| Author | Message | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 31 Registered: 8-2006  |
Jwd, I have used some of these arguments with SDA's and when they get backed in a corner they say that drinking fermented wine was not permitted on the day of attonement, and we are now living in the "anti-typical day of attonement" so this is why we can't indulge in such things... This is the same argument I have heard for jewelery as well... At this point I usually ask them why the DAY of attonement did not have the day/year application like the 2300 DAYS, which usually induces a phenomenal blank stare...  | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 346 Registered: 10-2002  |
Wow, Timmy, great retort! Jwd, have you read Deuteronomy 14:23-26? | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 52 Registered: 1-2006  |
Excerpts from the September, 1990 Discover magazine Give that Rat a Bud For years studies have shown that a wee bit to drink, but not too much, may do your heart good. People who drink alcohol in moderation (say, a can of beer or a glass of wine a day) appear to have less heart disease than those who drink heavily or not at all. Just how alcohol might protect your arteries isnít clear . . . . . . (researcher) Klevay fed rats a copper-poor diet and gave them either water or Budweiser to drink. ìOther beers work, too,î Klevay says, but we used Budweiser because the Wall Street Journal says itís Americaís best selling brew.î The beer-drinking rats lived nearly six times longerónine months instead of a month and a halfóthan their teetotaling counterparts. They also had lower blood cholesterol and fewer enlarged hearts. Yet how beer helped the rats remains a mystery. . . . . . If Klevayís beer theory is right, it might explain why blood-cholesterol levels in the United States dip in the summerówhen beer drinking peaks. My opinion? If youíre a rat, you should seriously consider the above. Bob | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 2013 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hey Bob, that is true in humans as well as rats. The medical evidence is overwhelming in favor of moderate amounts of beer and wine in promoting good heart health. Beer is rich in Quercitin, an antioxidant, and red wine especially is high in antioxidants that protect the heart, and they are found in higher quantities in red wine than in grape juice. But the Bible also warns against the abuse of alcohol, and my job as a hospital based physician is much more difficult because of alcohol being abused. Many homes have been destroyed because of booze. But prohibition didn't work in America when tried, and prohibition won't work when abstinence is forced on churches. Stan | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 348 Registered: 10-2002 |
Amen. | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 483 Registered: 2-2001 |
Stan, I feel for you, but you must also acknowledge that many homes have been wrecked because of infidelity and debt. Do we then ban sex inside marriage and having a home mortgage because some have suffered from these practices? In fact I would go so far as to say that if it were not for credit the medical profession would not have the knowledge it does today. What I do not understand is why, if the medical profession knows that wine produces good results would they prefer to prescribe a synthetic drug instead of what God gave us naturally? In times of extreme stress--loss of a loved one no one thinks twice about giving you a sleeping pill, but does anyone think to buy a bottle of wine in the Adventist community? Just my thought | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2383 Registered: 11-2002 |
I had a marguretia yesterday. Does that count? | ||
| Wally Registered user Username: Wally Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2002 |
For what it's worth, a few years ago, after learning that many SDA's claim that Christ did not drink wine, I inquired to the Q&A section of a major denomination's website. In my question, I did not mention SDA's, but indicated that some conservative Christians make the claim that Christ drank non-alcoholic grape juice. I asked whether there was any evidence from the Bible that could support this view. The response received was: "Yes, clearly our Lord drank wine. He was a faithful orthodox Jew and they celebrated every year the Passover in which wine was used and consumed. And there is no reason to believe that he did not drink wine as was common in his day, as a beverage at most meals, in light of the fact that it was a healthy alternative to water that may be contaminated. It is sad that some Christians fall into the trap of making rules that the Bible never gives us. It is legalism that is clearly condemned and rejected by our Lord and His apostles. There was no such things as a "non alcohol grape beverage" in those days. The suggestion that there was is just laughable! The only way to keep grape juice, grape juice is through the modern method of pasteurization. In fact, a close pastor friend of mine who was born and raised on a vineyard in California explains how an opened bottle of grape juice begins immediately to ferment simply because of the yeast in the air. He says that most opened bottles of grape juice end up containing more alcohol than the so-called "no alcohol" wines! The Bible clearly rejects drunkenness, but nowhere rejects consuming wine, in fact recommends it and describes wine as that which gladdens the heart of man. The "fruit of the vine" is just another phrase for "wine." Wine is another good gift from God that may be received and enjoyed to His glory." | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2822 Registered: 3-2004  |
Wally, Welcome to FAF. Let us know about you and your journey, when you are ready. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4629 Registered: 12-2003  |
Wally, welcome to the forum! You've waited a long time to make your first post! We're looking forward to getting to know you. Glad you're here! Colleen | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 249 Registered: 4-2005  |
Jwd, have you read Deuteronomy 14:23-26? Agapatos - - Yes I have, but not recently. Thanks for bringing it to mind. A fascinating text, esp with our topic. :c) Gal 5:1 JWD | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 254 Registered: 12-2004 |
Welcome Wally | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2386 Registered: 11-2002 |
Wally, I am eagerally looking forward to learning from you and about you. Your friend, Susan | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 357 Registered: 10-2002 |
Welcome, Wally! Blessings in His intoxicating new wine! | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 485 Registered: 2-2001 |
Welcome Wally-- Are you the same person who posted several years ago? | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 92 Registered: 8-2005  |
Well, I can say I had one positive experience out of being an SDA, I quit drinking cold turkey. I was a bonafide alcoholic, I drank to hide PTSD memories, I drank very heavily for 9 years after being discharged, even after I got married. I have been totally sober for over 10 years, I didn't need AA or anything, just the Lord Jesus Christ!!! | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 93 Registered: 8-2005 |
Well, I can say I had one positive experience out of being an SDA, I quit drinking cold turkey. I was a bonafide alcoholic, I drank to hide PTSD memories, I drank very heavily for 9 years after being discharged from the Military, even after I got married. I have been totally sober for over 10 years, I didn't need AA or anything, just the Lord Jesus Christ!!! | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 142 Registered: 7-2005  |
Welcome, Wally! You'll find this group to be caring, supportive, and very good at stretching the mind to fit around various theological concepts. I remember reading somewhere that fermentation can take place even while grapes are still on the vine. If that's the case, it would be highly likely that even freshly pressed grape juice in Jesus' time period was already an alcolic beverage. Honestwitness | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 55 Registered: 1-2006 |
91 Steps Praise the Lord! Years ago I read an article wherein a researcher had interviewed social drinkers and also confirmed alcoholics. The researcher commented that most social drinkers could not really remember their first drink whereas most alcoholics could definitely remember their first drink, with comments like, "Oh yes, it was a Saturday night in 1959, the middle of Kansas and I tried blah blah brand of whatever whiskey, and it was just WONDERFUL." It would seem to confirm the idea that there may be pre-existing propensities to heavy alcohol use. I know this sounds like a generalization, but I wonder if it might be true? Bob | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2006 |
I told a "Former Catholic" of the SDA mindset that Jesus only turned the water into grape juice, With this he laughed and laughed, and then said something I never thought of... By claiming Jesus only turned water into grape juice and not real wine, they take away the most important part of the miracle! Anyone could have slipped a package of koolaid in there, but no one could have made the best wine... Saturday we met up with my wifes parents at their SDA church, While there I hade a funny thought from reading this topic all week. Their church looks right, smells right, sounds right, but something is missing... Kind of like the difference between real wine and fake wine... |
