| Author |
Message |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2226
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 4:24 pm: |     |
Brian4,
Read the books of Hebrews and Galatians. I could quote a lot from them and that would take up space. I think it is better if you read them, in the quiet of your home. That way, you can use a marker, as I do, when I read my Bible.
God bless you as you read His book.
Diana |
Brian4
Registered user
Username: Brian4
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 9:01 pm: | |
Flyinglady,
I love the books you have suggested and can quote from them as well. I have studied them with an open heart and the Holy Spirit has impressed upon my heart that the Law is written in my heart and mind so I do not want to sin against God or my fellow man. The point of the questions I ask is to get people to think and to search the scriptures for themselves to find the wonderful truth of Gods Holy Word. I still have to ask, do you think it is ok to transgress any of Gods Law? Is it permissible to kill, steal, lie, etc.? Harden not your hearts to the truth! Sin is the transgression of the law, including the 4th commandment. I love the Lord Jesus and he has established the New Covenant by his death. His shed blood and broken body are more than sufficient to cover my sin and the sins of the entire world.
Heb. 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Hebrews 4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Brian4 says: You must read the text without any preconceived notion of eliminating that which you no longer wish to keep or do! The text state the obvious there is still a day of rest as there was from the beginning not to be confused with the finished work of the plan of salvation established before the foundation of the world. I do not keep the day in a legalistic way nor do I think I can keep it Holy as God is Holy not man. However I accept the gift of the special DAY that God blessed and made Holy. This is not to be confused with resting in the finished work of atonement performed perfectly by Christ on the cross for the sins of the whole world.
Therefore my question is still, Is it ok to steal, lie, covet, kill(murder)? NO Jesus came to magnify the Law not to change it or do away with it. Should we sin because we are no longer under the penelty of the Law? God forbid! Yes strong language indeed, God Forbid! Not out of fear but out of love.
Heb. 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3263
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 10:30 pm: | |
Brian4, as has been quoted elsewhere recently on this forum, even the SDA Bible Commentary says that Hebrews 4 is about our spiritual rest in the finished work of Christ, not about keeping the seventh day.
When John uses the word "commandments", he uses the Greek word "entole" which means "teachings" or "sayings". When he refers to the law of the Old Testament, he uses the word "nomos". Jesus Himself identified the new commandment He gave us: "Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another" (John 13:34). What an impossible command: to love with the sacrificial selflessness of Jesusóimpossible, that is, without the indwelling Holy Spirit who tranforms us with the resurrection power that raised Christ from the dead.
God's moral requirements do not reside in the Ten Commandments. They reside in God Himself. God revealed them specifically when He gave Israel the Mosaic Covenant, and He revealed them to convict Israel of their innate sinfulness and to cause them to recognize that they could not accomplish themójust as we cannot accomplish loving as Christ loveóapart from God's own power in us.
If the Ten Commandments are eternal, then they would have to be another "god". Only God is eternal and unending. His attributes and righteousness are eternal in Himóbut the Decalogue was clearly given at a specific time until a specific event occurredóthe incarnation of Jesus (Galatians 3:17-19).
The ending of the authority of the law does not mean morallity ended. On the contrary, moralityówhich originates and resides in God Himselfóis what the Holy Spirit writes on our hearts and personally teaches us to honor.
With the completion of Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension, we now have a new authority: Jesus Himselfóthe fulfillment of the law. The law is not necessary in order for us to live righteous lives. The law, in fact, NEVER played a part in our living righteous lives. It merely made us aware of sin and let us know we stood under a curse for our sin.
Jesus, however, became that curse (Gal. 3:13) and paid the price of our intrinsic sin. Now we can become the righteousness of God (2 Cor. 5:21). The law has no more authority over us when we are born again in Christ. Jesus, the law's fulfillment, has removed the curse of the law, and the Holy Spirit is the Law written on our hearts.
No, the law cannot be a separate eternal reality. Only God is eternal. The law he gave Israel was His method of revealing their deep sinfulness and the standard to which they had failed to live. It was given to teach and remind Israel that a Redeemer was needed and was coming.
Once the Redeemer came, however, the need for the revelation of Him was gone. Now we look to Him, and we rest 24/7 in His finished work.
God is TRIune, not QAUTrune. The law is not eternal. God and His eternal morality and righteousness are eternal. We do not honor the law when the God of the universe has come and taken personal responsibility for us. Now we honor Him!
Colleen |
Jeremiah
Registered user
Username: Jeremiah
Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 11:04 pm: | |
I was doing some research and discovered yet another document in Christian history, this one by Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons, extant only in an Armenian translation. The "Demonstration of Apostolic Preaching", it is an exposition of the Christian faith to a fellow believer, written about 180 AD. This was written before even the doctrine of the Trinity was defined by the church. Here's a portion of the document that relates to this discussion;
Wherefore also we need not the Law as a tutor. Behold, with the Father we speak, and in His presence we stand, being children in malice, and grown strong in all righteousness and soberness. For no longer shall the Law say, Do not commit adultery, to him who has no desire at all for anotherís wife; and Thou shalt not kill, to him who has put away from himself all anger and enmity; (and) Thou shalt not covet thy neighborís field or ox or ass, to those who have no care at all for earthly things, but store up the heavenly fruits: nor An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, to him who counts no man his enemy, but all men his neighbors, and therefore cannot stretch out his hand at all for vengeance. It will not require tithes of him who consecrates all his possessions to God, leaving father and mother and all his kindred, and following the Word of God. And there will be no command to remain idle for one day of rest, to him who perpetually keeps sabbath, that is to say, who in the temple of God, which is manís body, does service to God, and in every hour works righteousness. For I desire mercy, He saith, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. But the wicked that sacrificeth to me a calf is as if he should kill a dog; and that offereth fine flour, as though (he offered) swineís blood. But whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. And there is none other name of the Lord given under heaven whereby men are saved, save that of God, which is Jesus Christ the Son of God, to which also the demons are subject and evil spirits and all apostate energies.
There's lots and lots of historical evidence about what Christians believed about the Sabbath, and it doesn't appear to support the SDA position to me!
Jeremiah |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 737
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 9:47 am: | |
I love that!!!! Good research Jeremiah! |
Jackob
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Username: Jackob
Post Number: 76
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 11:25 am: | |
It was a very unpleasant surprise for the members of Sabbath School group in which I have been member, to read for them 1 Corinthians 9:20,21
Quoting Paul, I emphasized that Paul is still under a law called the law of Christ, but this law is not the law of Moses, "I am not under the law", said Paul. Here we have 2 laws which are not identical. Two laws of God. The first is the law of Moses, including the 10 commandments (Romans 7:7), the second is the law of love of Christ.
We are definitely under a law, but this law is not identical with the law of Moses, including the 10 commandments. We are not free to sin. We are under a better law, because, like Collen said, we are guided by Christ Who is eternal.
From the time I said this in Sabbath School, I have enemies. I said that the law is not eternal, the Sabbath had definitely a beginning in time, after creation, if not after Moses (the command to keep the Sabbath is given at the Sinai, not at creation, and we have no evidence in the Bible that a human keep the Sabbath until Moses). To love one another and love God supremely is a eternal law, but the angels didn't kept the Sabbath. It is not eternal. They love one another and God, but not worship on Sabbath.
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Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 738
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 2:10 pm: | |
Jeremiah...I sent your post to my SDA preacher/brother...here is his response:
The same command that tells us to rest on the Sabbath, tells us to work the other six days. If I rest on any of the other six days I have broken the commandment just as I break it if I work (engage in gainful employment not neccesitated by demands of mutual existance in an organized society) on the Sabbath. I'm afraid Bishop Lyons' theology doesn't stand up to even a surface reading of scripture. "If they speak not according to this word, there is no light in them".
Ugh! Typical!!! Do you realize this logic only reinforces that we humans cannot possibly keep the commandments!!! So now we must work 6-day a week?!?! |
Dane
Registered user
Username: Dane
Post Number: 118
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 4:01 pm: | |
Pheeki, In reading the response of your brother, I find it interesting that he does not address what Jeremiah's post was addressing.
Dane |
Dane
Registered user
Username: Dane
Post Number: 119
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 4:07 pm: | |
Jackob, I'm happy to see that you have introduced the Sabbath School to 1 Cor. 9: 20,21.
As an SDA I attended SDA schools from 1st grade on. I cannot recall ever being exposed to texts like this. If we were, it was glossed over or twisted with the SDA interpretation. The standard method was proof-texting.
Dane
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Dane
Registered user
Username: Dane
Post Number: 120
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 4:10 pm: | |
Buzz,
Is this a nickname that you were known by at AU in the early '70's. I attended AU 71-78.
Dane |
Jeremiah
Registered user
Username: Jeremiah
Post Number: 25
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 4:25 pm: | |
To me it's so interesting that not only could these early Christians see the spiritual meaning behind the Sabbath, but even us modern Christians can see the same thing if we study. But there are some who cannot see.
I would like to have the "faith of our fathers", personally. In the time when Irenaeus lived, there were virtually no "nominal" Christians... and most church leaders were martyred. One didn't become Christian out of convenience in those times. I suppose this fact has something to do with the lack of the "cheap grace" concept in their writings.
Jeremiah |
Jeremiah
Registered user
Username: Jeremiah
Post Number: 26
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 4:48 pm: | |
Did you notice the Sriptural allusions in that piece by Irenaeus? Specifically this;
MT 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
MT 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
MT 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
MT 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
MT 12:9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
MT 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
MT 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
MT 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
See? Our body is God's temple, and we work righteousness under the authority and direction of Jesus who is greater than the temple, therefore we are blameless for working on the Sabbath. For the Christian, everything they do should fall under the classification of "doing well", and it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath days.
It's not THAT hard to see this, is it? 
Jeremiah |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 417
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 10:37 pm: | |
I was reading the Expositors Bible and stumbled onto this quote that closes the gospel of Luke:
'The Light which threw the glory of the Sabbath into the shade, was the glory of the Risen Lord'.
Bill |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2228
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 5:49 pm: | |
Bill,
That quote is one that really tells it like it is, "The Light which threw the glory of the Sabbath into the shade, was the glory of the Risen Lord".
Diana |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1219
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 6:14 pm: | |
Loneviking, That is a great quote. Who was the quote attributed to?
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3274
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 9:26 pm: | |
Wow, Bill--wonderful quote.
Colleen |
Loneviking
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Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 418
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 8:36 am: | |
The Rev. Henry Burton, of the Wesleyan Methodist church wrote the commentary for the Gospel of Luke. The quote is his. There is a lot of great reading in the Expositors Bible.... |
Lindylou
Registered user
Username: Lindylou
Post Number: 113
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 9:15 pm: | |
In response to this question:
do you think it is ok to transgress any of Gods Law? Is it permissible to kill, steal, lie, etc
Have I lost salvation if I kill? Does Grace disappear if I take the Lord's name in vain, or tell a lie or take something that doesn't belong to me? Will I be eternally damned if I am disrespectful to my parents? Will I be kept from heaven if I don't keep the 7th day as a holy day? ect..????
The above is just a word game. As a believer in God's saving Grace, all those questions are mute points. Accepting the free gift of salvation has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I DO or Don't DO! The list of laws becomes so inconsequential in light of God's saving Grace. It is about something so much bigger and more encompassing! When one follows the new commandment of "Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and soul." ..... you have a basic principal of daily living that obscures any nitpicky laws.
SDA's have always taught salvation and works in a single breath - as one entity. The Bible teaches salvation apart from works - and holy living as a result of the work of the Holy Spirit. If you want to get "technical" - I believe that I can say the words.. Killing, stealing, lying, cheating, adultry... will not take away my Salvation. Nothing can do that. But the bottom line is that if I truly understand God's Grace.... those things are no longer my main focus. I will slip and make mistakes, but I know that I am still under Grace. I will ask forgiveness many times and shake my head in wonder that God could possibly love me - such a sinner - but I know without a shadow of a doubt that HE DOES LOVE ME - and He has SECURED my salvation! What an awesome God I have! |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 902
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 9:28 am: | |
Lindylou, you have struck the nail on the head. Adventists have the equation all backwards. It is Holy Spirit first, and Holy Living will result from that.
It is a faith issue. A surrender to the Holy Spirit issue. Simply trust the Savior to save you issue. So sad that it is escaping them.
All those wilderness years that the Isrealites had, and then the years following their entry into the promised land where they had to hide in caves (during the years of the judges), and on and on. God's chosen people were mere characatures of what it looks like when humans take the lead at achieving holiness. They tried to achieve it in so many different ways, but they failed with every effort. Even the chosen people in Christ's day, who had gotten really good at superficial living, hadn't found true rest until the sat down at Jesus' feet. That's where I want to spend the rest of my days. |
Brian4
Registered user
Username: Brian4
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 7:14 pm: | |
Lindylou,
I agree that the result of being saved will produce with the Holy Spirits power good works. Not faith and works saves us as some (most) SDA's believe. But that faith alone apart from works save us. I have no doubt at all that I am saved by the grace of God through faith alone in Christ. However you can not tell me that willful sin is OK in light of Hebrews 10:26. Please!
Also to say that the Sabbath will not remain in effect for all eternity is absolutely unbiblical! Please refresh your memory and read the following bible text, it is not my opinion it is a biblical fact. Isa.66:22-24 ì For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me,î says the LORD, ì So shall your descendants and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,î says the LORD. 24 ì And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.î
Please try and explain this away! The Sabbath was made for man, Jesus Christ is the Lord also of the Sabbath and you can not change these biblical facts. The Sabbath was made at Creation blessed sanctified hallowed. Keeping it will not save you! It is out of love for God and not any other reason He wants us to enjoy His rest as He rested. Not to be confused with the plan of Salvation that was laid BEFORE the foundation of the world. I rest in the finished work of Jesus perfect sacrifice on my behalf. This plan was made before the foundation of the world. The Sabbath rest was created after the world was made and we will observe it in eternity (a day) as clearly as Isa. 66:23 can state it! So why reject something so beautiful that God created and made for US!
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Brian4merSDA still following Jesus!
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Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 630
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 7:26 pm: | |
Brian,
Are you saying that we will still have one day above another in Heaven? To me, the Isa. text tells me of a continual worship - from new moon to new moon...from month to month and day to day and hour to hour...always and forever.
If all man kind is coming to bow down before Him, is that just one day or is it all day, every day?
I hope I am not limited to just one day of praising Him and worshipping Him and thanking Him...I will continue into forever with my adoration...
Resting in Him 24/7,
Denise |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1258
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 7:35 pm: | |
And Brian4, How come you don't keep the New Moon festival now? This Isaiah passage can be interpreted in the context of a millenial kingdom, or is a spiritual context as Dd pointe out. But when you go to Revelation and read the description of the New Earth, it clearly says that there will be no night there. If there is no night, then there can be no sunset, and you could not possibly keep the Sabbath without a sunset. We will have our eternal Sabbath rest. What relevance does the moon have in that context?
Stan |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1259
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 8:27 pm: | |
And just one other thing Brian4,
When I was studying this topic just after getting out of SDA, I had exactly the same thoughts as you expressed above. However, when It really hit me was when I compared Isaiah 66 to Col. 2:16,17 "Let no man judge you with regard to New Moons or Sabbath days, these are only a shadow..." And of course the substance is of Christ. We no longer need to be chasing the shadows when we have the substance.
Stan |
Lindylou
Registered user
Username: Lindylou
Post Number: 126
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 10:39 pm: | |
Brian4: I must ask you: If I choose not to celebrate the Saturday Sabbath, have I lost my salvation? a simple YES OR NO.
As soon as you put one teeny tiny condition or stipulation or rule down for me to keep in order to stay saved, you've negated the whole concept of Grace - in your own words: "I am saved by the Grace of God through faith ALONE in Christ." And yet you follow with what I call "doublespeak".
The fact of the matter is that in accepting God's free Grace, I now choose to operate on the principal of love. If everything I do and say and choose is based on that principal, it entails MORE than just keeping a list of 10.
The bottom line however is that ONLY God can judge my heart. There is no room for me to judge another, nor can any other human determine whether or not I am saved. When it comes to the issue of salvation, no person can dictate any kind of rule for me to follow. This is the paradox of Grace. It takes away any kind of measuring stick that humans would like to use on each other. Salvation has absolutely NOTHING to do with me! And everything to do with God!
I have civil laws to follow - with consequences if I don't follow them. There are "rules" of healthful living that may affect my quality of life. And there are choices that I make day to day that affect the quality of my relationships with both God and man. But all of these things are apart from salvation.
We all know that the Sabbath issue is the last great hurdle in our journey into Grace. If you asked me just a few years ago, whether I would ever give up my "day of rest" I would have called you crazy! I could never understand why anyone would want to abandon the sabbath. But I get it now. I've not abandoned anything... I've ADDED! Instead of resting in Jesus one day a week, I rest with Him 7 days a week!
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3321
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 11:10 pm: | |
The real issue with Isaiah 66:22-24, as I see it, is that Revelation is SO CLEAR that we will not have night in heaven. Revelation 21:22-25 and 22:4-5 clearly declare, "There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light."
Without night, there is no change of days. Eternity is not endless time; eternity has no passing time. That text is Isaiah has to be able to be read with an understanding of all the OT shadows being fulfilled in Jesus, or it is a non-sequiter.
Colossians 2:16-17 clearly says that Sabbaths and feast days were shadows of the reality found in Christ. That understanding was not revealed until Jesus came and completed His redemption of us. Prior to the coming of Jesus, the only way Sabbath rest could be spoken of was in the language of the shadow Sabbaths given to Israel.
Clearly, there will be no seventh days in the new earth. Jesus, however, will be eternally present with us. We will worship Him our true Sabbath rest, eternally. Isaiah is a prophetic passage using the language Israel knew.
As Stan said, new moons would be as meaningless as Sabbath days in a place where there is no night.
Colleen |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1269
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 6:52 pm: | |
And what do you do with Romans 14 if there is ONE holy day that is not optional? |
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