| Author | Message | ||
| Ericbahme Registered user Username: Ericbahme Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2005 |
As I look here on FAF I see a number of regular people who are here. It looks like to me this has become a "safe place" to journey. My question too many of you would be how has FAF helped you? Do you think FAF reaches ìoutsideî to those trying to escape from the bondage they have faced in their former church, or are sites like FAF viewed as heretical and too dangerous to approach? A long time ago (probably this will date me) the Adventist church started an ìofficialî forum on compuserve. I was part of it and it had a very wide voiceÖit wasnít long when the denomination shut it down because it was causing a lot of people to gather in one place and ask questions. It was a wonderful place to journey. Having been away for so long I find myself very removed and ìout of touchî with any issues facing the SDA church today. Do any of you know if there is another ìofficialî place where SDAís gather online and ìfreedom of speechî is encouraged? Those where the days when we challenged voices like Samuele Bacchiocchi direct and everyone got to be a part! Those were part of my seminary days and a critical time when voices of grace challenged my own legalistic thinking. I thank God for those who cared enough to confront, question and challenge. I guess Iím now looking to ìgive backî as one of those voices of grace. Eric | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2047 Registered: 3-2004  |
This is a safe place to ask any questions any one wants to ask. We respect each person. The only dumb question is the one not asked. I got out of Adventism, long ago, even though I occasionally went to church. I officially did not rejoin the SDA church when I found out about EGW. That is when I started studying the SDA beliefs without EGW influence. There are places for SDAs to talk about issues affecting the church. When it comes to EGW, the threads are closed down, but the Bible can be twisted every which way. It is awful. Here we can discuss all kinds of things. Thank you God for this forum and for Richard and Colleen. Diana | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 101 Registered: 6-2005 |
Eric I was definetely warned about coming to these type of sites! (Non-SDA supported). And warned by someone I considered "open" to seeking truth. It shocked me. I was told to carefully "consider who was behind the site", beware of the motives, warned of bitterness etc. I was afraid, yes, of being decieved, of entering the enemy's camp so to speak when I first came. I think I was actually trembling. But I came anyway. I just prayed hard first...I was tired of having questions, and getting sort of run around answers. I enjoy the anonymity of this site for now anyway. I dont have that experience much in my life, certainly not within my own church. I needed a place to be real, to be vulnerable and completely honest. To ask dumb questions as Diana said. I wanted to seek Gods truth. Mostly I was so very lonely. Its a lonely journey to even question your SDA beliefs. I have studied on my own for a long time. My husband doesnt share my journey. My non-SDA friends are supportive, but don't quite "get what the big deal is". I appreciate the people here who understand the scope of the journey, I dearly appreciate a couple of email friends I have made from this site. I havent seen much evidence of bitterness here. Mostly just sadness, and some regret. I certainly didnt come here with the intent of leaving adventism. I was quite defensive in fact, as some will rememeber I am sure  . I seem to be on the course of leaving though. God just doesnt let up! Huge work obstacles have been removed. Some family issues are resolving themselves. The other day I was overwhelmed with grief regarding my SDA church. It lasted for hours, and I couldnt stop the tears. I was grieving the loss of the people, the relationships, the commitments, time, energy, lay mininsty, traditions. I'm not consciously aware of making a decision to leave the SDA church, but God is working things out in very interesting ways. I wish sometimes that I was bitter, or hurt or something, it seems it would make transition easier. I just crave truth, and openness to the leading of the Holy Spirit. I deeply desire praise and worship with others who are like-minded. I cant get that in my church, I have tried and come up empty. So, yes, after all that rambling on, I guess I can say that this has been a safe place to journey. I dont know where I will end up worshipping on this earth. But I know where I will spend eternity. JavaGirl 4excape@bellsouth.net | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 490 Registered: 4-2000  |
JavaGirl, I especially liked your concluding sentence, "But I know where I will spend eternity." As Charles Spurgeon once said, "If my salvation could be taken away from me, I wouldn't enjoy it very much." Dennis Fischer | ||
| Ericbahme Registered user Username: Ericbahme Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2005 |
JavaGirl, thanks for what you shared. That means a lot to me. I can say as one who was an SDA pastor for about 7 years and now a Foursquare Pastor -- there is nothing like being in a grace based enviroment. I am so thankful my family made the switch. It wasn't easy -- but the joy in our church family now is like NOTHING I ever experienced in the SDA church. I can say that it is finally great to be pastoring a healthy place of grace. Let the Holy Spirit guide you -- the HS will NEVER lead you astray! Eric | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 102 Registered: 6-2005 |
Dennis, I understand that quote completely! I lived that way for many years... I just found a Spurgeon book in my own library tonight. Unread....Its called Grace: God's Unmerited Favor. I also found A.W. Tozer, The Divine Conquest, a book someone gave my husband in 1983! And written in 1950. Ive heard both of these authors mentioned, so I am looking forward to some meaty reading. | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2005 |
Javagirl, I have read many quotes by A.W. Tozer and have found them to be insightful, but have never had opportunity to read an entire book. When you get into the books, post a comment now and then to let us know how you like them! I understand your feelings regarding the sorrow and grief regarding the SDA church. It seems that I spend most of my waking hours and have trouble sleeping at night just trying to assimilate all the new information and trying to cope with the ramifications to my belief system. Having lived for so long under the burden of 'you should never say you are saved', it is hard (for me at least) to grasp what God's grace really means for me and how it can totally change how we feel about God and our standing with Him. God bless you! InSearchOf | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 264 Registered: 5-2004 |
I was terrified to come here also. But I also came anyway. For months I just read, and read, and read. I desperately needed answers and my attempts to get them from SDA sources left me knowing I wasn't getting the whole picture. FAF is my life line. I don't always post alot, just kind of check in when I can. But it is such a blessing to be able to come here and share experiences with those who are going through the same thing. There have been times when I've thought I was losing my mind because what I'm doing goes against everything I was raised to believe. When everyone you know doubts you and believes you're doing the wrong thing, it makes you doubt yourself. But through it all God has never forsaken me. He has led me beside the still waters, and restored my soul. I am so thankful for His leading and my exodus. I praise Him for being my Savior - completely, the one who guarentees my salvation. And I thank Him for bringing FAF into my life! | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 702 Registered: 1-2003 |
Well, I don't know if I did the right thing or not...but I didn't attend my SDA preacher brother's sermon on Sabbath. He was here visiting and wanted us to find him a place to preach and so he found a place and then tremendous pressure was put on me to attend...I suppose it might have been the sermon to bring me back into the fold???!!! I didn't go. My brother went, my niece went, my mother went, but I didn't go. The Friday night before, my husband said, "Don't you feel bad...don't you think you should go?" I said, "No." But then I felt bad and said, "Ok, if every one wants to go and thinks I am being a bad sister, let's go." But none of them (my husband) really wanted to go. So I didn't. Now I am getting grief from my mother over it. I told her I didn't want to be a hippocrite. Still, I feel bad now. Anyone been in this situation? | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 104 Registered: 10-2005 |
Eric - It is very comforting to me knowing that there are former pastors and leaders here. I'm only a few months from not looking at anything that might oppose adventism out of fear. But my human nature, curiosity got the best of me and I looked anyway (at Mark Martins website). And suddenly my eyes opened. I'm saved now and was baptized again two weeks ago. I was baptized adventist 16 years ago. Looking at this forum and sharing is helping me. I appreciate all of the responses I've gotten here and enjoy reading some of the posts. I've learned some things about myself that I didn't realize. I sent a letter to the church asking them to remove me from the books. I received a response from the pastor saying that the board was meeting on the 10th of November and never heard back. I thought about calling the pastor, but I really don't want to feel that I need to discuss any issues with him, and I know he will try to. I realize that the adventist leadership has an answer for everything. So I want to move on and learn what my new life is about in Christ, in Grace and the Holy Spirit. The false doctrine that has bound me for so many years is mostly gone now. I don't want anymore false doctrine to get in the way of my new found peace. I appreciate reading the discussions and studies because it is helping me to understand what the truth is and that I'm not alone. I just want to Praise Him, Jesus, for His Goodness and Greatness! Bless you! Lynne | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1195 Registered: 7-2003  |
For me, as a never-was SDA, this site has been invaluable in helping affirm or correct my understanding of SDA literature (propaganda) I was reading. I came here fearing for the future for my infant son who has an SDA father, and found that most of what I had come to believe about the SDA teachings were accurate, and some things far beyond anything I could have ever had the time to research. Some things you can only learn by experience. I never get tired of "fellowshipping" with other believers and learning lessons from those who have walked this journey. Certainly as a "never was", I don't have a lot of the baggage, but it helps me recognize things in the SDA members of my son's family that hopefully will help me guide him in the future. I honestly don't know what I would have done had I not found this site for support. It truly is a God-thing. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 584 Registered: 7-2004 |
Pheeki, I am confident that because of your love for your Savior, God will turn this situation with your family to His glory. Leave it in His hands and there is no need for guilt or worry. His promises are true. We can stand on them anytime! "For we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him..." Romans 8:28 | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 585 Registered: 7-2004 |
Eric, I believe there are several sites available for SDAs to gather in a forum together. Several people here on FAF go to these sites periodically. I cannot remember the names but hopefully Belva or Ric or Jeremy will pop in on this conversation and share those addresses. I personally have to stay away from those sites because they tend to really put a very dark cloud over my head. I live in a SDA-ville, WA and my children remain in the SDA school here. It has been a difficult journey and I have to stay as Christ-focused as possible to manage. That is why I cling mightily to my non-denominational Bible study and also to FAF. I praise God daily for His Word and for His leading in the lives of Colleen and Richard Tinker. In His sovereignty, He knew the only way through my dense little brain! He saw to my needs way before I even began this journey. P.S. Eric, welcome to FAF...it is wonderful to "hear" your voice. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 703 Registered: 1-2003 |
Dd, thanks for the encouragement. I too still have stong SDA ties, as you can see. My in-laws were very strongly trying to convince me to send my oldest daughter to Academy, 2000 miles away. I have several reasons for not wanting her to go...#1-I don't believe in boarding academy...I don't believe other people should raise your kids unless there are extinuating circumstances. #2-I wouldn't be able to attend any of her games or functions. #3-It's SDA. She has had enough indoctrination. Sometimes I get so discouraged...I feel like SDAism is this big monster creeping up on me, like a shadow behind me and I can't get away. Does anyone else feel this way? | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 373 Registered: 7-2004  |
For me, reading about the similarities of experiences and emotions help me feel far less alone. Particularly before I personally knew other people who were out. It still remains a source of strength to hear from other people who have similar shared experiences and survived to talk about it. It is also healthy to be able to see and even participate in disagreements (like the relative value of PDL or arminian/calvinism discussion a while back) without a sense of judgment of a person's Spiritual health based on their understanding or approach to a subject. Seeing the acceptance of such diversity is a healing factor as well. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 780 Registered: 7-2004 |
FAF has given me a voice and a willingness to speak my position. I've learned so much from people on FAF. I know that I am interacting with former pastors, scholars, minutemen/women--normal folk who have undergone an intense spiritual experience. Thank you for welcoming me and my meanderings. You have allowed me to study out topics right here on-line. When we were posting on R/S this site was a place to return to while I licked my wounds and healed for a moment. It's like you were willing to give me a cup of coffee and a pat on the back, maybe even a meal, then fortified with that I was able to go back into the battle until I was banned for good. I mostly spend my time at home alone, and the people here are the people I reach out to. You come into my living room, share your hearts with me, help me to sort out scriptural information, and point out where some of my continuing demons came from. Believe me, when the source of misinformation is named, and we all get the chance to discuss it roundtable fashion, as we do here, we pull the teeth out of all of our dragons. I thank God daily for all of you, and I look forward to meeting you all, either here, or around the Throne of God. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1035 Registered: 3-2005 |
Amen Belva to your last post. And also I agree with Ric's statements about the freedom to agree to disagree on many hotly debated topics that he mentioned. Again, Eric, a hearty FAF welcome to you. It is interesting that you are now a four-square pastor. I guess Amy Semple Macpherson didn't scare you away! I don't know a whole lot about her, but she has been compared to Ellen White. But, Jack Hayford, is a 4-square pastor, and I just love his beautiful hymn "Worship His Majesty" FAF has been a great experience for me. I like interacting with everyone on here, and it has been a great source of spiritual growth. This is especially true in the weekly Friday night FAF Bible studies led by Richard and Colleen (I've missed two in a row for the first time now, and I really miss the fellowship if I am not there.) This does not mean we all agree on all points of doctrine, but the common bond of fellowship rejoicing in our salvation by grace alone, and our common background makes this fellowship so enriching. That is true on the forum as well. Stan | ||
| Ericbahme Registered user Username: Ericbahme Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2005 |
Wow, thanks to all of you for sharing! I hope more will add to this discussion. I can see how important this place is in the journey into a land of grace! Riverfonz, the great thing about Foursquare is they didn't publish Amy's writings in red books or in black. I love the fact that Foursquare centers on the four main points of the gospel, Jesus our Healer, Jesus our Soon Coming king, Jesus our Baptizer, and Jesus our Savior. I sort of figured that any organization that totally built around Jesus was good for me and my family! I can't thank all of you enough for your warm welcome. Colleen took a few risks early on with me in publishing some of my articles and I'm sure took some heat (especially the one on no longer returning tithe to the denomination). I still get letters on that article. Thanks Colleen for your bold steps! I felt anything that Richard and Colleen were a part of was something I should also check out. Great to be with you all and I look forward to seeing how this might be used to help others find the wonderful freedom of JESUS! | ||
| Taybie Registered user Username: Taybie Post Number: 101 Registered: 4-2005 |
When I initally left the SDA church, I was shunned. I was gossiped about and confronted by some zealous adventists. I was told I'd go to hell and that I was a hereitic. I became bitter and mean. I did not want one ally outside of Jesus. I trusted NO ONE. Not family or friends. i felt so helplessly alone. The early months were quite hard. But Jesus. Oh Jesus has been everything He promised and more! It has been over a year since I became free from the bondage of that belief system and I am SO different! I come to this forum and mainly read...but every now and again, I will post when I am most passionate about something. mainly, I glean. Though there are a few times I have not completely agreed with how a person may have worded something, this forum is mainly a place of love and acceptance. I am free to be me, even with the anonymity (sp). I am currently struggling with a somewhat dragging "friendship" with someone I have called my best friend for 5 years, (who has been exposed to the lies of the sda church, but does nothing, at least not from what I can see) and it is here I come for solace outside of my prayer closet. The FAF communtiy here has become another extension of my family. Simply put - this place is truly a blessing to me. (Message edited by Taybie on November 30, 2005) | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 154 Registered: 4-2005 |
Insearchof, A.W. Tozer was an amazing man. He was a self-taught man. He only attended one day, his enrollment day, in High School. No formal education past the 8th grade. He worked to help support the family, loved animals, loved reading and through discipline and never-ending study, became one of the most sought-after speakers. Billie Graham even sought Tozer's counsel. He heard a street preacher with a strong German accent say, "If you don't know how to be saved, just call on God, saying 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner,' and God will hear you." Young Tozer went home, climbed up into the attic and spent the afternoon. No one knows what took place in that attic, but he emerged a new creation in Christ Jesus. His pursuit of God had begun. He became, no doubt, the most popular minister/preacher for the Christian and Missionary Alliance Church in Chicago. When I read about his habit of laying prostrate on the floor, his face on a piece of paper to prevent him from breathing in carpet dust, and would remain there for hours in prayer and often in nothing but worshipping God; I knew I had to find out what this man had to say. I am now completing "In Pursuit of God" the Life of A.W. Tozer, by James L. Snyder. He truly was a man of God. His most popular work is: "The Pursuit of God - The Human Thirst for the Divine" I also recommend "Keys to The Deeper Life," revised and expanded and "The Knowledge of the Holy." A classic that is easy reading and precious is C.H. Spurgeon's "All of Grace" - The Infinite Love of God. "Knowing God" by J.I. Packer is a wonderful book that takes you on an intimate, Biblical-based approach to our Eternal Father. Tozer's great passion was to know God intimately. He ever wanted more and more of God and his life reflected the glory of his journey after God. I cannot imagine you can read any of Tozer's writings without being blessed, inspired and convicted to press on with greater force, in your own quest to draw nigh to God. I try first to buy the majority of my books online from the Used and Out of Print links. I have not been disappointed yet. One more suggestion, Insearchof, if you want pure spiritual delight and can afford around $30 get the two volumn "unabridged" set of C.H. Spurgeon's "The Treasury of David" - a commentary by Spurgeon and other theologians of his day, on the Psalms. Rich! Rich! Rich! But the print font is quite small. I can only say that once I pick it up and begin to read, I can hardly lay it aside to even get something to eat! It grabs you; because it is introvenous feeding of the highest vitamin/mineral-filled spiritual food available. Just some suggestions. Remember, "the impulse to pursue God originates with God." It is God drawing you closer to Himself through His Spirit dwelling within you. Yielding to and going with that impulse can only lead to rich blessing, deeper understanding and progress on the path of holiness. God bless you, Jess | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 155 Registered: 4-2005 |
Insearchof, Regarding your comments about the barriers put before us by the SADventist Church pertaining to being told to never say "I am saved," I would like to say that, the teaching of "once saved, always saved" is one of the grandest of Biblical teachings. Let no one rob you of the joy of knowing that you will be saved forever. What a blessing it is to be able to make a decision once and for all about your eternal destiny. How good it is to be able to commit your life to Christ, and to know that as soon as you do you will always be saved and will be guarded by the power of God unto the full salvation to be revealed when Christ returns. When we say, "Once saved, always saved," that does not only mean being saved from the guilt of sin, so that the saved will escape the wrath of hell. It means also to be saved from the power of sin. Salvation is both salvation from the guilt of sin and the power of sin. It is both. It is impossible for anyone to be saved from the guilt of sin without being saved from the power of sin. Praise God from whom ALL blessings flow. Praise the Father for His electing love. Praise the Son for His atoning death. Praise the Holy Spirit for His irresistible work. Praise the Triune God for preserving us to the end. Praise God! Soli Deo Gloria Jess |
