| Author | Message | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2006  |
Hello everybody Yesterday I had a friend over as well as my Adventist friend, we watched the movie "Called to be free": http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4041034349913113656&q=called+to+be+free Afterwards we talked a bit about what we thought about the movie, of course my Adventist friend did not agree with many of the things in the movie. Anyways she "explained" the many SDA doctrins to me and my friend (who does not know that much about SDA) and we fell into the talk about clean and unclean foods. After reading the usual passages in the NT about all foods being clean she argued that by saying foods it was realy only the clean foods which was being refered to. But after seeing in ex 9:3 that food means every creature walking about .. she got very confused and upset. Anyways she continued saying something that it could not be proven from the bible that any christian actually ate unclean foods. Do any of you know any passage which shows a christian eating unclean foods? Also any passage which shows that a gentile eats unclean foods? Have a nice day! | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-1999 |
There's a verse in Genesis. Noah is told "EVERYTHING THAT LIVES AND MOVES WILL BE FOOD FOR YOU. Just as I gave you the green plants, I NOW GIVE YOU EVERYTHING." Gen. 9:3 Peter was given a vision in Acts 10:9-16 And, of course Romans 14 vs. 2 "one man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables." 1 Cor.8:8, "But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do." In Acts 15 (vs. 28-30) the council of Jerusalem determined the only "burdens" should be "abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality" (Please note: No mention of Sabbath keeping.) Also, there were no temples in Jerusalem where this practice took place so it was not difficult to avoid. Compare this with 1 Cor 8 where there were temples which sacrificed meats to the idols. The best and safest meats to eat had been sacrificed to idols and were available for purchase at the shambles (a meat market inside the temple). Paul tells the Corinithians that there is only one God in all the world and idols are nothing. He tells them that they CAN eat the meat. But to be careful and not bring a brother down because they have a weak faith (this correlates with Romans 14). There is no foundation for the Adventist belief of abstaining from certain foods. Infact, 1 Timothy 4:1-5 states that this teaching (abstaining from certain foods) is a "thing taught by demons". | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2006 |
Good morning Mwh! I just recently listened to a great Audio podcast on sdaoutreach.org about food laws. Just click on "Audio" in the menu on the right side of the page and scroll down 'til you find it. Pastor Martin has a great sermon about that, including of course, all the scriptures on the subject. Also, Stand To Reason's web site has some great articles and audio about how to witness effectively. You may not convince her now, but remember that you are planting seeds. You know that only God can change her mind. Hope that helps!  | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2006 |
Lori, you have a couple more scriptures than I could remember. Thanks! I'll add that to my food law notes. I've been having this same discussion with my husband recently. Have a great day! | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 74 Registered: 7-2005  |
MWH, to answer you question, I personally cannot find any incidence in the Bible that proves a Christian actually ate unclean foods. To answer your second question, I don't know of any verses that say, point blank, that the Gentiles ate unclean foods, but there are many passages to do imply it. To me, the only was to resolve this kind of issue is to agree to disagree, doing so respectfully, in love and consideration of the other person's view, as Paul advises in Romans 14. | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 70 Registered: 4-2006 |
Ah .. I meant gen 9:3 .. not ex 9:3 .. | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 71 Registered: 4-2006 |
Another thing is interesting about gen 9:3 .. is God giving as well all foods for animals? .. Like my SDA friend is sure that the animals did not eat other animals before Noah. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4184 Registered: 12-2003  |
Mwh, in Mark 17-19 Jesus says that nothing that enters a man can make him unclean, and at the end of v. 19 Mark writes, "In saying this, Jesus declared all foods 'clean'." Whether or not the Bible shows a Christian eating unclean food is a moot point. The real point is what the Bible teaches about food, and Lori's texts above are excellent. Your friend is confused by the Genesis text because it opposes Adventist teachingsóand Adventists seem almost never to "hear" about that text! It doesn't "fit" their worldview. Colleen | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 74 Registered: 4-2006 |
My friend thinks that Mark refers to the clean foods when talking about foods .. but the passage in gen 9:3 confuses her .. because it speaks directly against her understanding of food .. being only what lev teaches and vegetables and fruts. I think her mind is trying to focus on something else than this fact and she begins to talk about if animals was eating meat or not before Noah. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4187 Registered: 12-2003 |
Mwh, your friend's reaction is not likely to improve with logic. She is suffering under a spiritual delusion, and she desperately WANTS the Bible to teach that Christians can't eat unclean meats. She needs to believe those were not laws just for Israel. I'm sure you've planted a seed that will disturb her. She needs prayer that she will be willing to see and know the truth of the Bible. Praying now... Colleen | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-1999 |
One of the problems with Adventist viewpoint is that everything BEGINS with Israel. The basis for everything is simple...the instructions given to Israel ALWAYS existed. One of Ellen White's books begins with Israel and then proceeds to Genesis. I can't remember which one. Since I have left "the church" it amazes me how I ever believed all the twisted doctrines in the first place. (I believed it because I never read it for myself...I let them tell me what it meant.) Adventist are Israel. Why?? Why would you want to be Israel? Why would you strife to be the adulterous wife when you are supposed to be the bride of Christ? They acheive this very well. They are the adulterous wife. The Sabbath and abstaining from foods are the idols they serve. They consider their form of morality and sacrifice to be synonymous with spirituality. What they do not realize is their morality and sacrifice mimics the religious UN-believer. And the spiritual way of life is NOT something an unbeliever can do. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hey Lori! I like the way you put that, and you've asked a very good question. It really addresses the church's arrogance. Do you know if there are scriptures that refer to Isreal as "the adulterous wife", Or was that a figure of speech? Sorry if the question is silly... I've just never thought of the church in that light. | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-1999 |
Grace_alone, It's not a silly question. Israel, and Judah, are refered to as a "harlot" in the OT and the book of Hosea is about the "adulterous wife". Francine Rivers has a wonderful book called "Redeeming Love" which is based on the book of Hosea. Why do the Adventist want to name themselves as a "modern-day Israel"? Israel was not an "good example"; they, more often than not, were a "horrible warning". | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4197 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lori, what great insights about Adventism and the "adulterous wife" and their claiming to be Israel. I'd never thought about it quite that way before. Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2006 |
Lori, thanks for your answer. I want to remember that if the subject ever arises in my circles. My thoughts in the SDA church referring to themselves as modern-day Isreal were always "Why would you want to go backward?" By the way, "Reedeeming Love" is my FAVORITE book! I've read almost all of Francine Rivers' books and I've even shared that as well as the "Mark of the Lion Trilogy" with my Adventist neices. Colleen, if you've never read these books, check them out. They're wonderful. I'm not an avid reader, but once I picked these up I couldn't put them down! I hope you all have a wonderful day. Leigh Anne | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 141 Registered: 10-2002 |
LOL! My policy is to eat now and, if needed, repent later. Woody Allen said "anyone can live to be a hundred, all you have to do is give up everything that would make you want to live to a hundred." | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2254 Registered: 11-2002 |
To tell my SDA loved ones that Jesus declaired all foods clean just gets those asdventists riled up. They then say, "Yes, He said all FOODS are clean. Pork IS NOT food." And, that settles any further discussion on the matter. After I grew up and had my own dwelling my parents regurally would do their pork checks at my house when they'd come over. They are/were very intense about that issue to the point of very dear loved ones telling me that the Moslems and Hindus are more right with God in His favor than people who claim to be Christian who eat the unclean meats because non-Christians who don't eat the unclean meats are just plain and simple more in God's favor. It's just way far out! | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 459 Registered: 2-2001 |
Food sounds like an idol to me for these souls. They put food above the cross---how sad! | ||
| Nicole Registered user Username: Nicole Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2006 |
those are the things that really bother me-food or the day one formally worships on being the central thing they got from the new testament. not Christ's love for us. give me a break. | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 460 Registered: 2-2001 |
I guess no Dominoes' garlic sauce for Adventist. This is what their nutritional stats say "Does your garlic sauce contain animal derivatives? NO. Our garlic sauce contains lactic acid, but this is not classified as an animal derivative because it has been fermented. " It may be classified as Vegan, but it has been fermented!!! Could you get drunk from too much???;) | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 461 Registered: 2-2001 |
Correction that is Papa Johns Pizza--I still don't know how to edit a post |
