| Author | Message | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 121 Registered: 10-2002  |
Do you ever feel God's beating heart? There are times when I can't hold it back and I nearly burst out in tears. Sometimes I suddenly do. Some may think I'm over-emotionalizing things, but at the same time, it is God who invented emotions (as well as intellect). When all of our being is brought under submission to the Spirit, I believe He can use emotions (as well as intellect) to witness to Him. At the center of this is His heart---and it is overwhelming at times. Do you know what I mean? His heart is longing, aching, loving. At times I feel His agony for those He loves so much! In these times I suddenly know how un-important most of what I argue about truly is, and how utterly valuable, loved, and precious all people are to Him. Okay, I'm really just throwing this out there because I need to share, and I'm looking for fellowship in His heart. This is not about theology... it's the burning passion of His heart for us, for each other. God, help us know Your heart! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4235 Registered: 12-2003  |
Ramone, I do know what you mean. Sometimes I feel overcome by the sense of God's presence and faithfulness and the miracle of His revealing Himself. Some of the times I feel the most overwhelmed are when I am actually memorizing Scripture or pursuing an inductive trail in the Bible. I ask God to teach me the Truth and to help me know Him in new ways, and sometimes I can't even quite put into words the ideas and realizations that "come together". Sometimes I am moved to tears by realizing that God really does reveal Himself and teach eternal realities that I wouldn't be able to begin to grasp without being taught by His Spirit. That He reveals Himself to me, that He is faithful, that He holds my heart at times I would normally have been fearfulóI really cannot explain how grateful I feel and how overwhelmed I am that He has made me His daughter. These kinds of experiences are not the product of mere emotional bursts or serotonin levels. These are the realities that verify Him to me. The fact that His personal love and attention and tailored life lessons often come to me in correlation with studying His word also confirms the power and authority of this one Book. Yes, RamoneóI understand completely! Colleen | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 86 Registered: 2-2006  |
I, too, experience that emotional overflowing. I often get 'the weepies' during an exceptionally moving church service where the combination of the 3 M's (music, meditation, message), in addition to the sense of amazement at being able to share this incredible experience with people of like mind, can be overwhelming. I am currently reading a book that describes our emotions as 'the language of prayer' or 'the language of God'.("Secrets of the Lost Mode of Prayer: The Hidden Power of Beauty, Blessing, Wisdom and Hurt", by Gregg Braden) I think it is a really neat concept. Sometimes we can just sit there and FEEL, and commune with the Presence of God, and no words are necessary. And to know that my feelings are okay---it's normal and right to have them---this is so awesome! Joyce | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 124 Registered: 10-2002 |
Have you had His heart burst through you when in prayer for other people? This is what I really want to talk about here. Please let me know if you've experienced this. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 24 Registered: 6-2006  |
There have been many times where I've been so distracted with "life" that when I pray I just don't know where to start. When that has happened, I remember to "Be still" and I ask the Holy Spirit to lead me and help me to know what to pray. Amazingly people come to mind who I haven't thought of in a while, or I'm lead to pray for certain issues with my loved ones. I can't express to you the joy I've experienced during those quiet times. I pray that all my friends and family would experience the same joy and peace that comes from an every day relationship with Jesus.  Leigh Anne | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4242 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, Agapetos, I have had that experience. There have been times when I knew God was having me pray for extended periods for purposes I couldn't completely understand. I remember one time when this happened was shortly before my father's death. He was suffering a great deal, had noticable aphasia from multiple mini-strokes, and was extremely deaf, making it very hard for him and his care-givers to communicate. He was not well, and he was suffering and frustrated. I remember praying one afternoon with such a sense of urgency and deep emotion that God would comfort him in a place that didn't need words, because he couldn't literally hear words nor muster words to speakóbut he was aware. For twenty minutes I prayed, crying and somehow feeling the entire weight of his suffering. I can't explain itóbut I knew God was asking me to intercede for him. I became aware that God was doing something in my dad that I couldn't completely understand, but I was able to release him to God. I felt completely at rest and aware that God had done something as a result of that prayer. I still don't know exactly what happened, and I won't until heaven. I do know that that evening, he became ill and developed sepsis, and within about two weeks he died. I believe God took him out of his mortal tent and gave him relief and peace, and somehow that praying God asked me to do was part of the equation. Colleen | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 76 Registered: 7-2005  |
Yes, I have had this overwhelming awareness of God's heart. I've written about it on my web site www.honestwitness.com. Please feel free to visit and read the link on Spiritual Gifts. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1410 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hw, that women's ministry sermon was very providential for me today. Thanks for sharing your website. | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 258 Registered: 6-2005 |
Yes, Ramone, I have had similar experiences on several occasions since I left adventism. Especially while praying for someone. No words can accurately describe the experience, but I would be happy to dialog with you about it futher. What a priviledge that God allows us to get glimpses of His heart for others, sometimes in great love or sorrow even for strangers, other times with strong aversion. 4excape@bellsouth.net Thanks for sharing your website honestwitness. I appreciated your description in your "good gifts" section A few months ago, when I first left adventism, I was a bit overwhelmed by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that I experienced. I was completely ignorant of, and even afraid of, the different manifestation gifts of God thru the Holy Spirit. Someone explained to me how very eager God is to communicate with His children, on every level. (just as we are eager to do so for those we love). However, God is not limited to our earthy dimensions of time, place, space, language, awareness, etc. He longs to communicate his Love, direction, and presence to us in great measure, while sleeping, waking, praying, working, etc. He promises that we will find Him when we seek Him with all of our hearts. I find myself eagerly desiring spiritual gifts as Paul expressed. Lori | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 157 Registered: 10-2002 |
Honestwitness and Lori--- Thank you so much for sharing! I can't explain how, but when people share their stories of meeting God and God doing His stuff in their lives, I learn so much more than from a teaching that tries to teach the same 'principles'. Honestwitness, your section on gifts & the baptism of the Holy Spirit was very, very clear. I've felt the same things but have not been able to express it the way you have. Can I link you on one of my pages or refer you to a friend if the need arises? Colleen--- Thanks for sharing your personal story of intercession for your father. It's very difficult but very wonderful to have that kind of experience. It reminded me of the first time I truly experienced intercession. I was unsure about sharing this, but I feel the Spirit prompting me to share it now. I was driving back to southern California from my cousin's wedding in Nebraska in the summer, 2001. Before leaving I had attended a "God Chasers" meeting (I recommend the original book by Tommy Tenney by that name), and the whole the way up I had been in God's presence, worshiping Him with music on my stereo. It was wonderful and went on for hours and hours. But when I started on the way back, I only worshiped for a little while. At one point I realized I was "forcing" it, and I kind of asked the Lord if there was something else He wanted me to do. I finally turned off the stereo and began to talk to Him or wait on Him... I can't remember! But soon after I was overwhelmed by the Spirit---maybe you could call it a "spirit of intercession", but it was just overwhelming. I was crying and crying and praying. I prayed for all the people I could remember back in Japan (I had been a missionary in Osaka the year before, and then a year later I returned and live there now). As I prayed for them, it was like I saw their face in my mind in front of me, and I prayed until the prayer "rested" or "landed" right, and then I was released to pray for another person. The first person who "came to mind" was my friend H' who used to live in Tokyo. She had been a pen-pal of mine, but had been suffering from depression. I saw her and tried to pray for her, but I couldn't. I prayed what I thought she needed, but there was no change. I somehow then "gave up" and let God do it, and He broke through, and her face changed, and she smiled! She smiled! Oh how she smiled! I've never seen that kind of joy in her! I went on to pray for others in the same way. I think this must've lasted at least an hour or more. It was tiring, but wonderful, and my face hurt from smiling so much! I shared this about my friend H' because I never got to see her again---she committed suicide in February 2002. We emailed a few times, but her emails rambled and I didn't know how to speak hope to her---it seemed we were growing further and further apart in being able to relate to each other. When I returned to Japan for good in January 2002, I meant to give her a call in Tokyo, but didn't get around to it until May. It was very difficult to grapple with that, because my friend and I were a lot alike. But I had met Christ, and she had not, and from that point on we began to grow apart. Yet I so clearly saw her joy, saw her receiving Him. I took that vision back to God and left it with Him, because I barely know how to make sense of it. I leave it with Him, and I know His grace is capable of reaching people in the worst situations, and that the grace of intercession He poured through me was not without effect. Thank You, Jesus. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1851 Registered: 3-2005 |
Ramone, Thanks for that heartfelt post above. I would only give one caution flag, and that is this statement you made: "Before leaving I had attended a "God Chasers" meeting (I recommend the original book by Tommy Tenney by that name), and the whole the way up I had been in God's presence." Unfortunately Tommy Tenney is a oneness pentecostal, which means he denies the doctrine of the Trinity, and therefore is outside the pale of Christian orthodoxy. Sorry if this comes across as judgmental, but there are some essentials of the faith that must be contended for. Blessings to you, Stan | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 158 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dear Stan, Thank you for your concern, but please note I recommend the book, not the man. I don't know much about him and---forgive me---I don't care because I'm not after Tenney. I'm after God. All I know is that I read the book, and I can witness that there is a God-given hunger and passion that pours off its pages. It's the cry of a rising generation that wants God Himself instead of many pieces of clinical information about Him. I have more I'm dying to share here about God's heart---personal things which I don't know how to describe. For that reason I want to try and keep the thread focused on the heart of God, and I pray that everyone see the "heart" of the message that I wrote instead of the peripherals. In Christ, your brother Ramone | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 261 Registered: 6-2005 |
Ramone, your post reminds me of a song by Chuck Girard. I am so moved when I hear this song. Truly so much of what God gives me is impossible to put into words, yet I long to try to share with others some of the things (but not all) that the Lord has blessed me with in His presence. This song talks about this in a way I think you will appreciate. I WILL (Chuck Girard) I will love You forever and I will need You forever and I will want You forever 'Til the end of time There are secrets inside my heart Meditations and works of art Private pictures of grace and beauty unfold.....ing Secret colors that none can see, Holy things between You and me These are some of the things meant only for You (CHORUS) There are songs no one else will hear I try to catch them but they disappear Elusive moments of beauty passing beyond me Sounds of silence in the still of night Symphonic passages of great delight Fleeting glimpses of a time that still is beyond CHORUS (c)1995 Sea of Glass Music/ASCAP Go to his website, and he has guitar chords! This song is from voice of the wind album. Lori | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 166 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks, Lori! The expression about trying to catch a disappearing song in the last verse reminds me of what Bono (lead singer of U2) describes in a book I'm reading of interviews with him... he talks about trying to capture this melody inside of him. It's a fun read, and unexpected... since he's a "rock star", it's really strange at first to hear him talking about God, faith, and Scripture so much... but then God is helping me realize that Bono and I know the same Guy----God. And He's just truly awesome. ***** I don't know how to talk about this stuff... the things deep inside the heart, the things God's put in me, and the things that I'm crying to let out. There's a burden inside, and even as I speak of it now, the Spirit unleashes my spirit and I begin to cry... (sometimes He does that, so I know I'm supposed to share it with you). With "you"... I suppose you all are my family. Forgive me for saying "I suppose", but let's say I'm just slow to realize this and really let out my heart here. It's easy to let out doctrine, you know? But it's something much different to let out my heart. There is this place three blocks from where I work here in Osaka... it's a nearly hundred-year-old prostitution district. I feel God has called me here to pray for this place---for the people there. I wrote a bit of how I found that place in "my story" on one of my blogs, and the place has been a point of intercession so much that it's shown up in a lot of pictures I've drawn. At times I feel God's heart pouring through me, and honestly I don't know what to do! I want to explode. I want to pour out my life for those people. I suppose this is what I wanted to share here... it's that beating of His heart, His heart pouring through you so much that it hurts. I don't know what to say, but I just wanted to share and of course ask for prayer. Please share with me any thoughts, prayers, impressions, or anything. Thanks. In Him, Ramone | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4311 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ramone, thank you for sharing your intercession for that stronghold of prostitution and bondage. I just read an incident in Greg Taylor's new book manuscript. Greg has a gift of prayer ministry and intercession. The incident to which I refer was of a woman who had believed God had called her especially to a ministry of prayer intercession, but she had been nearly paralyzed by depresseon and doubt that God was really asking her to pray. Yet as Greg and a couple of others prayed, she began to cry and admitted to them (they had not previously known this) that God had called her to a ministry of prayer, and she had been believing that she could or should not do it. She experienced such a deep release from depression and resistanceóand she is today a powerful woman of God who does pray for many people and situations. I realize that in my Adventist background, I learned to be suspicious all forms of Spiritual gifting that were not rooted, somehow, in intellectual "knowing". Interceding for peopleówhether that is our primary spiritual gift or notóis nevertheless God's command to all His people. Right in the passage about the armor of God Paul says, "And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints" (Eph 6:18). I have experienced that feeling of being "poured out", for lack of a better term, while praying for different people, RamoneóI understand what you are talking about. And I also realize that God specifically gifts each of us to do things He decidesóthese gifts don't necessarily have anything to do with the ways we have been formally trained. We really do experience His heart when we are submitted to Him and allowing Him to equip us for whatever He is asking us to do. I know I am grateful beyond words can possibly say for those who pray for us and for this ministry and for Proclamation. Your prayers are the ministry's power and the protection and the means of preparing hearts and enabling God's truth to be clearly spoken. Colleen | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 82 Registered: 7-2005 |
Your experiences of the overwhelming awareness of God's presence sound so much like my own. I am prompted to ask, "Are you brave enough to allow God to give you the gift of tongues, if that is what He wants for you?" When I finally told Him I was ready to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit, He plunged me in so deeply, I could hardly breathe. I was electrified spiritually. I was absolutely overwhelmed with His power. I really thought I would die, if I couldn't release the power coursing through me. I asked Him to help me endure the intensity, but I didn't ask Him to lessen it any. It was too beautiful an experience to let it go, but it was too intense to let it continue. So I asked Him what I should do, and He told me to give Him my mouth. I said, "OK, Lord, it's all yours." He said to open it and He would give me the words to say. So that is what I did, and a beautiful language came rolling out of my mouth. As the Lord spoke His heavenly language through my mouth, the intensity of the power finally had an outlet and I was able to keep from having a meltdown. This initial experience took place in 1972 -- over 30 years ago. To this day, I still have this gift and use it daily for maintaining my connection to God and for intercessory prayer. You may read more details at www.honestwitness.com. If anyone would like to correspond with me personally, I would welcome your messages to fileservice@ureach.com. Honestwitness | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 175 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks Colleen & Honestwitness! Honestwitness--- Thank you, I did read your article about it on your website some few days ago. Earlier I asked if you wouldn't mind me referring people to your page, and actually I asked that because you described so well the experience of being overwhelmed by the Spirit to the point of Him pouring out of you in tongues... which is something I've experienced but have not found a better description of than the one you gave. I'll share parts of an email I sent to some friends for prayer. I wrote it last October, a week after my spiritual brother RK and I prayer-walked through Tobita-shinchi for the first time. The first time I saw the place it was shocking, and I came home and cried (myself, and in the Spirit). Walking with RK was actually the second time I'd been there. It was also shocking, but in a different and more spiritually dark way, I think. I described it in this email a little, as viewed from the other side of hope:
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| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 176 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hmm, this picture seems to go along very well with that email I just shared: http://art-for-jesus.blogspot.com/2006/03/walking-by-day.html | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 89 Registered: 7-2005 |
Of course you may refer others to my web site. I'm honored that you would ask. Your testimony above is very, very encouraging to me. Not many people I know share experinces like this with me. It is very good to know there are others in this wide world who are interceding in the Spirit for large groups of people. HW | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1898 Registered: 3-2005 |
Here is a song that spoke to my heart tonight, and it comes from a new CD produced by Sovereign Grace Ministries, as they are featuring a new worship CD that contains Puritans prayers recorded in song. This is supposed to be a marvelous CD. This song is called "Precious Blood" Before the cross I kneel and see The measure of my sin How You became a curse for me Though You were innocent The magnitude of Your great love Was shown in full degree When righteous blood, the crimson spill Rained down from Calvary Chorus Oh, the precious blood That flowed from Mercyís side Washed away my sin When Christ my Savior died Oh, the precious blood Of Christ the crucified It speaks for me before Your throne Where I stand justified Verse 2 And who am I that I should know This treasure of such worth My Saviorís pure atoning blood Shed for the wrath Iíd earned For sin has stained my every deed My every word and thought What wondrous love that makes me one Your priceless blood has bought Bridge A crown of thorns, pierced hands and feet A body bruised, and Mercyís plea You can download the actual music from this link: http://theologica.blogspot.com/2006/07/precious-blood.html Stan | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 181 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks for the song, Stan! I'm downloading it now (it'll be a miracle if it makes it through my shaky connection unmolested, though, haha). The Puritans! What a testimony of grace! One author whose book I enjoyed about (passion for Jesus) really was inspired by the Puritans. Yet whenever I had looked at their beliefs, I saw legalism after legalism. And I remember on some site reading of how they massacred Native Americans while they were sleeping and gave glory to God for it. Yet in spite of all these things, God loved them (as He loves me) and as He loves the people who are in Tobita-shinchi (the prostitution district of Osaka). One thing that really shocked me was once when I was walking nearly the length of the city. I saw some of the many smutty areas of Osaka---"hostess bars", porn clubs, porn video shops, "massage" parlors, etc. I was praying the whole time I was walking, and when I saw one of these areas near Shin-Osaka, I began praying for them... I was saying something like, "Lord, cleanse them from their filthiness" or wickendess or something along those lines, when the Spirit suddenly stopped me. He said something like, "Don't call filthy what I've cleansed." Now I don't want to focus on what kind of doctrine this might or might not imply, because it was the heart of it that convicted me. These were people God loves!! He has died for them! How do I know who will and will not believe? All I know is that He died to purchase them, and whether they choose to accept His ownership or reject Him, He has loved them. How are my own sins any "cleaner" than theirs? The same blood of Christ that cleanses me is available to them. God shifted my attitude really quickly about them, and I haven't prayed for them the same since. Now that I think about it the doctrinal aspect isn't so strange after all. The Spirit called the Gentiles clean before Peter got anywhere near Cornelius' house. It's not just a Jew/Gentile issue, because like us, the Jews too were "unclean" (what comes out of all of our hearts makes us unclean). God's point, I believe, was to get us away from judging about who is cleansed and who is not ("The Lord knows who are His"). God re-focused Peter to get him walking toward those He wanted to save, and maybe in some similar way God was re-focusing me to get me praying for those He wants to save. It was less dramatic than what happened with Peter & the Gentiles, but still very startling to me. The startling thing was just His heart! The moment the Spirit spoke, my heart was exposed---and His heart was exposed to me! I noticed that so often I used to pray for people in a very condemning way... "Lord, show them the truth so they can leave their sin! Bring them to Your truth and cleanse them from their falseness!" and things like that. You know, doctrinally speaking, there is nothing wrong with this prayer. But the difference in the Spirit is life and death. In one sense I'm looking down on them and condescendingly praying for them---I'm caring then more about their assention to "truth" than I am about them. In that way, I am not praying for them at all, because I care about "truths" more than I care about them. On the other hand, I've begun to learn how to pray from God's heart---from His heart that loves sinners and is breaking for them. One prayer comes from care about truths, and another comes from actually loving them. I can guess which prayer touches God's heart more! The grace of the song Stan posted---it's something I accepted for myself, but when praying for "them", I realized I'm the same as they are. Will I revel in my cleaning or will I choose to pray for the same mercy (as in the song) for them? Without fully being able to explain it, I think that this kind of prayer is far more effective than the lofty kind of prayer for them to leave sin and accept the right truth. We have a God who looks to the heart, who is looking for ways to get people into heaven more than ways to keep them out. We have a God who considered many incorrect Samaritans more righteous than many correct law-keeping Jews. I can't get over it! Sorry for rambling so much. I pray that somehow it helped show the contrast between two types of prayer: one is from our perspective of who is right and who is sinful, and the other is from God's heart---from a God who gave His Son for the world! A God who wants all people to be saved and to come to know Him! A God who died for us long before we ever knew Him, long before we ever sinned! As He has loved us, He's calling us to love them. He's awesome. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 568 Registered: 8-2004  |
Amen Ramone! Thank you for sharing this. It has spoken to me this morning. Blessings, Mary PS: Speaking of intercessory prayer, ever read or heard of "Reec Howells: Intercessor", by Norman Percy Grubb? I heard it on tape as a young teenager so can't give you an adult opinion on it, but what you speak of in interceeding reminds me of things from his experiences told in the book. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1899 Registered: 3-2005 |
Ramone, Unfortunately there has been some revisionist history giving the Puritans a bad rap they don't deserve. Theologically, their writings are as "pure" (pun intended) as any. John Bunyan was a classic example of great theological writing including "Pilgrim's Progress". John Owen was a wonderful writer. They could tend to be legalistic, but they obeyed God because they were eternally saved, not to stay saved, the way some legalistic churches (SDA and Pentecostal and others) do. Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4333 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ramone, thank you for your insightful post. I've begun to realize, over the past couple of years or more, that even when I'm dealing with what I consider to be unfair treatment or another's sin, I can't just pray for themóI have to be willing to pray for me to be willing to act lovingly and to know God's will for me at that moment. If I'm praying for God to "fix" the other person, I'm completely missing what He's trying to do in me. He is asking me not to automatically go on the defensive to uphold my "rights". He is asking me to submit to Him, to give up my anger or defensiveness or hurt feelingsóeven if they are "justified"óand allow Him to give me His perspective and to show me how to pray for the other. Great thoughts, Ramone. Colleen | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 184 Registered: 10-2002 |
Colleen--- I'm always amazed by your ability to sum up the giant length of what I've written with a few poignant sentences! Thanks! | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 323 Registered: 10-2002 |
I drew a picture about the disciple John here, which touches on some of this stuff: http://art-for-jesus.blogspot.com/2006/09/john.html Any thoughts? |
