| Author | Message | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 153 Registered: 11-2004 |
In reading Bible stories to my children I realized how many times the disciples were scared because they thought Jesus was a ghost. My children think those parts of the story are funny, but I wondered why I didn't see that long ago. How could disciples who were with Jesus be scared of ghosts if they were taught soul sleep? Why didn't they think that Jesus was an imposter instead of a ghost after he rose from the dead if they believed in soul sleep? | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 137 Registered: 7-2004 |
I often wonder what the jews believed about soul sleep. I guess there were many variations then just as now. I do remember hearing that it is possible Jesus delayed in raising Lazarus up until 4 days was because the jews believed that the spirit lingered or hovered above the body for 3 days! That makes sense! But if they believed this, and soul sleep was the answer, why did Jesus not address their error? Who knows. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4587 Registered: 12-2003  |
U2ówhat a great oberservation! Interesting questions. Colleen | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 327 Registered: 10-2002  |
I wonder if their idea of "ghost" was the same as our idea is? | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 493 Registered: 6-2004 |
Well, Jesus did not rebuke the disciples for thinking he was a ghost, he said "take courage, it is I". | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 538 Registered: 7-2004  |
That's sure not how an SDA would have responded! The standard response would have been "there's no such thing as ghosts..." Or maybe a discourse on how important it is to believe in soul sleep so you won't be deceived into thinking there's such things as a ghost when it might really be a demon. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4593 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ha! So true, Raven! Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1493 Registered: 10-2004  |
Here is what happened after Christ's resurrection:
Jesus clearly did not say: "Spirits do not live apart from the body--they sleep in the grave" or "There is no such thing as a spirit without a body." He very clearly stated that "a spirit does not have flesh and bones"--which goes against everything Adventism teaches! Adventism denies the human spirit and teaches that all spirits have (are!) bodies, whether they are angelic, divine, etc. This is their foundational heresy and is what made them reject the Trinity--because they believed that God the Father has a body, thus instituting their very Mormon-like doctrine of polytheism which they hold to this day. Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4598 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jeremy, you're right. I also believe that Adventism's rejection of the human spirit, thus rendering everything in creation "physical", is their foundational heresy. Not only does it dictate their misunderstanding the the Trinity and leave them with "multiple gods", or functional tritheism, but it also completely alters the nature of sin, the nature of man, and the nature of Christ. It makes sin "physical" instead of a dead spirit, and it makes Jesus a human with no spiritóthus meaning His righteousness was Physical instead of intrinsically spiritual. His sinlessness, then, becomes our example because if He, who inherited Mary's flawed genes could keep the law with the Holy Spirit's power, so can we. The Adventist doctrine of soul-sleep, which is NOT the same as the "soul-sleep" doctrine some evangelical Christians espouse, is subtle and mortally dangerous. There is a very good spiritual reason why the Sabbathóthe shadow of Jesus Himselfóand the doctrines of soul sleep and of the wrath of God are repugnant to Adventists. Those doctrines really do have strong spiritual attachments to their own spirits because they obscure saving truth. Colleen | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 184 Registered: 3-2005 |
Colleen - what is the difference between the "soul-sleep" doctrine of SDAs and the view of "soul-sleep" held by some evangelical Christians? | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2365 Registered: 11-2002 |
The SDA teaching of the dead really being asleep was the very first thing I rejected from my parents religion (SDA). Even as a very young child I could not believe that a loving god would make me be asleep for possibly zillions of years. Ever since I could remember I have suffered from frequent and very vivid nightmares. I remember being only around eight years old wondering why if Jesus loved me so much He'd make me stay asleep and have nightmares for zillions of years so I very quickly by at least age eight decided the church I was being raised in had to be wrong on that teaching. Then as I got older I read and studied the Bible for myself and I soon realized my childhood belief in a loving God who would not make me have nightmares after I died was correct. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1494 Registered: 10-2004 |
Tisha, I'll let Colleen answer the question, but I would like to point out that the SDA teaching really should not be called "soul sleep" at all. They don't believe the soul (or spirit) is sleeping--they don't even believe the soul (or spirit) exists (or ever has, as something immaterial, since "soul" = "a living body" and "spirit" = "breath" according to Adventism). So, at the very least, the SDA teaching should be called "soul cessation"--but really they just believe in "soullessness" and "spiritlessness." In other words, materialism. Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on September 12, 2006) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4600 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks for that explanation, Jeremy. Christians who believe in soul sleep believe that humans have souls that go to God when they die, but instead of being conscious and alert, they are with Jesus and sleepingónot non-existent, but sleeping. Jeremy explained the Adventist position well. Colleen | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 186 Registered: 3-2005 |
You're right Jeremy - now I get the distinction! I don't think I heard the term "soul-sleep" as an SDA. It has only been since then that I have heard the two terms used. I thought that meant since the SDA's don't believe we go to heaven immediatley, it meant they believed in soul-sleep. But of course, that really isn't possible, is it, since they don't even believe in a soul as most Christians do! No wonder Christians get confused by the SDA teachings! Again - an instance where words mean something totally different! | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 332 Registered: 10-2002 |
The particulars of the SDA belief about soul-sleep were not explained to me in that much detail... neither in the Sligo area, nor at SVA in Virginia, nor at LSU in Riverside (but the latter is an "of course!" if you know its reputation!). It was only many years later that I looked in an SDA Bible with "notes" in the back and for the first time came across the stricter SDA belief about what "soul" means. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1497 Registered: 10-2004 |
Speaking of the Trinity, you've all gotta hear Doug Batchelor blatantly teaching Tritheism on his radio show! Here is the link to the audio clip where he is answering a caller's question: http://www.bibleuniverse.com/resources/Audio/BALQALib/031702_word_Trinity.asx I found this awhile back and then listened to it again last night. It's unbelievable! Jeremy | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2812 Registered: 3-2004  |
One has to really know their Bible and what it teaches because he sounds so Biblical. Diana |
