2 churches with a bar beneath them and the yes and no boxes beneath that. I would like to take that test, just for fun. Diana | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 604 Registered: 7-2004 |
Diana, that is the test. There should be one question between the bar and the Yes/No boxes. Just click on Yes or No for the question you see, and it will proceed to the next question. After answering the final question, it will tell you their recommendation. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 862 Registered: 4-2000  |
Tom Norris believes in reforming the SDA Church. However, he is very passionately against tithing. His powerful stance against tithing may have been a contributing catylst to shut down the Adventist Today forums. Furthermore, he agrees with Des Ford's theology. In fact, AT destroyed those highly-researched tithing posts. Fortunately, I still have downloaded copies of many of them. In recent years, I still communicate occasionally with Tom at www.atomorrow.com where he was given a special section on that forum to keep him in a box. I am convinced that he would be more convincing if he didn't try so hard with very lengthy posts(smile). Dennis Fischer | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2984 Registered: 3-2004 |
Raven, there is NOTHING between the bar and the yes/no boxes. Maybe it is my computer, 'cause nothing is there. Diana | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 273 Registered: 6-2006  |
Diana, do you have an iMac or the Safari server? I checked into my iMac/Safari, and the questions didn't show up. Then I checked on my laptop with Windows and it was there. (Thankfully I passed the test.) Leigh Anne | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2985 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have a lapton made by Satellite with Windows. Diana | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 606 Registered: 1-2003  |
Leigh Anne and Diana, I had the problem with my Safari browser (I'm on an imac intel computer) but when I switched over to FireFox and went back to the siter the questions were there. It happens seldom but sometimes a site is optimized to one browser or another. Richard rtruitt@mac.com PS: my guess is that Netscape would probably work ok but I have it set up to work on my school network and don't mess with it away from school. | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 164 Registered: 1-2004  |
The link works fine using Opera web browser and Ubuntu Linux on my Toshiba Libretto... about as far away from Microsoft as you can get. Jeremiah |
