| Author | Message | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 774 Registered: 7-2004 |
I was reading the Town Hall thread on R/S and came upon a discussion of a book by Alden Thompsen named "Escape The Flames," or something on that order. After accusing the author of liberalism they devolved into discussing EGW and unfolding truth or prophecy. Eventually Guibox mentioned a friend of his who recently announced that he had studied his way out of Adventism. The following is a statement that he made about his belief of how his friend had "lost his way." ---------- "As far as the Sabbath goes, the philosophy of the Pauline worshippers and their insistance and practice on skewing verses like Colossians 2:16 and Hebrews 4:1-4 to convince people the Sabbath isn't valid is where the damage and doubt occurs. A few people I've known who've abandoned the Sabbath do so strictly on what they feel is biblical principle (be it false as it may be) and not on whether someone chooses to drink coffee or not. "I just found out a friend and fellow church member of mine who had been an Adventist his whole life just asked to have his name removed from the church books and has left the church. His reasons? "He claimed through intense and long bible study, he didn't believe in certain doctrines anymore. One of them was the Sabbath. His reasons were nothing more than the nonsense arguments that guys like Ratzlaff have brought up. My friend even brought up the Colossians 'anti-sabbath' argument that has been undeniably trashed and disputed by scholars like Bacchiocchi. "I am very saddened by it all... "I wouldn't have called him a denier of standards or liberal in anyway. It was his misguided search through scriptures and not his views on standards that he came to the conclusions that he did." ---------- This statement is about the willingness to turn a blind eye when truth is pointed out. If an admired Adventist scholar doesn't support verifiable Bible truth, then the scriptures have to be ignored. When were you willing to set aside everything you had learned up until that moment and simply allow the scriptures to teach you? Were you, in fact, in rebellion against a particular stand of the church, say about dancing, jewelry, movies...? When I studied my way out I had an SDA neighbor who told me that I really hadn't found truth in the Bible, I had simply found a way to justify wearing jewelry and make-up. I offered her copies of the books by Dale Ratzlaff (she had known him personally) and she said she tried to read them but felt that the devil was influencing people through their pages so she threw them away. By that time she and her husband had moved to Idaho and were working for Pacific Press. I knew I had to let go and leave them in God's hands. It has been several years since I've heard from them now because of my "evil" influence or the influence my kids would have had on their younger boys. Anyway, was it a deep-seated hunger for truth (that's my take) or were you trying to find a way to cut Adventist corners? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2044 Registered: 3-2004  |
I was about to be rebaptized into the SDA church when God brought my attention to a website about EGW, her plagiarism and letting others write for her. When I saw the facts on that web site, I decided not to be rebaptized, bought a Strong's Bible Concordance and started studying the SDA doctrines. I knew EGW has a strong influence on the SDA doctrine, so I wanted to know what the Bible said about the various doctrines. The rest is history and I am so happy with Jesus now. I just wanted to know what the Bible taught without the influence of EGW. Diana | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1070 Registered: 7-2003  |
Belva, I didn't leave for any of the reasons that are ofte thrown out (by current SDAs) for why someone might leave. In my case, I didn't have an particular doctrinal disagreement, I hadn't had a bad experience with someone, I liked our pastor, I liked our contemporary church plant with its contemporary style, I had good friends at my church, I was very involved, and the list could go on. The Adventist culture was the only one I had ever known and I had absolutely no intention of thought of every leaving.......except for one thing. I had an encounter with God that changed my life and drove me into the Word. As I read the Bible in context and under the direction of the Holy Spirit for the first time, it absolutely ROCKED MY WORLD. I mean the Bible without my veil in place absolutely shook me to my very core and shattered every false foundation I had ever known. That's it. The Spirit working through the Word compelled me to leave. Nothing else could have done it. It was an absolute miracle. I praise God for the way He has blessed my family and me through this journey. May his Holy Name be ever praised. P.S. Do you ever just bow in awe and say, "Why me Lord? Why did you choose me to be blessed in this way? Why did you so graciously remove my veil and not someone else's?" I'll never know why he chose me (at least not in this life), but I am SO thankful He did. Chris | ||
| Jan Registered user Username: Jan Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2005 |
That's a wonderful testimony, Chris. I'm with you on the "Why me?" question. I am so awed, so honored, and so unworthy. An amazing praise song says it all: "I will never be the same again, I'll never return, I've closed the door. . ." Guibox's comments (mentioned above) only remind me of where I used to be. I'm not his Holy Spirit, I can't rip off his veil. But I do find myself occasionally praying for that group and their pathetic stuck-ness. | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 100 Registered: 6-2005 |
Chris, I also had an encouter with God that gave me assurance of salvation about 5 years ago. I have not doubted it since, and it did rock my world, as I was solidly SDA. I didnt start studying other doctrine till about a year ago. yes, I have often wondered why God "removed my veil" in the last few months. I have been grateful and full of praise. In the last few days, the beginning study into predestination/election has had the opposite effect on me. Of course I have only read from the camp supporting this doctrine so far, and havent studied the Word for myself. It has rocked my world in a negative way. I feel the joy just sucked out of me. If predestination/election is true, what's the point in praying for someone to believe? Whats the point of just about any prayer, or sharing the gospel. The whole concept seems unjust, cold, it has left me feeling like an inconsequential pawn. I look at others I have been praying for, and feel despair for them. Maybe God didn't choose them. Oh i see I have gotten way off the thread. If anyone has some suggestions for deeper study of this I would appreciate it. JavaGirl 4excape@bellsouth.net | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 775 Registered: 7-2004 |
As I've mentioned in the past,I'm well aware of the movement of the Holy Spirit in my life, and how patiently Jesus has led me away from error. Nearly 30 years ago I read my way throught the scriptures, beginning first with the New Testament. That was the first time in my life I had done that, and I had decided not to look to the red books for instruction, without having any information about the plagerisms and errors in Ellen's writings. That percolated for a little while -- I married, had a couple of kids (I had slipped away from "the truth" and married outside of the faith). I decided that I had to introduce my kids to Jesus somehow, and Adventism was the only avenue I had known, so I rejoined by profession of faith. We sent our kids to Junior Camp, the local SDA school, and did our best to cooperate with the vegetarian lifestyle when bring food for potluck. There is one difference that was mine, however, and that is that I had been innoculated by the gospel as found in the NT, so I never really returned to the legalism of Adventism. A large part of that had been the fact that Gene Scott was on the cable channel 24/7 when my children were small. I could watch him while I nursed the baby, and later on when I had a little one with an ear infection, he was there to teach me at 2:00 a.m. when there was no hope of sleep that night. I did try to share my faith as I held it, and I was no longer as exclusive in my thinking, but would try to share the SDA distinctives when I thought an opening had been made for me to do so. That happened at work one day. A co-worker and I were talking about current events and how we were both looking forward to Jesus' soon return. I let it be known that I thought the IJ was going on and would soon be finished. She inquired what in the name of *&(&q I was talking about, so I tried to show her from Daniel 8:14. I fell flat on my face. I was convinced I could use her bible, because I had thought that the Word of God was The Word of God, no matter what the translation was. Hers was a Catholic Bible, and was well footnoted. It completely explained the 2300 days as being fulfilled before the time of Christ. I realized that in order to refute what her Bible said I would have to argue from the point of Adventist folklore involving a couple of guys walking through a cornfield after the Great Dissappointment. Just couldn't do it! God is good, however. I went home that day in a fog of disbelief, and there was a flyer in the mail from Life Assurance Ministries. Just as Adventism was pulled out from under me, God gave me the method to help put together the shattered pieces of my understanding. Since reading Dale's books I've also read a number of other books about EGW such as "The White Lie," and a few others. I had to see it from several angles before I was able to accept that the "Founding Fathers of SDAism" had been in error and that it was safe to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. This whole thing unfolded gradually I must admit and I didn't place my rest in grace until I told my kids about Grace, through Faith, and the Completed Work of Salvation in Jesus Christ. You see, I knew that I didn't want to mess up their thinking by telling them that Jesus saves them up until they accept His truth and get baptized, but that they had better be good after that. In no way was I willing to let them live in the agonizing limbo I had as a teen. Even now I have to remember that Jesus does all of the saving and that if he uses me as a mouthpiece, then I am nothing more than that. Toward the end of the third chapter of Romans, Paul makes it clear that we are not to boast about anything except for what Jesus has done for us. And yes, Chris, I live in utter amazement that Christ has opened my eyes. I no longer have to talk myself into doing things for Jesus, I simply can't wait for him to call upon me. (Remember how we had to hand out literature on Sabbath afternoons -- ugh! I only did it to be with my friends, not out of love for Jesus.) All the same, it is all about Jesus, and not about me. I'm simply glad to hang onto his coat tails. Forgive me for the over-long post. I see what Adventists have to say about people who have learned to lean on Christ and not on a particular religion and my heart breaks for them. I never had this kind of assurance until Jesus broke my SDA lenses. After He opened my eyes and salved them with His love, those glasses only served to fog things up, so they were left blessedly beyond repair. | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 104 Registered: 1-2005  |
Wow, I was blown away by the logic of the person who wrote this: "It was his misguided search through scriptures and not his views on standards that he came to the conclusions that he did." To think that a search of scriptures was the cause of his downfall! But then again, some folks do reach some strange conclusions from reading the Bible. But I would venture to guess it is because they are reading the Bible through the eyes of another interpreter. To answer the question, "What started you thinking?" I would have to say that I've been thinking all my life! I've always been a thorn in the side of my SDA worker dad and teachers, professors and Sabbath school members. I don't think I can pinpoint one particular ah-ha moment. It has been a series of baby step ah-ha's for me. However, the veil finally lifted for me in deep clarity last year. Thank God! As for the predestination issue - I've not been a great student of this philosophy, however, at this point in time it is my belief that God has predestined ALL of us to be saved! But we are each left with the power of choice - whether or not we accept this destiny is up to us. I would guess, Java Girl, that if this study has sent you into a tailspin of coldness and darkness, that God's light is not in it. There are really only two texts that talk about predestination: Romans 8:29-30 and Ephesians 1:5,11. It would seem to me that Ephesians 1:5 tells it best: Long ago, even before He made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in His eyes. His unchanging plan has always been to adopt us into His own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. And this gave Him great pleasure..... God's secret plan has now been revealed to us; it is a plan centered on Christ, designed long ago according to His good pleasure." I have to conclude that God's plan was for all the world to have access to His Grace. Over and over Jesus said, ANYONE who believes in Me has eternal life. That is not a narrow descriptor. The idea that there is a special group who are called by God takes you back to an Jewish/SDA belief that they are the chosen, the elect, the remnant. So much for my two cents worth. I'm sure there are others who can explain it all more succinctly and intelligently!  I just don't want you to lose heart, JavaGirl! | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2005 |
I sat in a hotel room one night and instead of flipping channels, I read the book of Hebrews. It hit me clearly that Christ went into the MHP at the time of His ascention, not in 1844. Well, if you don't accept 1844, you can't really accept the IJ...then it was 'can I accept Ellen White as a prophet?' Which leads me to a question, or series of questions, or just rambling... When I started (ie. reading Hebrews), I had no intention of throwing out my SDA beliefs. I knew I could not accept 1844, but I had never considered that (for instance) I might rethink my position on the 7th day Sabbath or any of a number of other things. But as I go along, I honestly wonder if I am being deceived or have a mind-set of 'If the SDA churh is wrong about 1844 what else are they wrong about?' so I look at everything I have believed for over 30 years with a jaundiced eye. I caught myself in a tense discussion today with one of the elders at my church (I used to be the head elder there but refused to accept again because of my doubts about core doctrine). It started with a comment I made about the doctrine of the Trinity - that most of the SDA pioneers did not believe it - which caused him to come up after church to discuss the comment. He wanted my opinion about EGW's stand on the Trinity which led to a discussion of Catholicism being the beast power and prophecy. I made the mistake of saying that I was not sure that I believed that the NT writers were all that concerned about Sabbath worship in that it was only mentioned by Paul incidentally, not directly. You know how things went downhill from there... I guess I am not sure what is truth anymore. I know that Jesus died for my sins, but as an SDA, I have a hard time figuring out now how things all fit together since I have 'kicked the foundation out' from under my old belief system. I read my Bible and the doctrines of pre-destination/election are on every page but it is not even considered since it is 'the hellish torch of Calvinism'...the Bible seems to me to teach the doctrine of eternal security, but where does my Christian walk fit in?...it seems that Paul teaches that God has no preference about what day we worship but this is not what I was raised to believe (it makes me feel like a law-breaker bigtime to consider that the Sabbath is not binding)...EGW says that those people will mass a bunch of texts of Scripture together that appear to support their belief but if it contradicts what our pioneers came to believe in out first 50 years, then we have uderstood the Scriptures incorrectly... I could go on and on. I know many of you have been here. I know I need to keep studying but I am afraid I am getting more and more confused. InSearchOf | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 579 Registered: 7-2004 |
In Search - Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life;no one comes to the Father but through Me...and you will know the truth and the truth will make you free...and when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth..." (John 14:6; 8:32; 16:13). Let Jesus replace the foundation of your old belief system...I believe the words He spoke of being Truth were to turn us from thinking from a system of religion or methods or works to Himself. As far as our Christian walk...? Our Truth will fit it in for us... The more we walk with Him the more we trust in His Word and see His redeeming grace and power. True faith risks everything on God's faithfulness. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 580 Registered: 7-2004 |
Java, I don't believe there are any contradicitons in the Bible, just gaps in our own understanding. I have to believe that both free will and predestination are truths. God's Word is true. I have had a great deal of difficulty wrestling with these concepts because the Bible talks of both as truth. While they seem to contradict, they are both Biblical. Though I cannot understand it I know the day is coming when He appears, I will be like Him, because I will see Him just as He is (1 John 3:2). I think we can go round and round and wonder and worry but in the scheme of what He has in store for us it is of nothing. "And everyone who has this hope fixes on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure." (vs 3) GIVE ME JESUS! | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 776 Registered: 7-2004 |
Regarding predestination, it is my understanding that the word that was translated as predestination could also mean predetermined. For me that changes the meaning slightly. God (and Jesus) predetermined that a way of escape would be made for sinning humanity should they sin. Humanity sinned. The escape route was provided. The drawing call is placed on the hearts of mankind and each individual chooses whether they will respond to that call. Am I wrong about this solution to the predestination problem? | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 581 Registered: 7-2004 |
Belva, Great question...what started my study...? For me it was very basic...I saw Christianity for the very first time in my sheltered SDA life and there wasn't an Adventist in site! I belonged to a very unhappy SDA church with back bitting, gossiping...We enrolled our oldest in a non-denominational Christian school and it was a difference of night and day! Even after starting a Bible study to see what I was missing, it took 7 years for the SDA veil to completely crumble and fall away. The excitment of finally GETTING IT is unexplainable. I can remember sitting at my desk and feeling a physical warmth and knowing I was loved and secure! I still am giddy! "You are My wistnesses," declares the Lord, AAnd My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may KNOW and BELIEVE Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after me." Isaiah 43:10 | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2963 Registered: 12-2003  |
InSearch, I understand your emotions and doubt right now. Without any shadow of doubt I can say to you: keep reading the Bible and praying for God to teach you what He wants you to know. In fact, maybe even make the Bible the only "religious" book you read for a while. All those doubts and questions gradually evaporate im the light of the word of God and the reality of Jesus and His presence. The real source of confusion (and I remember this phenomenon so well!) is continuing exposure to Adventist arguments as you are studying. I've come to the conclusion that Satan really does his best to throw confusion anbd roadblocks in front of us as we learn to trust Jesus and His word. One of the best ways is to throw the old "doctrines of demons" and their deeply ingrained "proofs" before us as we're just becoming aware of what God actually says in His word. JavaGirl, keep studying the Bible. Actually, as InSearchOf says, the doctrine of predestination is all through the Bible--although I would probably phrase it "the doctrine of God's sovereignty". Romans 8, 9, 11, and Ephesians are full of this subject--and they're not the only places. Often similar words are used: called, elect, foreknown, appoints, etc. Further, the whole Bible, including the OT, tells of God's sovereign decisions: He sovereignly called Abraham--a moon worshiper, at that--to father His nation; He appointed Isaac before he was born--and he was a physical impossibility at any rate; He sovereignly chose Jacob over Esau before they were ever born--"Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated", etc. Psalms also is full of God's foreknowledge:God created us in our mother's wombs and knows all our days before one of them comes to be; etc. Revelation also refers to all those whose names have NOT been written in the book of life since the creation of the world. Etc. At the same time, the Bible is also FULL of assurances of our security and salvation. Also, the Bible clearly says we must choose to serve God; choose to live by the Spirit instead of by the sinful nature (Romans 8), to persevere and endure, to give thanks, etc. My personal suggestion is that you study the Bible and ask God to reveal what is truth and to help you know Him in a new way rather than reading theologians on the subject right now. Theologians are sharing their own understandings; the Bible will directly give you God's word. After grounding yourself in what the Bible says, reading theologians as a secondary source and for added insight can be helpful. Right now, though, just study the subject in the Bible. I believe truth is a paradox, and there is a paradox in God's absolute sovereignty, foreknowledge, calling, and election--and our responsibility to make choices that have eternal consequences. This apparent contradiction no longer seems like a contradiction to me; the more I see God's sovereign call on my life, the more I see that I am free to choose Him. I can't explain it, but the Bible is really most assuring and amazing on these subjects! Colleen | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 394 Registered: 7-2000 |
A misguided search of the Scriptures.... I've had that accusation thrown my way several times. It's usually phrased as 'well, that's your interpretation of what it says', or 'you're just using a version that supports your interpretation'. SDA's play fast and loose with the Word because of their view of inspiration. To them, their interpretation is 'truth', because it was verified by a modern 'prophet'. The hardest task is getting them to see that Bible does interpret itself and is very trustworthy on all key points of doctrine. What got me started? A lot of things over several years. A church that was in open warfare between the members. The conflict was over whether a 'conservative' or 'moderate/liberal' viewpoint was going to control the local church. Another ding in the armor was attending a couple of 'Firm Foundation' campmeetings and seeing how they were integrating EGW and the Bible. Quite a few conservative SDA's follow these folks. The conservative wing even came out with the SDA study Bible which is full of EGW commentary and references. The problem I found was that these folks use EGW as the final word as to what the Bible says. She is their authority. I was also troubled by what I saw in other Christians vs. SDA's. SDA's didn't seem to have the joy and peace I found in other Christians--why? Why was it that so many of the programs finding their way into the SDA church originated outside of the SDA church? If the SDA church has the 'truth'---why aren't we originating programs such as MOPS, contemporary worship songs..etc, instead of copying them? So, there was a lot of dissatisfaction with life in the SDA church. My dad belongs to the Church of Christ, so I found a local one and began attending. God is good as He led me to a very evangelical minded C of C. These good folks taught me all of the ins and outs of the New Covenant and what it means to live under grace. Once you understand the New Covenant, the doctrines of Adventism just fall apart. Bill | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 33 Registered: 2-2005 |
My journey out of Adventism started in Sabbath School. I was an Ellen thumper if there ever was one. We were discussing salvation and someone said that she was sure of her salvation. I jumped in and said that Ellen states that no one should ever be sure of their salvation. Actually the Bible won out that day and I became perplexed. The same things started happening at our Bible study group only there I quoted the scriptures and they were quoting Ellen. I was forming a negitive opinion of her and this began my real study. Thank the Lord for those who have gone out before me and have the spirit and fortitude to help the rest of us. Dirk Anderson's and Robert Sanders' web sites help so much in my quest. Dale Ratzlaf has done so much for my family and helped me with the Covenants. A former pastor, who I kept in touch with, left Adventism and joined the pastoral staff of the Damascus Church in Maryland. He and another friend plus Dale Ratzlaf helped me through the Sabbath issues. The Holy Spirit continues to open truth to my wife, me and our family. Praise God. Bob | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 487 Registered: 4-2000  |
Javagirl, God has not found it to be in our best interest to know who he has called or elected to be in his wonderful family. Indeed, Jesus declared, "...that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father" (John 6:65 NASB). As human beings, we must regard everyone we know or meet as potential candidates for heaven. This is our Great Commission by our loving Savior. Not knowing who will respond is absolutely no impediment to Christian evangelism. What an special honor to convey heaven's invitation to those predestined to be saved. Evangelism is somewhat akin to a salesperson taking orders for a highly-respected product. In yet another way, evangelism is one beggar telling another beggar where he found food. I am fully convinced that it is nothing less than "blasphemy" against the Holy Spirit to deny his power in sealing, protecting, leading, and keeping our identity in Christ. We persevere because God preserves us. As Diana would say, "God is awesome!" Sharing our faith immeasureably blesses our souls in the process. The Christian faith is highly worthy of our believing, living, and sharing. It is good to know that heaven has a party whenever Christ in born in a new heart. In awe of His grace, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 488 Registered: 4-2000 |
CRACKING HARD NUTS After reading parts of Dr. Ronald Number's book, "Prophetess of Health," in the late 1970s, I began to doubt the ministry of Ellen White as a true "messenger of the Lord." However, it was not until the late 1990s when I finally surrendered my Adventism to Jesus. I still remember sitting in front of my first computer and reading Dr. Richard Frederick's sermon entitled, "Sabbath in Christ." Within minutes, after beginning to read his sermon online, I was awe-struck with the Biblical truth that Jesus is indeed our True Sabbath Rest. Immediately, I ran upstairs and shared this newly-found, awesome truth with my favorite theologian, my wife Sylvia. This actually happened on a Saturday as well. Amazingly, we were both in agreement. God knew the precise moment to call us out of Adventism. We are certain that we would not have responded at any previous time. The Holy Spirit had fully prepared our hearts to follow his leading. After more than forty years in Adventism, God called us out of a toxic-faith system with a sacred design for our lives. Praise God! Dennis Fischer | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 265 Registered: 5-2004 |
I also came from a background where I never dreamed Iíd ever question "Adventist truths". I was happy, involved, and working so hard to be the right "end time Adventist". I was an Ellen thumper too And it was during the course of a conversation that I ran online to check a quote, and stumbled across Dirk Andersonís site. Which started a process of months of reading. Every link I could find online, every Sabbath/Sunday debate, every article, every Pauline and Gospel book. I also read more Adventist material than ever beforeÖor ever again Through it all God brought me with His steady hand answers to each question I asked. When I felt I was faltering, He supplied strength. When I felt tumultuous doubt, He provided reassurance. For my fears, He became comfort, for my tears, He brought peace. In the years since, He has slowly but surely chipped away at the old SDA mindset, and created in me a new heart. He has fulfilled the old types and shadows I used to cling to. He has provided fellowship and family to fill the gaps in the relationships that have been altered due to leaving. He never changes, He never fails. Just this past weekend I gave Him my reservations and went to our old SDA church with my parents who were visiting. My experience was a blessing in ways I couldnít have imagined. As I thumbed through the materials I had brought with me (to fill the gaps in case I couldnít stand the sermon) I found the bulletin from exactly a year agoÖthe last time we were there. My heart filled with praise for Him who has worked so miraculously to bring me and my husband out of darkness and into His peace. There are still doubts at times, there are still struggles and things to learn, but nothing can compare to KNOWING that God is working in your life, that He provides and that I am His. | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 66 Registered: 4-2005 |
I actually couldn't remember when I started my journey out of Adventism, but Dennis did trigger one memory. I didn't read Numbers book on "Prophetess of Health", but I was visiting WWC, probably for an Alumni event, and one of the faculty gave a book review of the book, said "save your money, don't buy it, just listen to me" and boy, did that rub me the wrong way!! Oh, we can't think for ourselves, or make our own decisions,here at a College event? I was furious. And began to question the doctrines, one by one. It took me a long time, was heartbreaking and wrenching, but it is for all of us--because the kind of people it would hurt so much are the kind of people who would look for what is truth, I believe. I believe the Holy Spirit leads some of us faster than others!!I do thank God that I am free of the burdensome doctrines and can praise Him for saving grace!I guess I can thank the SDA church for proding me to question, and also more recently for the study of Galations with a book that was not published by the church!! | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1037 Registered: 3-2005 |
Javagirl, I would second what Colleen and Dennis said about the election issue. I will share with you, that your expression of negativity with regard to studying the doctrines of predestination were exactly my same feelings, and like InSearchOf stated above, this "evil Calvinism" could never be a belief of mine. But after extensive Bible study, prayer, and the help of great authors like Michael Horton and RC Sproul, then my view slowly changed where now I am in love with God so much more because I now trust his sovereignty much more than I used to. However, don't worry about those doctrines now, do as Colleen suggested, and read your Bible, because the Holy Spirit is the greatest teacher. I have been amazed Java at your growth in the short time you have been on this forum, and it has been great to watch. God bless you. Stan |
