| Author | Message | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1225 Registered: 7-2003  |
We were talking about "Christmas" today at work. The topic came up from one of the guys talking about a history channel show telling how puritans viewed Christmas. They saw it as an English holiday, therefore something bad...as all things from England were. According to this show (and I don't personally know) there wasn't the big history of gift giving until more modern times. The Charles Dickens "Christmas Story" is what really sparked Christmas more as we know it today. Through the conversation, I said something about the changing of the name from Christmas break to winter break in schools and a self-defined non-believer said it was stupid. He said Christmas is as much secular as religious these days and you really had to look to find any religious reference to it at all unless you went to a church. He said Christmas was Santa Claus and that had nothing to do with the religious history, making it not a separation of church-state issue. It seemed like an interesting topic for pondering here. So, I thought I'd pose a question about what Christmas has been and now is in your life? How do you celebrate it and what are your greatest memories? Are you distracted by the secularism of it in modern society or is it still a very simple meaning to your family, regardless of society? Do you decorate big or not at all ... and are their "religious" reasons you do/don't? I don't anticipate "right" or "wrong" answers. Just interested in what other families do. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2114 Registered: 3-2004  |
When my son was at home, I would read to him from the Bible the story of the birth of Jesus. I did this on Christmas Eve. I do not like the secular part of Christmas, but I know it will happen. I have a Christmas tree because I have small children come to visit occasionally. They are my sisters grandchildren. As a child, Christmas was about presents and Santa Claus. I did not want that for my son, even though I knew he would run into it. Now, it is a time to be with family, when all the family that can, can be together. I will not be with my son and his family but I will be with my sister and her family. When my son left home and could not be home for Christmas, I did not decorate or have a tree. Since last Christmas was my first as a born again Christian, I have not formed any traditions about it. I think this year I will do as I did when my son was home and read the story of Jesus birth on Christmas eve. I also want to wish all you lovely and loving, caring people a blessed, Christ filled, Merry, Happy Christmas. Jesus is the reason for the Season and I am so happy with Him. Diana | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 393 Registered: 7-2004  |
I don't mean to beat a sore point, but I think that when churches close for Christmas day it reinforces that idea that it is "secular" holiday, not specifically a Christian one. I think that it is easy for any of us to be caught up in the wordly trappings of Christmas. But it is also a chance to remember, and even witness about, the greatest Gift ever given. So the "typical" celebration and the giving of gifts can certainly have more of a meaning than just the secular trappings. As a kid, my favorite church service of the year was the midnight Christmas eve service. It was always such a joyful celebration from the snacks, hot chocolate, and such, down to the service itself (hint--I wasn't raised SDA!). And after the service we were allowed to pick out one gift that we could open before going to bed. Before we had kids, I could really pass on the whole decoration thing. But seeing the joy that it brings to the kids changes that, at least for me. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3085 Registered: 12-2003  |
I've always loved Christmas, but since I've come to know Jesus, it's become a poignant holiday. I've found that I lean away from the Santas and more secular symbols more than I used to, although I do use them. About the time we knew we would eventually leave the church (1997), we were faced a crisis. Richard's job faced huge changes, and we feared he would lose it completely if we left the church. I had a lot of angst about it. That year we bought a tree after dark one evening, and when we brought it home, it was crooked, dropped needles at an alarming rate, and by the next morning it hadn't drunk a drop of water. When we couldn't replace it with a similar tree (too late in the season!), we decided to make the best of it. That was four days after purchasing the tree. When we got home from our futile trip to the tree lot, I found that the tree had just then finihsed drinking the water in its stand that I had put in four days before. The stand was not dry; it was completely empty with a film of moisture on the bottm. I watered it, and that tree began to drink. I watered it every day for the rest of the season; it dropped no more needles; it was supple and fragrant, and it even stood firmly without wobbling. It was an amazing miracle, and I looked at that tree one evening with a sense of awe, thinking, "It's a tree of life; it's a resurrection tree!" At that moment I heard in my head, "Your bread and water will be sure." I realized that for some reason I couldn't explain, God gave us His promise for future care and provision by restoring a trivial, non-essential symbol of a Christmas tree! I've never been able to think of the tree as a pagan, non-Christian detail since then. God didn't do something "useful" like providing a fruit tree or restoring something functional. No, He showed us His power and mercy and gave us His promise by making a dead, crooked Christmas tree stand tall and drink. To me, a Christmas tree will always be a symbol of God's delight in us and in our honoring of Him and His incarnation. I've come to associate Christmas decorations etc. with God's lavish provision for us and of His equipping us to share and be hospitable with each other during this season as part of our honoring Him and of giving Him our lives and means. So that would be a Yes--I do decorate quite a bit! And we also open our home quite often during Christmas. Colleen | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 272 Registered: 5-2004 |
I grew up with a more simplistic view of Christmas. My family took the approach that Christmas was ok and we had fun and traditions, etc...we even decorated, but there was a certain air of reserve around it. However i married into a family that makes a HUGE deal out of every holiday and Christmas the most. Food, decorations, and gifts in abundance. It's a huge time of family traditions and togetherness. At first, I had a hard time adjusting. I was maybe even a little critical of the "abundance". But now I've grown to love it, and it is a very special time. There are few extended families as close these days as the one I was lucky enough to join. And despite all the fuss, they very much keep in mind the reason for the season. Despite my previous views on holidays and the secularism of them, Iíve grown to realize that that isnít necessarily a bad thing. God put a lot of traditions and little practices in place for the Jews and took much of their system from things around them that werenít necessarily ěholyî. Traditions are what bring people together and create awesome memories. So now I sit back, praise God for freedom and peace, and celebrate away! More than that even, now the nativity means so much more, and Stephen and I take extra time and attention in reading through the Christmas story in the Gospels. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 804 Registered: 7-2004 |
When I was little my parents were very strict about Christmas being a pagan holiday and so they never decorated or exchanged gifts (except with their co-workers). When I was five someone gave us a tree, complete with decorations, then when I was 12 my sister (who was seven years older) decided that she would do the Christmas decorating and such. Mom was never happy about that, same as she wasn't very happy about the tree when I was five, but she tolerated it until Dec. 26, then it was history! For me, Christmas was Ingathering and Caroling. I love to sing so I managed to get involved with Christmas programs in school and at church. The Christmas tree at Church was decorated with dollar bills (I'm sure you SDA's can relate to that one!). Christmas as it is practiced by most people was something other people and not for us. Once I got out on my own I started having a small tree (Charlie Brown Tree) in my apartment. After I got married and had kids we had the ritual of choosing a tree from a tree farm, right after Thanksgiving, and by Christmas Eve there were heaps of gifts under it. We would attend Christmas Eve services, then return home for the entire extended family to show up at our house where there would be food, laughter, and kids ripping through the paper to get to the gifts they had been begging for all month long. Christmas Day would find Santa's gifts under the tree, then it would be off to the Grandparent's house for roast turkey and football. I don't miss doing the Ingathering now--getting too old for all of that walking around, and singing in the cold. I do have a wonderful memory of caroling in a snow storm and being invited into the homes we were singing at for hot chocolate, or at least appreciated a bit more because we were determined to sing even though it was stormy. It's too bad that a beautiful symbol of salvation, our Lord's birth, has become so commercial that there isn't any room for Him in it anymore. I went to public school those years that our small church could not afford to support a church school, and I remember learning as much about the Christian traditions behind the carols we sang for the Christmas Programs as I would have at church in SDA schools, perhaps even more. It seemed to me that SDA's took advantage of everyone else's Christmas Cheer by Ingathering at that time, but had very little Christmas Cheer of their own. The older I got, the more elaborate the decorating was for our family as well as other SDA families, but it was never over-stated! It all came back to that tree in the sanctuary with the dollar bills hanging on it! | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 716 Registered: 1-2003 |
Ingathering for children is dangerous. I almost got abducted. This was back around 1978...this crazy looking guy answered the door...I held out my can and he tried to grab me and the can and pull me into the house. I ran...my brother was across the street and we ran together and hid under a bush. He and a woman got in their car and left...I don't know if they were afraid they were going to be in trouble or if they were looking for us. I had no way to contact my mother or the rest of the group so we laid low for a while and took off running. Scary. My mother never let us ingather again. Begging for a huge church that mispends the money is not worth putting your children in harms way. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1227 Registered: 7-2003 |
Okay, what is "ingathering"?? BTW, Colleen. I love that story about the Christmas tree. God truly does use anything to speak volumes. (Message edited by melissa on December 19, 2005) | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 808 Registered: 7-2004 |
Ingathering is the SDA practice of going door-to-door, particularly during the Christmas season, and asking for donations that are used to support missionary work (supposedly). These donations are asked of everyone in your town, whether they have anything to do with your church or not. Some people are very generous even though they aren't really sure why you are at their door. Few people will turn you away, and most will give a token donation much the same as the Salvation Army buckets gleen token gifts during the holidays. | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 240 Registered: 6-2001  |
My mom always told us growing up that Santa Claus was "bad" and so were songs associated with him,ie Rudolph and Santa Claus is coming to town. Because of that, I feel a slight twinge of guilt whenever I acknowledge the presence of Santa at all, and I vowed not to ever tell my daughter (just turned 3) that. But now I'm afraid I've swung too far the other way, and I don't know what to do. She has a very detailed understanding of Santa (not from me) even though we already have Christmas presents under the tree, and she knows who they are from. I don't know how to explain to her that this person that she knows so much about isn't real. Maybe I will try again next year ... Secularly, Hannah | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2116 Registered: 3-2004 |
I did not tell my son about Santa Claus until he was about 5 years old. He saw him at the shopping center, we had lived in the country and he had never been to a shopping center, and asked who he was. I told him that Santa is a pretend character that people like to think bring them presents on Christmas eve. I told him that Mommy and Daddy bought him presents to put under the tree, but that we are really celebrating the birth of Jesus. He never liked Santa Claus and is not teaching his son about him, with his wife's agreement. I told him that if he wanted to pretend that was okay with us, but that we know it is really Jesus birthday. He accepted that with no problem. As a teenager, at Christmas time, he wanted to hang Santa in effigy. He never did though. Diana | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1228 Registered: 7-2003 |
I determined I wasn't going to lie to my kids. Santa as he is today is an imaginary figure as Bob the Tomato or Spiderman. So, I told my young son that Santa wasn't real, but pretend. He insisted he was ... he had seen him somewhere. Determined not to try to convince him, I just let him think what he wanted, but did not encourage it or support it. When that young son was 6-7 years of age, he came to me one day and asked if Santa was real. I said no. He said Oh, then asked if the tooth fairy was real then the easter bunny. The final kicker made me laugh...he asked if the Holy Spirit was real. We had a very interesting conversation. He had remembered me telling him when he was very small Santa was pretend. And his little mind was able to make sense of it and put Santa in his rightful place. But there is a real story of "St. Nick" from the 4th century, which I think has value to share. Unlike B's tale that Santa is trying to "immitate God", I think Santa is a legendary story run amuck to commercialization. So, I don't get too hung up on the figure of Santa any more than believing that the tomato can talk and the cucumber can play tuba. Now, I did do the tooth fairy bit. But when asked, I told him the truth. He was so convinced saying how one time he had looked and the next time there was a quarter. I explained that when I bent over to hug him goodnight, I had slid my hand under his pillow and exchanged the tooth for a quarter. After that, he just came directly to me for his "tooth change". It was a fun game, and I thought pretty harmless. So, Hannah, your daughter may not understand Santa isn't real just like she probably doesn't understand any other cartoon character she sees isn't real. There was a "live" Crayon at the mall on Saturday, and Jonathan just had to go hug him. But those things will straighten out in time. I'm sure some are appalled at that statement, but Santa is an imaginary object that has no value in and of himself. It's only what people apply to him that creates such conflict. There is no use arguing with a child who can't comprehend dressing up in costumes and she knows what she has seen. Just my opinion...  | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 146 Registered: 10-2005 |
Christmas is a wonderful way for the world to hear about Christ. Christmas music in the grocery store, malls. My toddler stopped in her tracks when we were walking in the store and said "listen, they are playing mommy music." I listen to Christian music on the radio and she hears the words God, Jesus and Lord at home and when we are driving, but it stopped her in her tracks when she heard them in the store. Our children are young. We never taught them to believe in Santa, we teach them to believe in Jesus. My older daughter came home from school and told her younger sister that her friend said that the gifts from santa are really from mommy (the word is out in her school). I told them the reason mommy and daddy can give the gifts is because God gave jobs to mommy and daddy and we can work, but Jesus is the source of their Christmas gifts. They know santa is not bad, he's just funny, we watch cartoons about santa. He is just not real as cartoons aren't real, but Jesus is real. We tell them Jesus is the reason for the season. It is where all our good gifts, the joy and the warmth of the season come from. In our country, for many, the season is a distraction from war, a safe haven, a reason for hope, a time to love family, to love others, to love their neighbors. For some, Christmas is sad and lonely. A rememberance of lost loved ones that were here last year and no longer with them. The reason for the season will embrace and comfort them. Pheeki, I grew up in the 70's when nothing bad happened. What I really mean is that the same things that happened then, happen now, just nobody talked about it. I've heard so many people my age saying what a different world it is now. That just isn't true, they were just under a veil. More predators are on the internet now because they have less physical access to children now because of the terrible things happen that people no longer keep secret. Not all is open now though, such as in the adventist culture and other cults and sects that have something to hide from the rest of the world. Nonetheless, Christmas is a time that we celebrate the birth of Jesus and all the good things that have come from Him and He comforts all and especially those who are alone, old, poor and/or abused. I know my gifts to my children and others are gifts of love. My shopping carts are sometimes full this season. Such a blessing. And yes, if we love to give good gifts to our children, how much more does our heavenly father want to give good gifts to us, and that He has done and he does daily in little and big ways. Let us look at Him and and Exalt Him because He is Glorious. Let us appreciate first, the most important gift He gave us, the shedding of His blood so that we may live. And let us appreciate all the other good gifts that He gives us, all of them. If He is truely the reason for the season, and He is for me, then Christmas is good. Merry Christmas |
