| Author | Message | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2005 |
All I remember from my childhood is Adventism. I was adopted at age two and a half, but have no recollection of it. I was told I was "special" and belonged, but I could never feel it. At age ten I was baptized - seriously believing that I now belonged to a larger, more secure family. The family of God. At age 24 I was married and immediatly fullfilled a lifelong dream of going off to the "mission field". Rwanda. My husband, John, taught math at Gitwe college. Both of our mothers were enormously proud of us. And, I was convinced I was in God's "inner circle" so to speak. But, the experience led to me to start questioning exactly what "working for God" means. This great desire to belong never left me. I continued to feel insecure and unwanted. My husband was very kind to me through all this. He kept assuring me that I was his friend. This didn't ease my sense of not belonging though. I continued to feel something was wrong. By the Fall of 2000, I was in a deep depression. I turned to the Bible for counsel, and spent all my time digging there for answers. By the Spring of 2001, I was free of the depression as well as the other chains that held me. The chains of having my name on a church book; the chains of mentally still being under my adoptive mother's authority; the chains of worrying about what other people thought of me. These all dropped as I accepted God's spirit into my heart. For the first time in my life I felt confident enough to find my birthmom. Through the internet, it didn't take long at all. This happy event coincided with my leaving the church. That didn't go over very well with family members! They thought I was leaving because of her. No. It was because my mind was free now. I wasn't afraid of anyone's control. I wasn't under their control anymore. It was also at this time that I became a submissive wife to my husband. This was a very new concept to me, but it went along with all that I was learning from the Bible. I finally felt that I belonged. My spirit belonging to God; and my flesh belonging to my husband. I had never seperated the two before. I had always viewed spirit and flesh as being simply "flesh". Now my understanding is that they are very different. This is how I see it now. FLESH can be: ____________ I am a woman I am 40 years old I am a college graduate I am a former Adventist I am a wife I am a mother of three children I am five foot six I am sometimes hungry I am sometimes sleepy I am sometimes in pain I am living in the 21st century I am a friend of so and so I am going to eat lunch soon __________________________________________ SPIRIT is simply I AM. ___________________________________________ The flesh is needy. The flesh is about resisting what is. The stomach growls. It has needs. A baby cries for food. It has needs. It doesn't like what IS. It's all about the past and the future (give me food!) not about what is happening right now. God's spirit is illustrated in His very name "I AM". It has nothing after it. No name. No descriptions. Names and descriptions have to do with time - or the past and future. When there's a name or description attached behind the "I am" then there's also obligation or restrictions. I am five foot six means that my height is restricted. The flesh is this way. When a person has the spirit of God in them - the spirit of acceptance - then the flesh does not rule anymore. Rather the spirit rules the flesh. The spirit rules by being itself - by accepting. The spirit doesn't fight the flesh or resent it or wish it away. Rather it simply accepts it. I see myself as "good" now rather than "bad". I used to think all those characteristics after the "I am" were extremely important. I saw them as "me". Or my identity. Now, I simply accept them and realize they are very subject to change, and that they are not the real me. The real me that will last forever is my spirit. That spirit of love or acceptance. It's being content. In my study of Revelation I have come up with some conclusions that make a lot of sense to me. I'll share them here because they go along so much with my story. There are four "7's" in Revelation. The seven churches; the seven seal; the seven trumpets; and the seven plagues. I think these all have to do with how people view themselves. Either with the flesh or with the spirit. Because of Jesus, we see that we belong to God. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ THE SEVEN CHURCHES - these show that no matter WHERE a person is born (and their religion) they belong to God. True believers (spirit) are in all religions all over the world. When I place the religion with the particular religion, I do this for general reasons. For instance, I put Catholic with Europe because it is prominant there - not to say there are not Catholics in other countries as well, for example. ________________________________________________________________________________________ 1. Ephesus - Africa - ancestor worship or even no religion 2. Smyrna - India - Hinduism 3. Pergamos - Middle East - Islam 4. Thyatira - South America - SDA (with Jezebel being Ellen White) 5. Sardis - Europe - Catholic 6. Philadelphia - North America (open and closed door being immigration) - Baptists etc. 7. Laodiceans - Asia - Buddism (etc.) _________________________________________________________________________________________ THE SEVEN SEALS - these show that no matter WHAT a person does for a living that they can still be working for God (equally) when they have His spirit. 1. White horse - Medicine - health professions 2. Red horse - Government - military 3. Black horse - Business - industry 4. Pale horse - Agriculture 5. souls under alter - Clergy - priests; counselors 6. earthquake etc. - Education (land = past (knowledge); sea = future (unknown) Mts.= special dates etc. "mts. fall on us" - overwhelmed with information (knowledge) 7. silence in heaven - Entertainment _________________________________________________________________________________________ THE SEVEN TRUMPETS - these show that the fleshly roles of male and female are valid and good. To resist who you are sexually (male; female) is to identify with the flesh (resistence). ___________________________________________________________________________________________ 1. hail and fire and blood to earth - 1/3 of trees burned up - first 2000 years before the flood; the trees representing people or generations that died in the flood. 2. great mt. burning and cast into the sea - 1/3 creatures died; 1/3 ships destroyed - great Mt is the Sabbath and it was cast into sea (future from the cross) in that churches still kept it and kept the law rather than following the spirit. They were identifying with the flesh (law) rather than Jesus (spirit). The 1/3 represents the 2000 or so years after the cross when the Christian chuch was formed. 3. Great Star Wormwood - this one represents the bitterness of women. The fountains of water are the beginning of life. 1/3 here could represent again the third of earth's history (the last 2000 years) or it could mean the third of people - meaning women. The other two thirds being men and children. 4. 1/3 of the sun, moon, and stars darkened - the sun = father; the moon = mother; the stars= children. Being darkened would mean that they have no knowledge of their roles towards one another. This is due to feminism or women not submitting. The children follow her example - either by submitting to authority or not. 5. Star Apollyon fell to the earth - this represents men who are under the influence of feminism. The bottomless pit is the lack of security they provide for their wives and children. And, the locusts destroying their goods is financial and mental anquish - even for the elderly aren't taken care of (because of feminism again). The five months could be the 150 years of feminism (worldwide). 6. hour, day, month - slay 1/3 of men - this is the 2000 years of the Isrealite nation. The hour being the evening sacrifice; the day being the sabbath; the month being the new moon; and the year being the Passover. 7. Mystery of God finished - New earth where all will know God and He will be the only authority (no more marriage, for instance). ____________________________________________________________________________________________ THE SEVEN PLAGUES - these show the misery of those who identify with the flesh ("I am a doctor") rather than the spirit (I am.) It gives the reason why a person exists - for God! __________________________________________________________________________________________ 1. Earth - sore - clinging to the past (earth) - this can be such things as pride of knowing so much (being really smart); traditions or special days (upset if they are ever broken or not observed); or the pain of hanging onto past sins - either your own or others. 2. Sea - blood of dead man - resisting the future (sea) - fear of the unknown and death. Don't believe in their resurrection and eternal life. 3. Rivers and f. of waters - blood - Rivers (lifespan); f. waters are birth and childhood. Become blood is being controlled by the flesh rather than the spirit. That even children are taught to do this. 4. Sun - sorch men with fire - Sun = authority of men. Scorch with fire - women who hate it, but it's there anyway (they get pregnant - despite women trying to take away men's power with their own birth control). 5. Seat of the Beast - darkness; gnawed tongues for pain - the Beast is each person who isn't a believer. The seat is their mind. The darkness is their lack of knowing God (not facts about God - such as knowing your Bible - but rather knowing God's spirit in them - love). Gnaw their tongues cause they actually want pain and resistance for they see themselves as bad. 6. Euphrates - waters dried up = realize that life has an end and they will die 3 unclean spirits = want to know "who am I?" Dragon = family (trumpets); Beast = Career (seals); False Prophet = religion (7 churches). These all have to do with the flesh. It still isn't their real identity. Armageddon - spiritual battle within each person's mind - to resist or accept God and their true identity. 7. Air - it is finished. Air = Now Spirit rules "I am" _____________________________________________________________________________________________ I find the Bible so very fun to study - but I do not see it as being important to know. The only thing important to know is God's spirit in the heart. That love. And, little babies have that. It doesn't take fleshly knowledge (such as I have been giving). It takes heart knowledge. All these Bible facts are good in that they point us to the truth. But, many people have the truth already without ever even reading the Bible or knowing anything about it. So, in other words, I have discovered huge freedom and joy in reading the Bible now that I no longer feel my identity is bound up in what I know from it. And, that's why people who are of the Truth (love) can talk about the Bible without getting upset or defensive. Their identities are with God - not with the Bible. The Bible is not God - it just talks about God. So, the important thing is having the Truth (which is not facts - but the Spirit). in His love, Debbie | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 602 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hi Debbie, I am in a rush to get to school field trips and Christmas lunches so I do not have time to read completely through all your thoughts. You have done a great deal of study and in all my Bible study the one book I have not ventured into is Revelations. Most likely this has to do with all the SDA push I was raised with. I have no desire to even begin but I know that God will lead my there when He knows the time is right. I am so incredibly into my Bible. I love studying and I find more and more the reason it is called THE LIVING BIBLE. I have to disagree with you when you say "I do not see it as being important to know." One of my favorite passages is Eph. 6:10-18: To be strong in the Lord is to be strong ONLY through His power! I completely agree that it does not take a fleshly knowledge but that it is through a heart knowledge. But in order to have that heart knowledge I need to take the full armor of God. Once the armor is on it never comes off but the question would then be: Am I using it fully? Puttin on the full armor of God is not something I do. Paul tells us the armor is not for us to use to fight but that in God's armor we are to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. Here are a few of the pieces that we have to stand firm: BELT OF TRUTH - The truth of who God is. BREAST PLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS - Living by the power of CHrist's imparted righteousness. SHOES FOR READINESS - A state of alertness - a spirit eager to share Jesus SHIELD OF FAITH - Protects the heart against the arrows of doubt, insecurity, failure HELMET OF SAVATION - confidence of God's love and presence All of these are offensive weapons that we have at our disposal in the daily fights we all find ourselves in against the schemes of the devil - sorrow, addictions, depression, anger, impatience... God desires for us to be alert and powerful in His Spirit and this is done through His Word (knowing the Scriptures) and "with all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit." It is growing day by day in Jesus that I can even begin to have the heart knowledge I truly desire. But in order to have that strong heart knowledge I must be in God's Word daily in order to have that day by day experience. Otherwise all it is is fleshly knowledge. It sounds like I am talking in circles. I completely agree with you that there is a wonderful freedom and joy in reading the Bible without feeling our identity is bound up in what we know. The important thing is having the Truth which is the truth of God's Word. GIVE ME JESUS! Denise | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 34 Registered: 11-2005 |
Amen Denise! It's awesome that we can "connect" and understand each other! I loved what you said! I should have used the word "vital" instead of important to refer to the Bible. Yes, it is important. But, (as I'm sure you know) it's not the one vital thing we must have. That one thing that Jesus told Martha that her sister Mary had. I love the analogy of the armor of God. It's great! All these various ways to undertand Him better. Debbie | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 713 Registered: 1-2003 |
I too found my birthmother and 7-years later left the church...not because of her, but she was blamed. They will try to attribute it to anything but the truth! | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2005 |
Thanks for the encouragment, Pheeki! It's wonderful that you found your birthmom, too! Debbie | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1101 Registered: 3-2005 |
Debbie2, would you please clarify something for me? Quote "THE SEVEN CHURCHES-these show that no matter WHERE a person is born (and their religion), they belong to God. True believers (spirit) are in all religions of the world." Then you go into detail designating the church at Ephesus as symbolizing No religion, or even ancestor worship--huh? Where do you get that from Jesus' plain language that this represents a faithful Christian church. Next, Smyrna are Hindus, Pergamos is Islam, and Laodicea is Buddhism. So, are you saying all religions are equally valid to Christianity? This is what the New Age movement teaches, but this is not Biblical Christianity. Jesus said "I AM the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the father except by me" (John 14) Those words were written by the same Apostle John who wrote the book of Revelation. I don't mean to be disrespectful or mean, Debbie2, and I will have to admit you put a lot of time and effort into your study of Revelation, and I was interested in reading it. But, truthfully, I would have to urge you to now go back and do a very careful study of the Gospel of John, especially starting in John 1, and examine again for yourself who the real Jesus of the Bible is. You will find in that first chapter that Jesus is indeed God of very God, as well as fully man. You will find that Jesus has always existed co-eternally with the Father, and the Holy Spirit, and you will find that Jesus was even the actual creator of the universe. Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3074 Registered: 12-2003  |
Debbie, The problem with knowing about the Bible without really KNOWING it is that without the Bible, we cannot KNOW God. The Bible is His word to us, and it is the way He reveals His history with humanity, His overarching, eternal plan to save us and to make all things new. The Bible is how we get to know Jesus who was the exact representation of the Father. One other piece of the armor of God from Ephesians 6 is the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God. Hebrews 4:16 says the word of God is "living" and "active" and can cut even between the spirit and the soul, joints and sinews. It reveals the truth about our own hearts to us. Revelation 1:16 describes Jesus, the horseman, with a double-edged sword coming out of His mouth. The word of God is alive because the author, the Holy Spirit, interprets it to us when we surrender to knowing what the Bible is teaching. Without the Bible, we cannot grow and deepen in Jesus or the Father or the Spirit. While the Spirit can reveal Jesus to us, can awaken our hearts to know Him, still our knowlege of His will, His love, and reality itself is not accessible to us if we do not pursue knowing Him through His revelation of Himselfóthe Scriptures. We do not get to know Jesus by individual revelations of the Spirit apart from the Bible. The Bible is the vehicle God chose to give mankind as the revelation of Himself. If we pursue knowing God through personal revelation by the Spirit, we will be completely vulnerable to deception because we have no external measuring rod by which to evaluate our own impressions. If we read the Bible as a fun exercise, comparing phrases and coinjecturing possible metaphorical meanings as we might a piece of literature, we will miss its truth altogether. Knowing Jesus and understanding reality and truth as it is taught in the Bible are completely interwtined. We cannot figure out the Bible without surrendering to the Holy Spirit and asking Him to teach us Himself, to make us willing to know the truth, to be willing to be taught by its words and by its Author. As the Bible begins to make sense, Jesus Himself becomes more and more astonishing. The Trinity becomes increasingly obvious in the words of Scripture; the eternal purposes of God become clear. Jesus said the time was now here when men should worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4:23). Our spirits, awakend by the Holy Spirit and brought to life, worship Him in deep ways hard even to put into words. Worshiping in truth, however, means KNOWING FACTS and INFORMATION that is true. Truth requires intellectual knowledge and understanding. One cannot worship in truth unless one is committed to the truth found in the word of God. Jesus defended Himself against Satan in the wilderness not by a spiritual "experience" of "knowing" the Spirit and feeling secure. He didn't defeat Satan by just living and feeling love. He defeated Himself against Satan by using the double-edged sword of the Spiritóthe Word of God. Deception and falsehood cannot stand in the light of objective truth found in the Bible. And we cannot know if our "spiritual experiences" are genuinely from God unless we immerse ourselves in Scripture and surrender ourselves to learning and knowing the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as they are revealed there. The Bible is not just a book about God. It is GOD'S WORDS to us. It is His perpetual revelation of truth that survives the generations. The Bible is our source of truth by which we worship God in spirit and in truth. Colleen | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2005 |
Colleen, my ideas may be new to you, but that doesn't make them incorrect or unBiblical. Simply because I am one individual doesn't make them any less valid. I thought I was the only one who understood the idea of the sabbath and the covenants and Jesus being the new covenant. But, then I came across Mr. Ratzlaf's book "Sabbath in Christ" and discovered I wasn't alone after all. For about three and a half years I thought I was. But, that didn't diminish my certainty of the correctness of what I knew. And, finding out that many others thought the same way certainly didn't increase my faith in my ideas. It didn't validate them for me either. I simply found it nice. It was like watching a beautiful sunset with someone else now. The sunset was still just as beautiful when I was alone. I'll write more later as I have time. Debbie | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2005 |
I do not subscribe to any church or religion. I am not a "New Ager". I simply believe in Jesus and cling to His spirit. But, I don't place a name on this belief because my spirit belongs to God - not a group of people that happen to believe the same. So a name is not necessary. That's what I meant when I said "no religion". I would be in that category. That doesn't mean I'm a ancestor worshipper just cause I put that in the same place. Now to explain why I think that Jesus has churches all over the world - even though they have no knowledge or belief in Him. It has to do with the individual person. Not the group. Imagine if you were born in the Middle East to devote Muslim parents who lived in a completely Muslim village. The chances that you will be Muslim all your life are very high. It has much to do with where you are born and to whom. The church of Jesus is all about His holy spirit - LOVE. When we meet a new person we ask about them. "Where are you from?" "What do you do for a living?" etc.. We know who they are from all these FACTS. This all has to do with this world and the flesh. That's fine. But, it is different when one wants to know if a person belongs to God or not. If they are a believer. Jesus gave the answer in John 13:34,35. "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another: as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By THIS shall all men KNOW that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." Here He tells His disciples how people will know them as His followers - that they belong to Him. Love. And, only love. Although, the concept of love is now very twisted and wrong - for instance, saying that women are more "loving" is one way true love is twisted. It has nothing to do with feelings or emotions - but rather is a mental attitude and decision. Notice that Jesus did not give a bunch of doctrinal beliefs that would distinquish His true believers. They may have all that knowledge and facts about Him - but that isn't how people will know them as His. Here's another text that illustrates the fact that the TRUTH has nothing to do with words. This is something that so many people get wrong. They think "spirit and truth" means that the spirit is some mystical feeling and the truth is facts. No. The spirit and the truth are one and the same. Here's some texts to show this. 1 Corinthians 4:20 "For the kingdom of God is NOT IN WORD, but in power." 1 John 5:6 "...the Spirit IS truth". Yes, the Bible is true and factual, but it is not the Spirit of God. It simply points to Him. People long to think of God in fleshy terms. They long to box Him in and get all the facts neatly lined up into doctrines and then an established church so they can "save" others. Simply because other people don't have the same doctrines does not make them not a member of God's true Church. God's true church is made up of individuals all over the world who all have one thing in common - LOVE. They obey God's spirit. They may not have the head knowledge. That doesn't change the fact that they are part of God's church due to their obedience to God's spirit. How do you know they have God's spirit? Is it because they SAY they do? NO!!! It's by their fruits. "Ye shall know them by their fruits." Matt. 7:16 You know a person by their name. People know that our son belongs to our family because he has the same last name. This is flesh! Not spirit. With the spirit, the fruit is not in doctrines or beliefs or names. It's in the SPIRIT! People often have no clue what spirit even means. It means the attitude or mindset. The decision to be content. To be thankful in all situations. "In every thing give thanks: for THIS is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." 1 Thess. 5:18 "But the fruit of the Spririt is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperence: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22.23 Even little children with no knowledge of the Bible or doctrines can have the truth when they obey the Spirit of God by being thankful. Most little children are. They are very accepting of their situations and always manage to glean the most joy out of anything (even in a disaster you'll see kids smiling and having a good time). Does this mean they are idiots? No. It means they are simply accepting what they can't change - and are making the best of it. This is love. This is God's spirit in a person. Many times people think of love as being fleshly - as in "I love you more than anything in the world!". That's possessive love. It's not the love that is eternal and is about having God's spirit. I don't love my kids or husband more than I love anyone else. I will use the word "lust" rather than love to distinquish the two. I lust after my husband. But, that's not love. I love him completely 100% - but I love everybody 100%! That means I accept them completely without trying to change them at all. Now, when people confuse this word love and think of it in the possessive kind of way (like lust) they will think they acting in a "loving" way by telling you that you are wrong and need to change. They think this is love. NO. It's just the opposite. "Friends" and members of families do this all the time thinking they are following God's will. But, as we saw in 1 Thess. 5:18, this is not at all God's will. The concept of love is very much misunderstood - and makes it so that God is also very misunderstood. Debbie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3076 Registered: 12-2003 |
Debbie, God defines "love"; love does not define God. Every one of the components of the fruit of the Spirit can be counterfeited. That is exactly why deception abounds. Love, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control--everything can be counterfeited for a time. I believe that externally, few nominal Christians would appear to be as patient and gentle as a devout Buddhist. Yet the external signs of patience and gentleness in a Buddhist cannot be attributed to the Holy Spirit if that person is working on subduing his desires and emotions and atempting to transcend his flesh and live above pain, sadness, passion, anger, etc. Jesus told Nicodemus that unless a person is born of water and the Spirit he cannot see the kingdom of God. That means that even a sincere Buddhist who is living in quiet, peaceful, gentle obscurity will have to submit himself to the true God in order to experience His Spirit. A person's spirit is not simply his attitude or mindset. His spirit is that part of him that responds to spiritual things. It is the part of us that is born dead in transgressions (Eph. 2:4) and separated from God. It is the part of us that "inherits" original sin. Our spirits are the part of us that the Holy Spirit brings to life so we can know Jesus. The human spirit is also the part of a person that can respond to evil and become sold out to Satan. Sincere people in non-Christian religions must still submit to the One True God. Even though they may not actually hear the name of Jesus and haven't been evangelized, still God brings to each person a point when he must choose to surrender himself to truth and to integrity or to retain his right to pursue his own power and desires. God knows each human's heart, and He brings each person to a moment of truth. We cannot observe from a distance and proclaim that all people who appear to be "loving" belong to God. Only He knows our hearts. But this is the problem with deciding that "love" is the marker of God. Only true Godly love is the marker of the presence of God. God defines love; love does not define God. None of us can love all people 100% That is simply not possible for a human. If we have surrendered to jesus and have been indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14), then we have the power of God to begin to equip us to respond to people with love--to love them for God. Jesus' new commandment that we love one another as he has loved us was a command that is not possible for anyone to do UNLESS he is filled with the Holy Spirit. That is divine love, the willingness to love sacrificially for all humans. This kind of love is not a decision we make; it is the result of choosing to surrender to One who alone can love this way. When we surrender to Jesuis and allow His love to wash us clean and His Spirit to bring us to new life, then His love begins to shape our reactions and decisions. True love comes not from a decision to love. It comes from beingn born again--and even people who do not live in Christian areas must at some point surrender themselves to pursuing truth and the true God in order to experience His love in them. God is able to reveal Himself to each individual in ways He knows they will recognize Him. We don't need to worry that people don't have the "opportunity" to hear about him; He is all-sufficient. In fact, no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him. The triune God pursues each individual, and each individual experiences at least one point in life when they must choose to surrender their own works and perfection and accept the revelation of the True God--or stay mired in their spiritual blindness. The Bible is the revealed word of God, and it is the objective source of our knowledge of truth. We who have the Bible cannot assume that God will bypass His revelation in it and give us direct information that may not align itself with the Bible. What we believe must be grounded in Scripture, or we are simply creating our own religion. Scripture interprets itself; it uses consistent and repetitive symbols and promises and prophecies. It' entire purpose is to reveal God's love and his eternal purpose expressed to us in Christ Jesus our Lord (Ephesians 3:11). The work of both Scripture and the Holy Spirirt is to reveal Christ and to make His true identity and eternity and atonement real to us. Love is a product of knowing Jesus and being adopted as God's child (Romans 8:12-16). He gives us a spirit not of fear but of sonship. Love that we "decide" to practice is not the love of God. And the love of God is grounded firmly in our surrender to the God of Truth and in our willingness to give up our own perceptions in favor of Him. Truth will not be in a vacuum. Truth is validated in Scripture, and others who study Scripture will find the same truth. That is why you independently discovered the new covenant and then discovered Dale Ratzlaff had also discovered it. Real truth is not individual. Others will also find it in Scripture. If we think we have found truth, however, and others who are surrendered to Jesus and searchingn the Scriptures are not finding that same truth confirmed clearly there, we have to be tentative about our conclusions. It's kind of like science: if a study is not repeatable by other scientists in other labs, the results of a study are considered unreliable. Just so, the Holy Spirit will confirm the same truth about God to all who surrender themselves to Him and to being taught by Him through the word of God. Colleen | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2005 |
My purpose for posting at all was simply for the sake of friendship with other women. That is possible when we are all on a equal level with no one instructing the other. But, rather presenting information in hopes that it will be of interest and pleasure for the other friends. If I have come across in any way as being bossy or "above" or better than you ladies, please forgive me. My goal is not confrontation or contention, or even instruction - but simply friendly conversation. I have no desire to "win" anyone over to my ideas. I don't view anyone here as less than myself or in need of anything that I can say. Colleen, I would love to be your friend (as I would with any woman) but I do sense some resistance to this. Am I wrong? I do hope so. I have had these views about Revelation for about a year now and have told only one lady. I offered to tell my sister and niece, but they were not at all interested. That was cool. It would be like me offering to play Scrabble with them and them saying "no thanks". Great! I presented this here on this board because I thought that there would be those who might be open to it. I probably thought this due to the fact that this site was linked from Mr. Ratzlaff's site, so I figured that the interests would run along the same lines. We can agree to disagree and still be friends.  Would you like that, Colleen? Would you like to continue this discussion with me, or have you said and heard all you wish to? If it seems like work or a Christian duty to you, then I'm not interested. But, if you find enjoyment in it, then I would be willing. Debbie | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2005 |
Perhaps I should explain. Specifically, Colleen, when you said that it's impossible for anyone to love everyone 100%, you were in effet calling me a liar. You were in effect saying that you knew me better than I knew myself. How can this be? Now, I am not saying that you shouldn't have said that. I have no power to tell you what you should or should do or say. Yet, I do not find it friendly. So, my purpose in the previous post of asking if you want to be friends comes from this. Debbie | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2005 |
My aunt and uncle are Buddhists. They attend meetings every week, say their "prayers"/chants, and study their Buddhist Bible religiously. They live a very good, peaceful life. They exhibit love, and treat others according to the golden rule. Often times, we have gotten in gentle religious discussions with them. They often compare Christianity with Buddhism. They will say comments like, "You have your Jesus, we have our Buddha gods. It's basically the same. When it comes down to it, you live your life the best according to love and respect for others and you will have peace." Well, that's part of it. But a major difference between Christianity and other religions is that Christianity is the only religion that believes in a personal relationship with your God. And as a result of the relationship, power and strength to do good comes from the bond between man and God rather than just man. Buddhism relies on your own efforts. Now, Buddhists are some of the nicest people I think around (they have to be because their life now depends on their future life based off of their belief in reincarnation). But I believe they are missing a HUGE part of what God intends for us -- HIM!! Jesus is the only Way to life, the Bible is clear on that. There are a lot of nice people out there who live their life according to love. But without Christ it means nothing. I have some atheist friends who are generous, and filled with "Christian love". But it's not enough. Being a follower of Christ is not just about love, it's about sacrifice of ourselves. Anyway, I've studied a lot about Buddhism. My relatives are right, there are quite a few similiarities. But at the same time, there are very important differences. Differences that I believe could have eternal consequences. It may seem harsh, but if I trust the Bible as truth, I have to trust that Jesus is the ONLY Way, Truth, and Life. Just my quick two cents during my lunch break. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3080 Registered: 12-2003 |
Snowmom--you've summed it up exactly. A personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ is what sets Christianity apart from all other religions. That is why Christians are ultimately defined not by their love but by the One they know. Their love is often a point of recognition--Christians really do treat others with love--but the behavior is not the identifying "mark". Knowing Jesus is, and that "knowing" is marked by, as you said, self-sacrifice. Debbie, my comments above were not meant to be unfriendly. I'm not meaning to "take you on"óI probably wouldn't respond overly much to them if it weren't for the fact that this board is read by many people around the world; we don't really know how many. Often they are in really vulnerable spiritual and emotional states, and they are looking for reality and truth and support and something consistent they can count on. When I notice that there are posts here that really do not square with Biblical interpretation, I have to say something about it in order to prevent confusion or misunderstanding for those who also read the forum--many of whom never post. If unbiblical observations stand without some explanation of what the Bible says, they could cause distress and confusion and certainly misunderstanding of the purpose and foundation of this forum. I'm not suggesting you must "change your mind"; many people post here who do not agree with each other. Hopefully, though, we will all be open to consider the Bible with new appreciation and understanding as we interact together and grow in Jesus. I've learned so much from the people here! Colleen | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2005 |
I understand completely. Thank you, Colleen. in His love, Debbie |
