| Author | Message | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 103 Registered: 6-2005 |
Dd, "True faith risks everything on God's faithfulness." Well one thing that amazes me still, is the fact that I do KNOW that God is Faithful. As Dennis stated "we persevere because God preserves us." What a play on words, we per- Severe, because God pre-Serves us! Insearchof: I definelty wrestle with God about a lot of things, and get frustrated and angry and impatient. I want to "get it right"...that old ugly perfectionistic tendency I guess. Even so, I no longer feel condemned and judged when I have or express those feelings. I know God will bring me out to the otherside of understanding at some point. I can't even begin to understand what is happening in my own heart. It seems presumptious indeed to expect to understand the heart or mind of God Almighty. Esther, what lovely words to describe your experience! Hugs and prayes all, you are a blessing to me! JavaGirl | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 151 Registered: 4-2005 |
Dear Belva, I empathize with the thoughts you express over your unsettling feelings over the rather shocking "newness" of a Scriptural teaching that has been in the Word of God all along. For years I stepped over texts like the few I will list, as if they were but leaves on the ground. I could not see, because like so many, "the window of my perception" was clouded by layers and layers of unbiblical teachings. God has to gently remove these layers, one by one, so that we can have clear vision. I read Eph 1:5-9; 11, 13,14 and Rom 8:28-39,Jn 10:25-30 and numerous others and simply did NOT SEE! Predestination, foreordained, election, irresistable grace, etc. are not familiar words to the majority of Adventists or former SDAs. But as Colleen pointed out, this entire teaching hangs totally upon the great truth of the Sovereignty of God. Coming to understand THAT has radically transformed my walk with God and has led me much closer to worshiping "in spirit and in truth." God for me now, is so much more GOD than he ever was before! Just a few thoughts which I hope will calm your spirits a bit as I hope you will follow the balanced counsel and good, prayerful wishes of those who have posted below your comment. Relax. Know that the Spirit of Christ will NEVER lead you into false beliefs. Please understand that the various branches of the Presbyterian and Reformed Churches in Europe and America are thoughouly Calvinistic. Also keep in mind that Martin Luther wrote much more about Predestination than John Calvin ever did. The Baptist and Congregational Churches, although they have no formulated creeds, have in the main been Calvinistic if we may judge from the writings and teachings of their representative theologians. The great free church of Holland and almost all the churches of Scotland are Calvinistic. The Established Church of England and her daughter, the Episcopal Church in America, have a Calvinistic creed in the Thirty-nine Articles. The Whitefield Methodists in Wales to this day bear the name of "Calvinistic Methodists." The great theologians of history, Augustine, Whycliffe, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Zanchius, Owen, Whitefield, Toplady and in more modern times, the great Princeton University theologian, A.A. Hodge, Dabney, Cunningham, Smith, Shedd, Warfield, Kuyper and the Baptist Calvinist, Charles H. Spurgeon all held this doctrine and taught it with force. Belva, I would advise you to keep Deut. 29:29 on a 3 x 5 card - written in large letters and propped up before you as you do any study on this great theme. We can no more explain how the creation of this world actually worked, how the Incarnation of Christ took place in all it's sacred details; or can we explain the mystery of the Trinity; yet we believe them all as the truth of God and His Word. There are questions concerning the Sovereignty of God and His plan of election we cannot begin to understand. We are told that no one can know the mind of God. His ways are past finding out by puny human beings; nor do we need to know. I would like to underscore Dr. Stan's recommendation of Michael Horton's book, "Putting Amazing Back into Grace", when you are ready to do some outside reading, other than searching the Scriptures. Often a little guidance by a qualified teacher can help wipe away some of the cobwebs we spin ourselves. On page 89 of Horton's book is some wonderfully comforting, assurrance which I think will give you some relaxed confidence as you pursue this wonderful study: "Not only are we told, 'make your calling and election sure' (2 Pet 1:10), we are also told now to do it. In 1 Thes 1:4 Paul wrote, 'For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you.' then he tells us why he knew they were 'chosen': "because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction.... You became imitators of us and of the Lord.' Christ said, 'My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me' (Jn 10:27). And Rom 8:30 reads: 'And those he redestined, he also called....' Have you been called (Belva)? Have you heard Christ's voice and joined his fold? Has the gospel come to you, not only in word but in power, in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance? Did you become a disciple of the apostles and of the Lord? In other words, do you trust Christ alone for your salvation? Then you ARE ONE OF THE ELECT. He has given you faith to trust his Son in whom you were chosen before the creation of the world." (Emphasis supplied) Belva, if you do believe, remember that it was God who worked in you both to believe and to do according to His good pleasure (Phil 2:12,13). If you do press on to lay hold on the goal of life, remember that Christ laid hold on you that you might lay hold on it. (Phil 3:12). In the face of all logic, the Calvinist says that if man does anything good, God gets all the glory; and if man does anything bad, man gets all the blame. Man can't win. ALL glory MUST go to our Sovereign God! Dive deep into the WORD. You will be richly rewarded, and you will glorify God as never before as you discover that He loves you and loved you MORE than you have ever imagined before! You are FAR MORE precious to Him than you ever dreamed of being. He is FAR MORE marvelous, wonderful and magnificent in His mysteriousness, than we can ever imagine! Soli Deo Gloria Jess | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1044 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jess, Thanks again for sending that tape to me of your great pastor Randy Martin. Marti and I listened to it on our way up to Lake Tahoe, where we are now vacationing (it has stopped snowing) and were blessed greatly by his sermon on Romans 8:28-31. I am becoming more impressed by PCA pastors like him who still teach the Bible verse by verse, and who have such a great appreciation for the doctrines of grace and God's sovereignty thru all circumstances. You are absolutely right about our Adventist scales over our eyes, when it comes to the great foundational teachings of scripture. Thanks for your inspiring post above. Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2991 Registered: 12-2003  |
Isn't it such a RELIEF to serve a Sovereign God? As you said, Jess--seeing God's absolute sovereignty and the fact that my inheritance is to glorify Him has changed my experience and understanding of worship. Colleen | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 396 Registered: 7-2000 |
Stan! You're in Tahoe? I'm just down the hill in Carson! How long are you going to be around for and do you need a recommend on a church to worship with? | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2005 |
This is my first post here! Hi everyone! Before I answer the topic question, I'd like to ask how you access other people's profiles to read them? I began a real deep love of the Bible after reading Gwen Shamblin's book "Rise Above". My issue was always about eating. "It's a sin to eat this; it pleases God if we eat that...." type of thing. But, this book gave the texts and explanations about how eating certain foods is neither right or wrong, but it's rather the spirit or attitude of the person that is right or wrong. A thankful attitude "cleanses" all food. Well, this book got me to studying Paul's writings real deeply on my own. I'm glad to be here, Debbie | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 266 Registered: 5-2004 |
Debbie, Welcome to the group! I am so glad you found us and would love to hear more of your story when you get a chance. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 705 Registered: 1-2003 |
WDWS also planted seeds for me too, Debbie. I was reading verses that the SDA had never exposed me to. I didn't even know they were in the bible, and it got me thinking. | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 106 Registered: 10-2005 |
Debbie - I'm not sure about accessing peoples profiles, but you can click "Search" in the upper left corner and type in the username to see their previous postings. There is also a "Stories" section on the home page of the Former Adventist home page that you can click on to read other peoples stories. Lynne  | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2993 Registered: 12-2003 |
Debbie, Welcome! We're glad you're here, and we look forward to hearing more of your story. Colleen | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2005 |
Hi Esther, Pheeki, Lynne and Colleen! Thanks for the warm welcome! That's neat, Pheeki, about you discovering the same things through WDW as I did! I appreciate the tip, Lynne. I have been reading through the various stories and have been amazed at what God has done! I just finished e-mailing off my own story. Do any of you live near the Twin Cities? Or does this group ever have get-togethers? I would love that! If it's in S. Cal or Oregon (I know many Adventists live there!) we have relatives we visit there in the summers and could go then. It's good reading all that everyone has written. It seems like a warm and friendly group here! Debbie | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1201 Registered: 7-2003  |
Debbie, there's a retreat in February in California. I think the announcement is on the main home page of this site. I'm in Kansas myself. (well, at this very moment, I'm in Missouri, but in a couple of hours (when I get off work), I'll go "home" to Kansas. ) The joys of living by state lines.... | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 153 Registered: 4-2005 |
Welcome, Debbie, I look forward to getting to know you from the things you post (windows into where you have been, where you are, where you are headed in your growth) and visiting together, with you, at the feet of His Majesty whom we all serve in freedom, like laughing children, jumping up and down in and on His Grace! :c) Jess | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1048 Registered: 3-2005 |
Loneviking, That is correct. We are staying at the Ridge Sierra at the top of Kingsbury grade, which isn't very far from Carson. Wow, I wish I knew about this sooner. I even have my new Bach trumpet that I am practicing, and we could exchange trumpet stories. Unfortunately we are leaving Friday and have activities planned until we leave, but just in case, you are free to leave a message for me by calling the Ridge Sierra and asking for room 131 and see if any meeting is possible, although right now it is doubtful, but we come here every year, so will put it on my calendar for next year, if it doesn't work out otherwise. Stan | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 158 Registered: 4-2005 |
Stan, Don't forget your visit to Covenant Pres. Church....someday :c))) Jess | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2058 Registered: 3-2004  |
Debbie, Welcome to FAF. As you see, we get along quite well, even when we agree to diagree. I look forward to reading you story. When one leaves Adventism and joins Christianity, it is amazing how our family grows. I thank God for all my extended family. I can come here and ask for prayers for all kinds of things, from cats to my sisters and son. I also get to pray for others animals and family. God has given us a large family. He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 51 Registered: 7-2005 |
What started me to really study the valability of sda belief system was a request of one of my friends, who asked me what can be said in answer to a problem. He said that adventism is infected with a virus, a movement who said that adventism is not a biblical church because it started going against the plain teaches of the Bible, who said that nobody know the day and the hour of Jesus coming. This situation prompted me to search an answer, even if I consider the situation unanswerable. But only when my reasearch lead me in more and more discoveries about the lies of adventism, also in the gospel truth, I was convinced that adventism preaches a false gospel. | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2005 |
Thanks for the welcome Melissa and Jess and Diana! I mentioned the February meeting in Redlands to my husband, and so we'll see if we can go or not. He's reading Dale Ratzlaf's book "Sabbath in Christ" now and has been making all kinds of notes in the margins. Debbie | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 109 Registered: 10-2005 |
Jackob, The funny thing is, when I started going to the adventist church, I heard people speaking of the soon coming of Christ and even making up dates! I saw this in the bible as not biblical, but figured some people exaggerated the teachings of the church and just looked at the church name or something. I didn't see things in the bible that I heard in church. I didn't think it was in the Adventist doctrine. I didn't reach that level in the brainwashing process yet. However, many times over the years I told myself, it wasn't the adventist church or the doctrine, it was the people. I somehow knew that every question I would ask a pastor would come back with a "true" biblical answer. I trusted and believed the teachings as any good child would believe a parent (though I was an adult). I think that is just a part of the brainwashing. Year after year, I found excuses to see the church as something good. In the light that they make it out to us to be. It isn't the church or the doctrine, it is this person or that person or that family or that church. It isn't adventism, the church is good. Ellen White said that there isn't peace in the SDA church because it stirs the beast. I heard that all the time and didn't know it came from her. But now looking back. Wow, as I've heard here in this forum, adventism is such a subtle and deep brainwashing process. That is why the SDA church calls salvation a process, everything in the church is a process. The adventist truth is a long, drawn out process. In fact, they process people, adventists are artificially processed. Like scripture, we are chopped up and mixed up and then neatly put back into a nice looking package. On the outside, both the bible and the people in the church are made to look good, but when you look at the ingredients, you know it isn't pure and some of the words many people cannot pronounce, let alone know how it is derived! Pure people, pure scripture - NOT! Lynne | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3006 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lynne, what a great metaphor for Adventism! Chopped ingredients packaged to look pure. It's so descriptive! Colleen |
